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Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs

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Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 16 Jul 2008, 15:35
I would be potentially interested in working in London after my MBA. How does it concretely work? How do you get recruited for the European (or Asian) offices when studying in the US? Are the people present at the campus recruiting for the entire company globally? Or do you have to look for a traineeship / FT job yourself?

Any insights there?

Thanks for the input and sorry if I missed this in another topic!
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 16 Jul 2008, 16:18
My understanding from people I've spoken to at a number of consulting firms (and presumably banks are similar, but maybe someone here knows for sure) say that it depends on the school. Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton are probably recruited globally; the lower-ranked your school, the more local your recruiting. However, that doesn't mean that you can't get into Europe from a lesser school--it just means that you have to do more legwork to get in. Provided, of course, that you have the skills.
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2008, 03:12
oh London in my #1 desired destination post-MBA :)

I have heard that recruiting for international full-time positions in not very very difficult, but normally it is a seperate process fror the domestic recruiting. So for example you have to apply for McKinsey - international positions, and McKinsey - domestic positions.

But I have heard it is very very difficult to get an international internship mostly because of work visa issues. Because we are US students we have the right to work during the summer between our 2 years in school, but if you want to go to another country for internship you will have to get work authorization for there ... which might be difficult :(
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2008, 04:26
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oh London in my #1 desired destination post-MBA :)

I have heard that recruiting for international full-time positions in not very very difficult, but normally it is a seperate process fror the domestic recruiting. So for example you have to apply for McKinsey - international positions, and McKinsey - domestic positions.

But I have heard it is very very difficult to get an international internship mostly because of work visa issues. Because we are US students we have the right to work during the summer between our 2 years in school, but if you want to go to another country for internship you will have to get work authorization for there ... which might be difficult :(


I'm assuming you're mentioning the process for consulting, probably fairly similar to IB. Work visa ca be a pain (and I'm remaining VERY diplomatic), especially in the US; since I'm an EU international I have the opposite problem to you :)

As much as I'd love to live in NY, there are too many issues atm that make things difficult / annoying for me and my SO to live there, so I'll probably go for London...
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2008, 05:33
Audio wrote:
I would be potentially interested in working in London after my MBA. How does it concretely work? How do you get recruited for the European (or Asian) offices when studying in the US? Are the people present at the campus recruiting for the entire company globally? Or do you have to look for a traineeship / FT job yourself?

Any insights there?

Thanks for the input and sorry if I missed this in another topic!


Audio

From what I talked to people working in London and current students, there are 2 ways:
1) Banks that go hire on-campus
2) Tracks for interviews

I don't know how Wharton works, but for sure you will have opportunities. I know people from GSB, Stern, Wharton, HBS, CBS and other schools working in London for Goldman, Lehman, Barclays, DB, CS, SG, etc. As you are an European Citizen, for you it would be even easier.
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2008, 06:18
yeah the work visa situation in the US is very ugly. I don't want to stay in the US on a work visa (as a slave, and pay taxes that I won't ever benefit from), but it is actually really easy to get UK work visa and I would have better human right there :)), it is also much closer to home so I am targeting the UK post MBA :).

It is just very difficult to get a summer internship in the UK, and therefore I would be one step behind when I recruit for full time positions in London :(. But if you are a EU national you won't have much troubles getting an internship in the EU and you can easily turn the internship into a full-time position :). There is very very few good MBA programs in Europe, and I think there is a shortage of MBAs there. Wharton is a great school and from Wharton it would be 100 times easier to get a IB position in London rather than NYC

Audio wrote:
Darden2010 wrote:
oh London in my #1 desired destination post-MBA :)

I have heard that recruiting for international full-time positions in not very very difficult, but normally it is a seperate process fror the domestic recruiting. So for example you have to apply for McKinsey - international positions, and McKinsey - domestic positions.

But I have heard it is very very difficult to get an international internship mostly because of work visa issues. Because we are US students we have the right to work during the summer between our 2 years in school, but if you want to go to another country for internship you will have to get work authorization for there ... which might be difficult :(


I'm assuming you're mentioning the process for consulting, probably fairly similar to IB. Work visa ca be a pain (and I'm remaining VERY diplomatic), especially in the US; since I'm an EU international I have the opposite problem to you :)

As much as I'd love to live in NY, there are too many issues atm that make things difficult / annoying for me and my SO to live there, so I'll probably go for London...

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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2008, 08:54
Thanks Kwam and Darden2010 for the info.

Generally speaking, I think it's a real pity that governments make it so hard for people to work in other countries, especially in such a global marketplace: talk about encouraging diversity...
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2008, 10:42
One note specifically for London (I plan to work there after my MBA as well) - if you attend certain US business schools, you automatically get enough 'points' to qualify for the highly skilled migrant programme, which makes the visa thing a lot easier (not that most large firms who employ MBAs have trouble getting you a visa, but it would make it easier should you want to move w/o securing a job first).

http://www.hsmp.uk.com/
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2008, 11:58
I think that the HSMP is being phased out in 2008... I don't think it will be as difficult to get a work permit as in the US, but I believe that the MBA = UK Visa equation won't be valid anymore
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 20 Jul 2008, 09:59
Cereals is right, the HSMP's old MBA provision is no more and everything has moved to a points-based system now.

Nonetheless it will still be relatively easy for folks under 30 who made more than GBP40,000 a year before their MBAs and speak English to get a UK work permit.

There's a points calculator at http://www.hsmp.uk.com/ that tells you how many points your background will earn you.
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 20 Jul 2008, 15:04
Audio wrote:
I would be potentially interested in working in London after my MBA. How does it concretely work? How do you get recruited for the European (or Asian) offices when studying in the US? Are the people present at the campus recruiting for the entire company globally? Or do you have to look for a traineeship / FT job yourself?

Any insights there?

Thanks for the input and sorry if I missed this in another topic!



An MBA from a top 20 school (there is actually a list of about 50 schools) enables you to work in the UK for a year through the Highly Skilled Migrant Worker (HSMP) program. HSMP is now called something else now but it's pretty much the same thing. You need to go to the Home Office web-site and download and submit the relevant forms. As proof of evidence, you need to submit your degree certificate and an offical copy of your transcripts. It will cost you £750. This would allow you to work in the UK. After a year you can reapply for an HSMP under the points based system.

If you're looking to work for a managment consultancy or an IB job, I'm sure you won't have any trouble landing one. Most of the time the company will gladly sponsor your work-permit. If it's a smaller company you want to join, then the HSMP route may be the best way to go about that.

I just want to add a little warning for most people who want to work in the UK or in Europe in general. Taxes are INCREDIBLY high out here. (VAT is 17.5% and everything is about 25% more than it is in the US). Also this continent is a lot more socialist than most people think and after living here you may realize that this isn't what you had signed up for. Prices in London are byond compare (unless you're from Oslo or something) and you need to earn a lot more to live the same lifestyle you would in the US. Salaries in London are high but not high enough to make up for the difference in cost.

Also, US Citizens have to pay tax on their GLOBAL income. So after paying 40% tax on all income over £35,000, you may still owe money to the US government. You may want to check up on that as well. There may be double taxation treaties between the two countries but I don't know enough about this.
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 20 Jul 2008, 22:08
Legend wrote:
Audio wrote:
I would be potentially interested in working in London after my MBA. How does it concretely work? How do you get recruited for the European (or Asian) offices when studying in the US? Are the people present at the campus recruiting for the entire company globally? Or do you have to look for a traineeship / FT job yourself?

Any insights there?

Thanks for the input and sorry if I missed this in another topic!



An MBA from a top 20 school (there is actually a list of about 50 schools) enables you to work in the UK for a year through the Highly Skilled Migrant Worker (HSMP) program. HSMP is now called something else now but it's pretty much the same thing. You need to go to the Home Office web-site and download and submit the relevant forms. As proof of evidence, you need to submit your degree certificate and an offical copy of your transcripts. It will cost you £750. This would allow you to work in the UK. After a year you can reapply for an HSMP under the points based system.

If you're looking to work for a managment consultancy or an IB job, I'm sure you won't have any trouble landing one. Most of the time the company will gladly sponsor your work-permit. If it's a smaller company you want to join, then the HSMP route may be the best way to go about that.

I just want to add a little warning for most people who want to work in the UK or in Europe in general. Taxes are INCREDIBLY high out here. (VAT is 17.5% and everything is about 25% more than it is in the US). Also this continent is a lot more socialist than most people think and after living here you may realize that this isn't what you had signed up for. Prices in London are byond compare (unless you're from Oslo or something) and you need to earn a lot more to live the same lifestyle you would in the US. Salaries in London are high but not high enough to make up for the difference in cost.

Also, US Citizens have to pay tax on their GLOBAL income. So after paying 40% tax on all income over £35,000, you may still owe money to the US government. You may want to check up on that as well. There may be double taxation treaties between the two countries but I don't know enough about this.


You can only exclude ~$85000 of foreign earned income from US taxes. Whatever value exceeds that amount is taxed not only in the foreign country, but also by the US.
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2008, 01:51
Legend wrote:
Audio wrote:
I would be potentially interested in working in London after my MBA. How does it concretely work? How do you get recruited for the European (or Asian) offices when studying in the US? Are the people present at the campus recruiting for the entire company globally? Or do you have to look for a traineeship / FT job yourself?

Any insights there?

Thanks for the input and sorry if I missed this in another topic!



An MBA from a top 20 school (there is actually a list of about 50 schools) enables you to work in the UK for a year through the Highly Skilled Migrant Worker (HSMP) program. HSMP is now called something else now but it's pretty much the same thing. You need to go to the Home Office web-site and download and submit the relevant forms. As proof of evidence, you need to submit your degree certificate and an offical copy of your transcripts. It will cost you £750. This would allow you to work in the UK. After a year you can reapply for an HSMP under the points based system.

If you're looking to work for a managment consultancy or an IB job, I'm sure you won't have any trouble landing one. Most of the time the company will gladly sponsor your work-permit. If it's a smaller company you want to join, then the HSMP route may be the best way to go about that.

I just want to add a little warning for most people who want to work in the UK or in Europe in general. Taxes are INCREDIBLY high out here. (VAT is 17.5% and everything is about 25% more than it is in the US). Also this continent is a lot more socialist than most people think and after living here you may realize that this isn't what you had signed up for. Prices in London are byond compare (unless you're from Oslo or something) and you need to earn a lot more to live the same lifestyle you would in the US. Salaries in London are high but not high enough to make up for the difference in cost.

Also, US Citizens have to pay tax on their GLOBAL income. So after paying 40% tax on all income over £35,000, you may still owe money to the US government. You may want to check up on that as well. There may be double taxation treaties between the two countries but I don't know enough about this.


Haha I loved your socialism bashing! :-D It's true though; I don't want to get into a political debate, but Europe is definitively more left wing than the US - Democrats would be considered here as a strong right wing party. As for taxes, I live in Belgium, one of the most taxed countries in the world (I lose almost 50% of my monthly salary in taxes, bonuses are taxed at more than 60%), so the UK is like a fiscal paradise for me!

Prices are ridiculously high in London (about 25% higher than in NY if you look at the World Bank study I uploaded in another topic), but with an IB salary it should be ok. Actually, are the salaries the same in NY as in London? Or are the London salaries higher in order to compensate for the difference in cost of living?
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2008, 07:52
One thing I was thinking of is loans reimbursement.

Let's suppose you land a job in the US post MBA that pays you $120K. Let's assume you basically spend $60K a year, and pay $30K a year in taxes. This leaves you $30K to payoff your loans each year.

Suppose you could land the same job in the UK, probably paying you GBP 120K. Having lived in London for a year, I believe that what would cost you $60K would cost you at most GBP 60K in London. Let's assume your taxes are 35% instead of 25%. So you are left with 120K - 60K - 42K = GBP 18K roughly equivalent to $36K every year to pay off your loans.

My point is that even with very conservative parameters, you may end up in London with more cash to pay off your loans in dollars than you would in the US, at a comparable job...

Now, probably many of these assumptions may be flawed, so feel welcome to call me names :wink:
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2008, 11:19
CerealsMBA wrote:
One thing I was thinking of is loans reimbursement.

Let's suppose you land a job in the US post MBA that pays you $120K. Let's assume you basically spend $60K a year, and pay $30K a year in taxes. This leaves you $30K to payoff your loans each year.

Suppose you could land the same job in the UK, probably paying you GBP 120K. Having lived in London for a year, I believe that what would cost you $60K would cost you at most GBP 60K in London. Let's assume your taxes are 35% instead of 25%. So you are left with 120K - 60K - 42K = GBP 18K roughly equivalent to $36K every year to pay off your loans.

My point is that even with very conservative parameters, you may end up in London with more cash to pay off your loans in dollars than you would in the US, at a comparable job...

Now, probably many of these assumptions may be flawed, so feel welcome to call me names :wink:


I'm not sure that your base salary will be GBP 120k. If I look at the Wharton salary stats, you earn more or less the same thing all over the world, so GBP 120k seems a lot. Could be wrong though, but it's a good question: are there significant differences between the packages offered by these major financial centres? Are the salaries higher in London in order to compensate the higher cost of living?
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2008, 11:27
CerealsMBA wrote:
One thing I was thinking of is loans reimbursement.

Let's suppose you land a job in the US post MBA that pays you $120K. Let's assume you basically spend $60K a year, and pay $30K a year in taxes. This leaves you $30K to payoff your loans each year.

Suppose you could land the same job in the UK, probably paying you GBP 120K. Having lived in London for a year, I believe that what would cost you $60K would cost you at most GBP 60K in London. Let's assume your taxes are 35% instead of 25%. So you are left with 120K - 60K - 42K = GBP 18K roughly equivalent to $36K every year to pay off your loans.

My point is that even with very conservative parameters, you may end up in London with more cash to pay off your loans in dollars than you would in the US, at a comparable job...

Now, probably many of these assumptions may be flawed, so feel welcome to call me names :wink:


I'm not sure where you're getting your GBP 120K figure. That is ~ USD $240K!!! I cannot fathom that the same exact job in London pays double that of the same job in NYC. I took a brief look at the 2007 placement reports for CBS and LBS grads and the median figures were $100k and $116k , respectively. I'm not so sure if your other figures are correct either.
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2008, 13:20
Well, you guys are probably right about my mystical expectations of a salary in London... But consultants I know make 80-85 thousand GBP a year, and that's without an MBA. I even hired a management accountant with a Bachelor for 70 thousand GBP. So $110K sounds very very low...

Anyway, if anyone has more accurate numbers, that would be great so we see whether there is an advantage in working in London or not...
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2008, 15:01
That figure will likely be after a bonus. And if they have a bit of experience, that is the level you join at with your MBA.
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2008, 22:36
3underscore wrote:
That figure will likely be after a bonus. And if they have a bit of experience, that is the level you join at with your MBA.


I think it might be best to never project earnings with bonus factored in. Especially during these times...
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs [#permalink] New post 22 Jul 2008, 05:28
Just checked, average LBS salaries are around GBP 60k, which is roughly USD 120k. The question is: how does this translate in NY prices? My guess is that it is roughly equivalent to USD 95k in NY (25% cost difference more or less). Plus this does not include the essential tax issue (I don't know the tax rate in both locations). Does anyone have a better take on the issue?
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Re: Recruiting for Europe from US MBAs   [#permalink] 22 Jul 2008, 05:28
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