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Relative pronoun modifier

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Relative pronoun modifier [#permalink] New post 14 Jul 2014, 13:01
Hello All

This is my first post in the verbal forum as I am really struggling. :? I was wondering the use of the relative pronoun modifier. E.g.: which, that, who, etc.

For example, please could you tell me whether the following is correct?

1.) I like the girl in the room, who is young and beautiful.
- “who” is specific enough to modify “the girl”, but the relative pronoun “who” is not immediately next to the modified noun/

2.) I like the girl in the room, the girl who is young and beautiful.
- I guess this is grammatically correct but “the girl” after the comma is redundant.

3.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, which the apples are too sour and expensive.
- “the apples” follows the relative pronoun and forms a complete clause. Is it correct?

4.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, the apples which are too sour and expensive.
- Similar to #3 but “the apples” is in front of “which”

I hope the examples are good enough to illustrate the problem. These are the questions on the top of my head for a long time. It would be very helpful if any of you could comment on it. Many thanks for your help :-D :-D
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Re: Relative pronoun modifier [#permalink] New post 15 Jul 2014, 09:10
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Please follow the forum rules and post the question in the right section of the forum. General questions go in general section of verbal forum

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Re: Relative pronoun modifier [#permalink] New post 16 Jul 2014, 03:54
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My 2 cents:

1.) I like the girl in the room, who is young and beautiful.
This one is correct, but it depends on available options as well. In some official problems you may found sentence with such usage inferior compared to OA.

2.) I like the girl in the room, the girl who is young and beautiful.
Absolute phrase modifier are powerful modifier. you are specifically pointing to that girl and modifying it separately and so no ambiguity exists at all.

3.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, which the apples are too sour and expensive.
"which the apples" sounds incorrect. any one of which or the apples can act as subject.
Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, which are too sour and expensive. (incorrect) noun apples is placed very far from which.
Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, the apples are too sour and expensive. (run on)
Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, and the apples are too sour and expensive. (correct)


4.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, the apples which are too sour and expensive.
Sentence has absolute phrase modifier. "the apples which...", but I would prefer to user "the apples that are..."
which introduced non essential information separated by comma, whereas that would provide essential information, if used.

There are many articles available on gmatclub from various experts. refer following link. I hope articles will help you further.
e-gmat-s-all-sc-topics-consolidated-144985.html
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Re: Relative pronoun modifier [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2014, 13:33
PiyushK wrote:
My 2 cents:

1.) I like the girl in the room, who is young and beautiful.
This one is correct, but it depends on available options as well. In some official problems you may found sentence with such usage inferior compared to OA.

2.) I like the girl in the room, the girl who is young and beautiful.
Absolute phrase modifier are powerful modifier. you are specifically pointing to that girl and modifying it separately and so no ambiguity exists at all.

3.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, which the apples are too sour and expensive.
"which the apples" sounds incorrect. any one of which or the apples can act as subject.
Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, which are too sour and expensive. (incorrect) noun apples is placed very far from which.
Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, the apples are too sour and expensive. (run on)
Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, and the apples are too sour and expensive. (correct)


4.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, the apples which are too sour and expensive.
Sentence has absolute phrase modifier. "the apples which...", but I would prefer to user "the apples that are..."
which introduced non essential information separated by comma, whereas that would provide essential information, if used.

There are many articles available on gmatclub from various experts. refer following link. I hope articles will help you further.
e-gmat-s-all-sc-topics-consolidated-144985.html


Hello PiyushK,

Thanks very much for your comment. I found most of your comments from other posts extremely useful when I was studying, but I can't believe you are actually answering my questions this time!

Your reply matches my thought after revising a lot of SC questions. However, it is very important to obtain a confirmation. Otherwise, I will have to go through the OG again to find specific examples to prove I am correct.

+1 kudo for you! I wish I can give you more! :lol:

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Relative pronoun modifier [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2014, 23:54
gordonf35 wrote:
Hello PiyushK,

Thanks very much for your comment. I found most of your comments from other posts extremely useful when I was studying, but I can't believe you are actually answering my questions this time!

Your reply matches my thought after revising a lot of SC questions. However, it is very important to obtain a confirmation. Otherwise, I will have to go through the OG again to find specific examples to prove I am correct.

+1 kudo for you! I wish I can give you more! :lol:

Gordon


Thanks Gordonf35, I believe that knowledge increases with sharing. I am happy to know that you found my comments helpful.
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Re: Relative pronoun modifier [#permalink] New post 19 Jul 2014, 15:07
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All four sentences have problems!

1.) I like the girl in the room, who is young and beautiful.
I see what you're saying about "who," but from the position of the modifier, it still seems like you're trying to describe the room. If "the girl in the room" clearly refers to a particular person, like "the Queen of Spain," then you could say that the "who" part modifies that whole noun phrase. In a larger context, this could certainly happen. ("There are two girls--one in the room and one out. I like the girl in the room, who is young and beautiful.") However, since a GMAT SC will always consist of a single sentence, this doesn't work so well.

2.) I like the girl in the room, the girl who is young and beautiful.
The second "the girl" isn't redundant, as it fixes the problem in #1 above. If the GMAT were going to use this construction, it would probably use a long dash rather than a comma. (See, for instance, SC #95 in the 2nd edition Verbal Review.) However, this is really too much complexity for such a simple thought, and I don't see the GMAT presenting us with a choice like this. We'd be better off with "I like the young, beautiful girl in the room."

3.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, which the apples are too sour and expensive.
"Which" has to modify a noun. If you continue with a clause ("The apples are . . . "), you no longer have a modifier. Also, "which" should be modifying "house." This is 100% incorrect, and would never constitute an acceptable English sentence, on the GMAT or elsewhere. [ [Other than that, I love it. :P ]

4.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, the apples which are too sour and expensive.
This is not similar to #3 but to #2, with all the same problems. (It's too complex for the simple thought it's expressing, and the GMAT would probably use a long dash.) I'll also second Piyush's point about "that" vs. "which." In this sentence (as, perhaps, in 1-3), it would work better to link with "because." "Peter hates to buy the apples sold at the market near his house because they are too sour and expensive."
(Notice that I made the first part more specific--"the apples sold at the market"--because otherwise "they" would refer to all apples, rather than just those at the market.)
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Relative pronoun modifier [#permalink] New post 22 Jul 2014, 13:59
DmitryFarber wrote:
All four sentences have problems!

1.) I like the girl in the room, who is young and beautiful.
I see what you're saying about "who," but from the position of the modifier, it still seems like you're trying to describe the room. If "the girl in the room" clearly refers to a particular person, like "the Queen of Spain," then you could say that the "who" part modifies that whole noun phrase. In a larger context, this could certainly happen. ("There are two girls--one in the room and one out. I like the girl in the room, who is young and beautiful.") However, since a GMAT SC will always consist of a single sentence, this doesn't work so well.

2.) I like the girl in the room, the girl who is young and beautiful.
The second "the girl" isn't redundant, as it fixes the problem in #1 above. If the GMAT were going to use this construction, it would probably use a long dash rather than a comma. (See, for instance, SC #95 in the 2nd edition Verbal Review.) However, this is really too much complexity for such a simple thought, and I don't see the GMAT presenting us with a choice like this. We'd be better off with "I like the young, beautiful girl in the room."

3.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, which the apples are too sour and expensive.
"Which" has to modify a noun. If you continue with a clause ("The apples are . . . "), you no longer have a modifier. Also, "which" should be modifying "house." This is 100% incorrect, and would never constitute an acceptable English sentence, on the GMAT or elsewhere. [ [Other than that, I love it. :P ]

4.) Peter hates to buy apples from the market near his house, the apples which are too sour and expensive.
This is not similar to #3 but to #2, with all the same problems. (It's too complex for the simple thought it's expressing, and the GMAT would probably use a long dash.) I'll also second Piyush's point about "that" vs. "which." In this sentence (as, perhaps, in 1-3), it would work better to link with "because." "Peter hates to buy the apples sold at the market near his house because they are too sour and expensive."
(Notice that I made the first part more specific--"the apples sold at the market"--because otherwise "they" would refer to all apples, rather than just those at the market.)


Thank you Dmitry Farber. Yes, I deliberately set these questions up. That's why the complexity structure seems a bit weird and not necessary. :-D Thanks so much for spending time looking at it. I am really appreciate those people who have the knowledge are very willing to help!
Relative pronoun modifier   [#permalink] 22 Jul 2014, 13:59
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