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Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change

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Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change [#permalink] New post 14 Jul 2005, 09:40
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change their attitude toward school and schoolwork won’t work. Take the program in West Virginia, for instance, where they tried to reduce their dropout rate by revoking the driving licenses of kids who left school. The program failed miserably.

Anne: It’s true that the West Virginia program failed, but many schools have devised incentive programs that have been very successful in improving attendance and reducing discipline problems.

According to Anne, the weak point in Reva’s claim is that it

(A) fails to consider the possibility that the majority of potential dropouts in West Virginia do not have driving licenses
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical
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Re: Surely a wrong OA....plz verify ! [#permalink] New post 10 Dec 2009, 09:29
When you quickly scan the answers D looks like a contender, but it's not the best answer. Anne never mention whether the successful programs used negative or positive incentives. You can assume from Reva’s description that the program in West Virgina is negative, but you can’t assume the ones Anne describes are positive. I think you were tricked by the use of the word “incentive” here. It’s usually associated with positive reward, so that’s why you assumed Anne was talking about a positive incentive. But she never mentions that rewards were apart of the successful programs.
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Re: Surely a wrong OA....plz verify ! [#permalink] New post 10 Dec 2009, 11:42
ummmm..............i think i can see now why E would be the answer.

Heres my explanation : see it stands valid

The question is What according to Anne was the weak point ?

Now if Anne would have thought of option(4) as weak she would have given an argument which would answer option(4) ---> get that she wud say somethign like "a reward is not the same as punishment etc"

But she gives an argument which says there are more programs that are successful ---> means she considers that
reasoning is weak beause it's based on just one example

I'm not sure whether i've explained clearly :)
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Re: Surely a wrong OA....plz verify ! [#permalink] New post 10 Dec 2009, 14:40
papillon86, I think picked up on the difference btw a postive and negative incentive in your explanation, which is good.

For the CR, I think it's essential to read the question very carefully and not let your preconceived notions influence the logic.
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Re: Surely a wrong OA....plz verify ! [#permalink] New post 10 Dec 2009, 15:13
E for sure.

The summary of Anne's response is: 1 school failed, but others have succeeded. Doesn't mention how the other schools succeeded.
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Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change [#permalink] New post 24 Dec 2010, 02:42
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change their attitude toward school and schoolwork won’t work. Take the program in West Virginia, for instance, where they tried to reduce their dropout rate by revoking the driving licenses of kids who left school. The program failed miserably.
Anne: It’s true that the West Virginia program failed, but many schools have devised incentive programs that have been very successful in improving attendance and reducing discipline problems.
According to Anne, the weak point in Reva’s claim is that it
(A) fails to consider the possibility that the majority of potential dropouts in West Virginia do not have driving licenses
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical
Can someone please explain this ?
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Re: 1000 CR LSAT GMAT CR [#permalink] New post 24 Dec 2010, 07:49
Speaker 1: An incentive program + or - will not work, and shows an example
Speaker 2: No thats too much of a generalisation. "Exceptions never make the rule". One thing might have failed but many such programs are a success.

Hope this helps.
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Re: 1000 CR LSAT GMAT CR [#permalink] New post 25 Dec 2010, 12:18
At first i chose A but going thru the opinions posted above i think E is valid.What abt C . It too fits
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Re: 1000 CR LSAT GMAT CR [#permalink] New post 25 Dec 2010, 13:04
mundasingh123 wrote:
At first i chose A but going thru the opinions posted above i think E is valid.What abt C . It too fits

@munda :

C cannot be correct as we are asked to find the weak point in Reva’s claim and option C is nowhere mentioned in Reva's claim to be found out.

(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
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Re: 1000 CR LSAT GMAT CR [#permalink] New post 26 Dec 2010, 04:45
Hi
madd2u and the rest,
I took this as a weakening question and according to Powerscore CR strategy, we take the options in a weakening situation as true .
But i now realize the importance of the phrase "according to -- "
Guys do u concur with my reasoning?
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Re: 1000 CR LSAT GMAT CR [#permalink] New post 26 Dec 2010, 05:51
mundasingh123 wrote:
Hi
madd2u and the rest,
I took this as a weakening question and according to Powerscore CR strategy, we take the options in a weakening situation as true .
But i now realize the importance of the phrase "according to -- "
Guys do u concur with my reasoning?


The Question tweaks the weakening model type that we usually see in GMAT. The question stem that we usually see in Powerscore as well as GMAT is this - "Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the conclusion drawn above? ", but in the question above it is stated to find the weak link in Reva's claim.

A simple tweak, yet a world of difference :wink:
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Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2012, 05:34
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Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change their attitude toward school and schoolwork won’t work. Take the program in West Virginia, for instance, where they tried to reduce their dropout rate by revoking the driving licenses of kids who left school. The program failed miserably.
Anne: It’s true that the West Virginia program failed, but many schools have devised incentive programs that have been very successful in improving attendance and reducing discipline problems.
According to Anne, the weak point in Reva’s claim is that it

(A) fails to consider the possibility that the majority of potential dropouts in West Virginia do not have driving licenses
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical
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Re: CR.....Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2012, 05:35
IMO the answer should be ....A
Because ::

(A) Correct
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program(out of scope)
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years (no such evidence mentioned above )
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license (non sense)
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical (could be true)
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Re: CR.....Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2012, 07:25
IMO A could be the answer.
(A) fails to consider the possibility that the majority of potential dropouts in West Virginia do not have driving licenses
If there is no incentive the program of avoiding the droup outs using the incentive is not there. Since there are no driving licenses for majority there is no incentive that prevents dropouts
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program
Reason not needed.
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
out of scope
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license
not relevant
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical
could be true. But not 100%
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Re: CR.....Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2012, 22:50
OA Is E....

@BoomtangBoy...
Can you please help me with your approach for CR questions i tend to go in the wrong direction.
Do you go by the rules written in the books of identifying premise and all that or you just attack ??
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Re: CR.....Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to [#permalink] New post 19 Apr 2012, 22:55
shikhar wrote:
OA Is E....

@BoomtangBoy...
Can you please help me with your approach for CR questions i tend to go in the wrong direction.
Do you go by the rules written in the books of identifying premise and all that or you just attack ??


Try below links. I go as bb said to pre-phrase before reading the answer choices. I see at least 20% improvement.
best-critical-reasoning-shortcuts-notes-tips-91280.html
study-plan-for-verbal-gmat-98342.html
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Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2013, 20:16
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change their attitude toward school and schoolwork won’t work. Take the program in West Virginia, for instance, where they tried to reduce their dropout rate by revoking the driving licenses of kids who left school. The program failed miserably.
Anne: It’s true that the West Virginia program failed, but many schools have devised incentive programs that have been very successful in improving attendance and reducing discipline problems.
According to Anne, the weak point in Reva’s claim is that it
(A) fails to consider the possibility that the majority of potential dropouts in West Virginia do not have driving licenses
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical
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Re: Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change [#permalink] New post 16 Mar 2013, 22:37
The OA is E according to this link: http://www.beatthegmat.com/using-extran ... 14415.html
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Re: Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change [#permalink] New post 25 Mar 2013, 05:31
xahead wrote:
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change their attitude toward school and schoolwork won’t work. Take the program in West Virginia, for instance, where they tried to reduce their dropout rate by revoking the driving licenses of kids who left school. The program failed miserably.
Anne: It’s true that the West Virginia program failed, but many schools have devised incentive programs that have been very successful in improving attendance and reducing discipline problems.
According to Anne, the weak point in Reva’s claim is that it
(A) fails to consider the possibility that the majority of potential dropouts in West Virginia do not have driving licenses
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical

The answer should be E.
Anne in her comments never talks abt negative or positive incentive.
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Re: Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change [#permalink] New post 25 Mar 2013, 06:40
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xahead wrote:
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change their attitude toward school and schoolwork won’t work. Take the program in West Virginia, for instance, where they tried to reduce their dropout rate by revoking the driving licenses of kids who left school. The program failed miserably.
Anne: It’s true that the West Virginia program failed, but many schools have devised incentive programs that have been very successful in improving attendance and reducing discipline problems.
According to Anne, the weak point in Reva’s claim is that it
(A) fails to consider the possibility that the majority of potential dropouts in West Virginia do not have driving licenses
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical



http://www.urch.com/forums/gmat-critica ... agers.html

http://www.yeuanhvan.com/critical-reaso ... iew-answer

http://www.beatthegmat.com/using-extran ... 14415.html


PLs check the links and do not post the OA until u r 100% sure.......

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Rqst moderators to modify the OA to E

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Re: Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change [#permalink] New post 03 May 2013, 12:28
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xahead wrote:
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change their attitude toward school and schoolwork won’t work. Take the program in West Virginia, for instance, where they tried to reduce their dropout rate by revoking the driving licenses of kids who left school. The program failed miserably.
Anne: It’s true that the West Virginia program failed, but many schools have devised incentive programs that have been very successful in improving attendance and reducing discipline problems.
According to Anne, the weak point in Reva’s claim is that it
(A) fails to consider the possibility that the majority of potential dropouts in West Virginia do not have driving licenses
(B) doesn’t provide any exact figures for the dropout rate in West Virginia before and during the program
(C) ignores a substantial body of evidence showing that parents and employers have been using extrinsic incentives with positive results for years
(D) assumes that a positive incentive—a prize or a reward—will be no more effective than a negative incentive, like the revoking of a driving license
(E) is based on a single example, the incentive program in West Virginia, which may not be typical

fameatop wrote:
Hi Mike, I think both options D & E are equally strong. In fact option A is also a good contender. Can you kindly explain how to evaluate these 3 options. Waiting eagerly for your valuable inputs. Regards, Fame

Fame: first of all, I don't consider this a particularly high quality question. It doesn't strike me as measuring up to the high standards that the GMAT holds on CR questions.

I think a crucial part of this question is the exact wording --- "According to Anne, the weak point in Reva’s claim is ..." ----- in other words, it's not enough simply to find a good weakener. Choices (A) & (D) both would be good weakeners in general, but neither is specifically to the content of what Anne says. Anne says zilch about how many West Virginia students have or don't have driver's licenses --- that's 100% unconnected to what she says ---- (A) is right out. Anne explicitly talks about incentives, but we get no clue from what she says whether the incentives she has in mind are positive or negative. We know Reva cites a negative incentive, but Anne apparently doesn't address the issue of whether incentives are positive or negative. It may be that all the incentives she cites are positive, but we have no way of knowing that. That's why (D), though a brilliant tempting answer, is ultimately untenable.

The OA is (E). Anne explicitly compares the results at West Virginia to the results elsewhere --- "many" schools have had good results with incentives. The word "many" implies those school may well be more typical than West Virginia is.

To summarize --- the fact that the question explicitly says "according to Anne" makes it incumbent on us to give her exact words extraordinary attention.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change   [#permalink] 03 May 2013, 12:28
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Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change Zatarra 0 26 Dec 2010, 05:51
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change papillon86 0 10 Dec 2009, 15:13
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change prinits 0 30 Jun 2009, 11:03
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change ywilfred 0 03 Sep 2005, 00:35
Reva: Using extraneous incentives to get teenagers to change cybera 0 15 Jul 2005, 08:40
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