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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the

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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the [#permalink] New post 29 May 2004, 04:23
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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.

(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were


Please explain your answers. Thank you in advance.
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Re: Mohenjo-Daro civilization [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2010, 05:34
seekmba wrote:
can someone explain why (C) is wrong. I thought "those" in option (C) clearly refers to "Nile delta and river valleys" and "had" is also correct

Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan,
the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.

(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations Hold
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations no need for past perfect
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did flourishing should be used for the ongoing action
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were should be used for the ongoing action


'Had' is not correct. 'Did' would be correct.
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Re: Mohenjo-Daro civilization [#permalink] New post 09 Apr 2010, 21:09
this is from OG - 10

OA as per OG-10 is:

Choice A, the best answer, uses the simple past tense flourished to describe civilizations existing
simultaneously in the past. Choice B wrongly uses the past perfect had flourished; past perfect tense indicates
action that was completed prior to some other event described in the simple past tense: for example, "Mayan
civilization had ceased to exist by the time Europeans first reached the Americas." Choice C lacks as after time.
In choices C, D, and E, the plural pronoun those has no plural noun to which it can refer. In C, had signals the
incorrect past perfect; did in D and were in E are awkward and unnecessary. D and E also incorrectly use the
present participle flourishing where that flourished is needed.
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Re: Mohenjo-Daro civilization [#permalink] New post 11 Apr 2010, 10:51
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Hey All,

Good work getting to the bottom of this one. However, I thought I'd give my two cents to answer a question that seems to remain here. Namely, why is A correct when it doesn't contain the verb "did", which would make things less parallel. The answer has to do with meaning.

The reason we insert a verb in sentences sometimes is to remove ambiguity. If there's no ambiguity, we don't need to change it. For example:

I work out at the same time as my mom.

There's no need to say: "I work out at the same time as my mom does". There's no confusion. The meaning doesn't change with or without the word "does".

Hope that helps!

-t
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Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 03 Jun 2010, 11:24
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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the
Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an
ancient civilization that flourished at the same time
as the civilizations
in the Nile Delta and the river
valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A) that flourished at the same time as the
civilizations
(8) that had flourished at the same time as had
the civilizations
(e) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

Please support your answers with explanations!!

Thanks
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 03 Jun 2010, 14:17
A

Simple past tense -- when two even occur at same time
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 03 Jun 2010, 14:40
(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
correct

(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
past perfect must be paired with past tense

(C) that flourished at the same time those had
those does not have an antecedent

(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
prefer a verb to an adjective, those does not have an antecedent

(E) flourishing at the same time as those were
prefer a verb to an adjective, those does not have an antecedent
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 05 Jun 2010, 11:09
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mrik wrote:
izaidi wrote:
(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
correct

(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
past perfect must be paired with past tense

(C) that flourished at the same time those had
those does not have an antecedent

(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
prefer a verb to an adjective, those does not have an antecedent

(E) flourishing at the same time as those were
prefer a verb to an adjective, those does not have an antecedent

Can you please explain your reasoning that "past perfect must be paired with past tense". I am not familiar with it.



Past Perfect Tense = had + [past participle]

The Past Perfect is used to clarify the sequence of two events that occur in the past: the earlier past, and the later past. Use the Past Perfect for the earlier past and the Simple Past for the later past. However the later past can also be a time event.

Ex: I did not have any money because I had lost my wallet.
Ex: By 1950, I had broken my heart twice.

* I advise you to learn about the Perfect and Progressive tenses.
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 05 Jun 2010, 17:40
GMAT i think so intelligent

When we compare things

1. we compare singular with singular. Even the pronoun must agree in number and person
2. we compare things which are similar. Similar means apples w/ apples. But its illogical to compare apple of 1960 w/ apple of 2010.

Now go back to SC

1. that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
2. that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
3. that flourished at the same time that there were with
4. flourishing at the same time as as those did
5. so many changes at once that confronted them in

4,5 are OUT dont use that

2. "had flourished" I see sequencing. One thing occurred before other. hmm that doesnt go with "at the same time". OUT

3. is awkward and passive. OUT

A it is.
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 05 Jun 2010, 23:05
although A appears to be the best answers, but is it correct.

That flourished at the same time as the civilizations in Delta and Tigris did.

How is it parallel without the 'did' in the end.


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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 05 Jun 2010, 23:59
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Hi Guys-- besides the much-discussed comparison, did you catch the idiom they're testing you on? See explanations below.

Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the
Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an
ancient civilization that flourished at the same time
as the civilizations
in the Nile Delta and the river
valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A) that flourished at the same time as the
civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had
the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

A. The comparison uses the idiom same X.... as Y. X is 'an ancient civilization', and Y is a 'the civilizations'-- a logical comparison. And what about tenses? How do we know that the past simple (flourished) is needed? The time modifier for the verb is "at the same time"; now, 'at' indicates a specific point in the past.

Note on ellipses in comparisons: As long as the verb of comparison is in the same tense for both items of comparison, you do not need to repeat the verb (you can but don't need to).

Ex. I ate dinner at the same time as my brother ('did'-- optional).
Ex. I eat as much as my brother ate ('ate'-- not optional) when he was on the football team.


B. The only error in B is the past perfect, "had flourished", for there is no indication that the flourishing had taken place before some other point in the past.

C. NOTE: THERE IS NOT 'AS'! Once you start with the word 'same' you must complete the idiom with 'as'. Second, every time you run into the words 'that'/'those' (or any pronoun for that matter) you must ask yourself 'that'/'those' what? Here, 'those' indicates 'those civilizations,' BUT THE WORD 'CIVILIZATIONS' (plural) IS NOT IN THE SENTENCE. So there is no referent for the pronoun.

D. Same as C

E. Same as C


Hope this helped!

-Sarai

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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the [#permalink] New post 08 Jun 2010, 10:58
14. Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

solution is A. but what is wrong with B.
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Re: sc question from section8 q14 [#permalink] New post 08 Jun 2010, 11:14
B is unnecessary change of tense. OUT
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 10 Jun 2010, 10:06
SaraiGMAXonline wrote:
papillon86 wrote:
Sarai

awesome explanations..... +1 for you

So tell me if this sentence is correct? This ones from Manhattan SC

The red dress looks more flattering on you than the blue one.

Thanks


Yes, you got it! :)



But Sarai, this statement is incorrect as per manhattan. Please explain how?

Correction: The red dress looks more flattering on you than the blue one does.
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 10 Jun 2010, 13:15
papillon86 wrote:
SaraiGMAXonline wrote:
papillon86 wrote:
Sarai

awesome explanations..... +1 for you

So tell me if this sentence is correct? This ones from Manhattan SC

The red dress looks more flattering on you than the blue one.

Thanks


Yes, you got it! :)



But Sarai, this statement is incorrect as per manhattan. Please explain how?

Correction: The red dress looks more flattering on you than the blue one does.


Hi papillon86,

'does' means 'looks'. 'looks' is the only verb that can complete the comparison, and comparisons are always made up of two clauses although often the second verb is left off because of an ellipsis (i.e. it already appears in the first half of the sentence). 'Looks' how? 'looks flattering'. The sentence is good with or without 'does'. I haven't seen what Manhattan has to say, but I have no doubt in my mind that they would agree.

Warm Regards,
Sarai
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 11 Jun 2010, 01:23
Hi Sarai,

I have doubt regarding the subjunctive mood used in the construction by gmat.

Does it have exceptions or is it applicable to all sorts of verbs?

Eg: In the following sentence:

I propose Amy does the job as explained.( verb used to do)

So is this construction correct?
Your thoughts?
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 13 Jun 2010, 00:31
papillon86 wrote:
Hi Sarai,

I have doubt regarding the subjunctive mood used in the construction by gmat.

Does it have exceptions or is it applicable to all sorts of verbs?

Eg: In the following sentence:

I propose Amy does the job as explained.( verb used to do)

So is this construction correct?
Your thoughts?


Hi papillon86,

The subjunctive is used specifically with causative verbs-- verbs indicating that someone wants someone to do something, but whether or not the second person does the action is unknown.

Thus, the sentence you gave is incorrect.

Incorrect: I propose Amy does the job.
Correct: I propose that Amy do the job.

Subjunctive formula:
Subject1 + causative verb (any tense) + that + Subject2 + base verb.

Think about it this way: You do not know whether Amy actually goes ahead and does the job, so you cannot put the verb for Amy in the present tense or future tense or any tense for that matter. This is why you have the base verb.

Best,
Sarai
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink] New post 13 Jun 2010, 00:34
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(For more on the subjunctive, check out the Small Details lesson at gmaxonline!)
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Re: SC- Mohenjodaro&SC notes [#permalink] New post 12 May 2011, 07:23
(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations (too cumbersome)
(C) that flourished at the same time that there were with (doesn't sound right)
(D) flourishing at the same time as as those did (too cumbersome)
(E) so many changes at once that confronted them in (what on earth does this have to do with the original statement?)

This leaves A as the only option.
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Salt deposits [#permalink] New post 27 Jun 2011, 01:10
[Reveal] Spoiler: 'Please check this spoiler ?'
In this sentence too How is A a correct choice...Inst there a Comparison error??

Don't we need something like that flourished at the same time as did the civilizations ???

In a similar post at => dirt-roads-116021.html we rule out some choices because of clear comparison error. What is the difference between these 2 questions??



Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of Tigris and Euphrates.

a. that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
b. that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
c. that flourished at the same time those had
d. flourishing at the same time as those did
e. flourishing at the same time as those were
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Re: Salt deposits [#permalink] New post 01 Jul 2011, 22:08
if you understand the meaning of the underlined portion... the stress is on 'at the same time' so you dont need did.

'that flourished at the same time as [strike]did[/strike] the civilizations' in nile delta.

Eg. try to understand the difference -

she started studying at the same time as her sister.

ABC theatre charges as much as XYZ theatre does.
Re: Salt deposits   [#permalink] 01 Jul 2011, 22:08
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