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# Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the

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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the [#permalink]

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29 May 2004, 04:23
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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.

(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

[Reveal] Spoiler: OA
If you have any questions
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink]

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05 Jun 2010, 23:59
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Hi Guys-- besides the much-discussed comparison, did you catch the idiom they're testing you on? See explanations below.

Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the
Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an
ancient civilization that flourished at the same time
as the civilizations
in the Nile Delta and the river
valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A) that flourished at the same time as the
civilizations
the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

A. The comparison uses the idiom same X.... as Y. X is 'an ancient civilization', and Y is a 'the civilizations'-- a logical comparison. And what about tenses? How do we know that the past simple (flourished) is needed? The time modifier for the verb is "at the same time"; now, 'at' indicates a specific point in the past.

Note on ellipses in comparisons: As long as the verb of comparison is in the same tense for both items of comparison, you do not need to repeat the verb (you can but don't need to).

Ex. I ate dinner at the same time as my brother ('did'-- optional).
Ex. I eat as much as my brother ate ('ate'-- not optional) when he was on the football team.

B. The only error in B is the past perfect, "had flourished", for there is no indication that the flourishing had taken place before some other point in the past.

C. NOTE: THERE IS NOT 'AS'! Once you start with the word 'same' you must complete the idiom with 'as'. Second, every time you run into the words 'that'/'those' (or any pronoun for that matter) you must ask yourself 'that'/'those' what? Here, 'those' indicates 'those civilizations,' BUT THE WORD 'CIVILIZATIONS' (plural) IS NOT IN THE SENTENCE. So there is no referent for the pronoun.

D. Same as C

E. Same as C

Hope this helped!

-Sarai

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15 Mar 2005, 09:31
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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization (that flourished at the same time as the civilizations) in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.

(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
- 'that' introduces an essential modifier for the 'civilization' preceding the phrase. the use of past tense would make the mohenjo civilization exists in the same time as the civilizations in the nile and tigris/euphrates had

(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
- 'past perfect' suggests the Mohenjo civilization died out before the civilizations in the Nilte delta and river valleys of tigris and euphrates

(C) that flourished at the same time those had
- 'those does not have a clear referent'

(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
- 'those' does not have a referent

(E) flourishing at the same time as those were
- 'those' does not have a referent

A it is.
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02 Feb 2005, 05:30
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A !

because first action "threaten" is present tense and second action took place before the first action and therefore past tense "flourished" is needed. moreover the comparision between the civilizations is right
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16 Feb 2005, 13:28
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A it is

Choices d,e are out because partcipal phrase flourishing.... is modifying site which is in correct. that leaves us with choices A,B & C

B & C are out because of improper use of tenses. Hence you are left with A
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15 Jul 2008, 12:42
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Found these notes somewhere and kind of liked them so thought to share them

Attachment:
File comment: Tell me if you like them
Rajat_nda SC notes.pdf [206.62 KiB]

tell me if they are useful
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11 Apr 2010, 10:51
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Hey All,

Good work getting to the bottom of this one. However, I thought I'd give my two cents to answer a question that seems to remain here. Namely, why is A correct when it doesn't contain the verb "did", which would make things less parallel. The answer has to do with meaning.

The reason we insert a verb in sentences sometimes is to remove ambiguity. If there's no ambiguity, we don't need to change it. For example:

I work out at the same time as my mom.

There's no need to say: "I work out at the same time as my mom does". There's no confusion. The meaning doesn't change with or without the word "does".

Hope that helps!

-t
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Re: Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the [#permalink]

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29 Aug 2013, 05:27
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gmatter0913 wrote:
I have the same doubt regarding this question.

The OA is A, but I am not convinced.

(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations

It has to be:

(A) that flourished at the same time as did the civilizations

or Am I missing any grammar rule??

if this was the option then also it is not wrong:
(A) that flourished at the same time as did the civilizations

we can omit the verbs when the following condition are met:
1)we should have parallel construction involving verbs
2)verbs of both (or all if more than 2 structures are parallel) are exactly the same (in the same tense including)
3)omitting verb doesn't create ambiguity.

if above condition satisfy then we can omit the verb in ALL BUT the first.

coming to this question:
we have 2 parallel structure:
the site of an ancient civilization flourished
at the same time as
the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys flourished.
or
DID the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys

Now we can see all three condition are meeting.
so we can omit verb from 2nd parallel structure.
hope this much is clear.

similar simple example:
francis ran faster than xavier ran.
francis ran faster than xavier..
francis ran faster than did xavier.
francis ran faster than xavier did.

all the above 4 sentences are correct only thing is that 2 nd sentence is best

take another example when after removing verb sentence becomes ambiguous
the tycoon supported Jones
more than
anyone else supported jones.

first 2 conditions are satisfied ...lets remove the verb and check for ambiguity thing.

the tycoon supported Jones more than anyone else in the industry.

now here it is ambiguous.
how?
there can be 2 meanings.
1)the tycoon supported jones more than the tycoon supported anyone else
2)the tycoon supported jones more than anyone else supported jones.

now under these cases you are not going to OMIT the verbs.

hope it helps
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02 Feb 2005, 04:55
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HongHu wrote:
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Koro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A)
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

b/w A and B, I go with A.
(B) past perfect tense is needless.
(C)(D)(E) those has no referent
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16 Feb 2005, 13:32
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B

thought of it as an act that stopped long ago and so we need "had".

on exam though, I would've picked A since it sounds right!
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13 Dec 2006, 02:09
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b14kumar wrote:
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile Delta and the river valley of the Tigris and Euphrates.
a) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
b) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
c) that flourished at the same time those had
d) flourishing at the same time as those did
e) flourishing at the same time as those were

Tough one.

A looks OK, but "as the civilizations did" would be better.
B past perfect needs a past tense in the sentence
C tenses are not parallel, those had flourished, but after that, there is past tense only
D there may be a parallel tense problem here as well, flourishing, and those did, but this may be the best answer
E past continous tense in this sentence is wrong.

I am between A and D.

No wait, definitely A.

the second part does not need parallel construction, it is a noun, all of it!
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27 Mar 2009, 06:32
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should be A

If we want to use verb+ing , i think sentence has to change something like this:

Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan,the site of an ancient civilization, flourishing at the same time as the civilazations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
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Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink]

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03 Jun 2010, 11:24
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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the
Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an
ancient civilization that flourished at the same time
as the civilizations
in the Nile Delta and the river
valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A) that flourished at the same time as the
civilizations
the civilizations
(e) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

Thanks
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink]

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05 Jun 2010, 11:09
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mrik wrote:
izaidi wrote:
(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
correct

(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
past perfect must be paired with past tense

(C) that flourished at the same time those had
those does not have an antecedent

(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
prefer a verb to an adjective, those does not have an antecedent

(E) flourishing at the same time as those were
prefer a verb to an adjective, those does not have an antecedent

Can you please explain your reasoning that "past perfect must be paired with past tense". I am not familiar with it.

Past Perfect Tense = had + [past participle]

The Past Perfect is used to clarify the sequence of two events that occur in the past: the earlier past, and the later past. Use the Past Perfect for the earlier past and the Simple Past for the later past. However the later past can also be a time event.

Ex: I did not have any money because I had lost my wallet.
Ex: By 1950, I had broken my heart twice.

* I advise you to learn about the Perfect and Progressive tenses.
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink]

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13 Jun 2010, 00:31
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papillon86 wrote:
Hi Sarai,

I have doubt regarding the subjunctive mood used in the construction by gmat.

Does it have exceptions or is it applicable to all sorts of verbs?

Eg: In the following sentence:

I propose Amy does the job as explained.( verb used to do)

So is this construction correct?

Hi papillon86,

The subjunctive is used specifically with causative verbs-- verbs indicating that someone wants someone to do something, but whether or not the second person does the action is unknown.

Thus, the sentence you gave is incorrect.

Incorrect: I propose Amy does the job.
Correct: I propose that Amy do the job.

Subjunctive formula:
Subject1 + causative verb (any tense) + that + Subject2 + base verb.

Think about it this way: You do not know whether Amy actually goes ahead and does the job, so you cannot put the verb for Amy in the present tense or future tense or any tense for that matter. This is why you have the base verb.

Best,
Sarai
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Re: Need help me on this one. Doubts!! [#permalink]

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13 Jun 2010, 00:34
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(For more on the subjunctive, check out the Small Details lesson at gmaxonline!)
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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the [#permalink]

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13 Apr 2013, 03:41
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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of Tigris and Euphrates.

a. that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
b. that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
c. that flourished at the same time those had
d. flourishing at the same time as those did
e. flourishing at the same time as those were

Just one query for option d,e- is it wrong to use present participle (flourishing) for something in happened in past or we can go ahead use that
whether D will be correct if i say:

flourishing at the same time as the civilizations

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Re: Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the [#permalink]

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17 May 2016, 03:17
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anuj4012 wrote:
Can we remove "that" in option A?
If no, how removal of "that" makes it a run-on sentence?

When "that" is removed, there would be two sentences:

1. Salt deposits and moisture threaten....
2. The site of ancient civilization flourished.....

The above two sentences are joined by only a comma without conjunction, thus making this option a run-on sentence.

However when "that" is used, "The site of ancient civilization..." becomes a modifier (say modifier 1) of "Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan" and thus is not a run-on sentence. Please note that in this case within modifier 1, there is another nested relative clause modifier (modifier 2) - "that flourished...."
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29 May 2004, 17:43
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This is talking about verb inversion + the verb ellipsed.

that flourished at the same time as did ( Inverted verb before the noun and also ellipsed) the civilizations.

Inverted verb comes before the noun. Sentence like these carry high marks.
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Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the [#permalink]

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01 Feb 2005, 23:34
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Koro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A)
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the   [#permalink] 01 Feb 2005, 23:34

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