Find all School-related info fast with the new School-Specific MBA Forum

 It is currently 30 Nov 2015, 15:30

### GMAT Club Daily Prep

#### Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

# Events & Promotions

###### Events & Promotions in June
Open Detailed Calendar

# San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared

Author Message
TAGS:
Manager
Status: Keep fighting!
Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 236
WE 1: 2+ years - Programming
WE 2: 3+ years - Product developement,
WE 3: 2+ years - Program management
Followers: 4

Kudos [?]: 301 [5] , given: 104

San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 05:18
5
KUDOS
11
This post was
BOOKMARKED
00:00

Difficulty:

95% (hard)

Question Stats:

29% (02:14) correct 71% (01:05) wrong based on 494 sessions
San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared Los Angeles a world city, yet within twenty years a powerful municipal had made this boast a reality .

yet within twenty years a powerful municipal had made this boast a reality
yet within twenty years a powerful municipal made this boast a reality
yet a powerful municipal within twenty years will make this boast a reality
yet this boast had become a reality within twenty years because of a powerful will municipally
yet within twenty years a municipal will had made this boast a powerful reality
+1 Kudos if you like the question and if you want the OE . this is from Kaplan and the OA is indeed correct!
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA
 Kaplan GMAT Prep Discount Codes Knewton GMAT Discount Codes Veritas Prep GMAT Discount Codes
Retired Moderator
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 247
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 33 [0], given: 41

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 08:23
I opted for B, why do we need past perfect participle here.. ?

I think simple past tense is better in this sentence then past perfect... can anyone explain ?
_________________

http://www.gmatpill.com/gmat-practice-test/

Amazing Platform

Intern
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 25
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 11 [0], given: 2

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 08:30
I opted for B. Simple past is enough right?
Correct me if i am wrong.
Retired Moderator
Status: I wish!
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 788
Followers: 109

Kudos [?]: 337 [2] , given: 33

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 10:16
2
KUDOS
hemanthp wrote:
San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared Los Angeles a world city, yet within twenty years a powerful municipal had made this boast a reality .

yet within twenty years a powerful municipal had made this boast a reality
yet within twenty years a powerful municipal made this boast a reality
yet a powerful municipal within twenty years will make this boast a reality
yet this boast had become a reality within twenty years because of a powerful will municipally
yet within twenty years a municipal will had made this boast a powerful reality
+1 Kudos if you like the question and if you want the OE . this is from Kaplan and the OA is indeed correct!

OA can't be A.

All the options are wrong IMO! I think there is something missing in the sentence!

See, I believe everyone knows when to use past perfect tense.

In this sentence, 'the municipal making this boast a reality occurred after San Franciscans mocked the claim.' I don't think we can have the later part in past perfect! It would be fine if the first part is in past perfect but then that part we can't change as that part is not underlined.

Please check out the questions again, IMO a piece of information is missing in this question.
_________________
Manager
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 113
Concentration: General Management, Technology
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2013
GMAT 1: 670 Q47 V35
GMAT 2: 730 Q49 V41
Followers: 12

Kudos [?]: 178 [0], given: 43

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 10:53
kissthegmat wrote:

OA can't be A.

All the options are wrong IMO! I think there is something missing in the sentence!

See, I believe everyone knows when to use past perfect tense.

In this sentence, 'the municipal making this boast a reality occurred after San Franciscans mocked the claim.' I don't think we can have the later part in past perfect! It would be fine if the first part is in past perfect but then that part we can't change as that part is not underlined.

Please check out the questions again, IMO a piece of information is missing in this question.

I totally agree with kissthegmat there is no sense in using past perfect here.
_________________

Consider Kudos if my post helped you. Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
My TOEFL Debrief: http://gmatclub.com/forum/my-toefl-experience-99884.html
My GMAT Debrief: http://gmatclub.com/forum/670-730-10-luck-20-skill-15-concentrated-power-of-will-104473.html

Retired Moderator
Status: I wish!
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 788
Followers: 109

Kudos [?]: 337 [0], given: 33

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 11:21
I have also PMed the Kaplan representative here on this forum to look into this question. Hope we'll listen from Kaplan representative soon.
_________________
Kaplan GMAT Instructor
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 644
Location: Cambridge, MA
Followers: 77

Kudos [?]: 221 [4] , given: 2

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 12:17
4
KUDOS
Expert's post
My understanding of this unusual grammatical construction is that we can read 'within twenty years' as 'before twenty years passed'. Thus, focusing only on the second clause after the comma, the earliest event is the boast becoming reality. Since the boast becomes reality before that time finishes passing, the perfect tense is appropriate (though not mandatory).

Hope this helps!
_________________

Eli Meyer
Kaplan Teacher
http://www.kaptest.com/GMAT

Prepare with Kaplan and save $150 on a course! Kaplan Reviews Manager Joined: 04 Jun 2010 Posts: 113 Concentration: General Management, Technology Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2013 GMAT 1: 670 Q47 V35 GMAT 2: 730 Q49 V41 Followers: 12 Kudos [?]: 178 [1] , given: 43 Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink] 30 Sep 2010, 13:13 1 This post received KUDOS KapTeacherEli wrote: My understanding of this unusual grammatical construction is that we can read 'within twenty years' as 'before twenty years passed'. Thus, focusing only on the second clause after the comma, the earliest event is the boast becoming reality. Since the boast becomes reality before that time finishes passing, the perfect tense is appropriate (though not mandatory). Hope this helps! This sounds odd. Even if anyone could infer that 'within twenty years' is 'before twenty years passed' it is still (as you mentioned) unnecessary. And as far as I remember perfect is only used when doing otherwise distort meaning or causes and ambiguity regarding the occurrence of events. Both do not happen here, the sentence is perfectly clear when using the simple tense. Correct me if I'm wrong. _________________ Consider Kudos if my post helped you. Thanks! -------------------------------------------------------------------- My TOEFL Debrief: http://gmatclub.com/forum/my-toefl-experience-99884.html My GMAT Debrief: http://gmatclub.com/forum/670-730-10-luck-20-skill-15-concentrated-power-of-will-104473.html Kaplan GMAT Instructor Joined: 25 Aug 2009 Posts: 644 Location: Cambridge, MA Followers: 77 Kudos [?]: 221 [0], given: 2 Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink] 30 Sep 2010, 13:20 Expert's post rafi wrote: KapTeacherEli wrote: My understanding of this unusual grammatical construction is that we can read 'within twenty years' as 'before twenty years passed'. Thus, focusing only on the second clause after the comma, the earliest event is the boast becoming reality. Since the boast becomes reality before that time finishes passing, the perfect tense is appropriate (though not mandatory). Hope this helps! This sounds odd. Even if anyone could infer that 'within twenty years' is 'before twenty years passed' it is still (as you mentioned) unnecessary. And as far as I remember perfect is only used when doing otherwise distort meaning or causes and ambiguity regarding the occurrence of events. Both do not happen here, the sentence is perfectly clear when using the simple tense. Correct me if I'm wrong. Hi rafi, You've got the right idea, but it's too narrow. The perfect tense is only required in those circumstances, but it can still be correctly used if the meaning is clear from other context. See http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/pastperfect.html Quote: If the Past Perfect action did occur at a specific time, the Simple Past can be used instead of the Past Perfect when "before" or "after" is used in the sentence. The words "before" and "after" actually tell you what happens first, so the Past Perfect is optional. For this reason, both sentences below are correct. Examples: She had visited her Japanese relatives once in 1993 before she moved in with them in 1996. She visited her Japanese relatives once in 1993 before she moved in with them in 1996. _________________ Eli Meyer Kaplan Teacher http://www.kaptest.com/GMAT Prepare with Kaplan and save$150 on a course!

Kaplan Reviews

Manager
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 113
Concentration: General Management, Technology
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2013
GMAT 1: 670 Q47 V35
GMAT 2: 730 Q49 V41
Followers: 12

Kudos [?]: 178 [0], given: 43

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 13:27
KapTeacherEli wrote:
Hi rafi,

You've got the right idea, but it's too narrow. The perfect tense is only required in those circumstances, but it can still be correctly used if the meaning is clear from other context.

See http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/pastperfect.html
Quote:
If the Past Perfect action did occur at a specific time, the Simple Past can be used instead of the Past Perfect when "before" or "after" is used in the sentence. The words "before" and "after" actually tell you what happens first, so the Past Perfect is optional. For this reason, both sentences below are correct.

Examples:

She had visited her Japanese relatives once in 1993 before she moved in with them in 1996.
She visited her Japanese relatives once in 1993 before she moved in with them in 1996.

OK, so according to that there are two correct answers in the answer choices in this question.
When I see two correct answers like these two and I remember that the GMAT prefers simplicity I will choose answer choice B and not A. So why is A the OA?
_________________

Consider Kudos if my post helped you. Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
My TOEFL Debrief: http://gmatclub.com/forum/my-toefl-experience-99884.html
My GMAT Debrief: http://gmatclub.com/forum/670-730-10-luck-20-skill-15-concentrated-power-of-will-104473.html

Kaplan GMAT Instructor
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 644
Location: Cambridge, MA
Followers: 77

Kudos [?]: 221 [1] , given: 2

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  30 Sep 2010, 13:55
1
KUDOS
Expert's post
1
This post was
BOOKMARKED
rafi wrote:
OK, so according to that there are two correct answers in the answer choices in this question.
When I see two correct answers like these two and I remember that the GMAT prefers simplicity I will choose answer choice B and not A. So why is A the OA?
Excellent question, rafi. The answer is that I'm not reading carefully enough! The exception that I cited applies to sentences with specified times, which this sentence lacks. Good catch, and thanks for pointing it out.

That being said, the past perfect tense is used to stress that one event happens before another--again, in this case, before the 20 years passes. The 'had been' past perfect is not limited exclusively to cases where it's omission would make the sentence ambiguous. For that reason, the word 'within' in the past will take the past perfect tense. Here's a couple of examples lifted from periodicals:
Quote:
He won the lottery and moved to California. Within five years, he had filed for bankruptcy.

Within five years he had another congregation at work not far from his home.
[/quote]If you're not convinced that it's grammatically necessary, then chalk it up to idiomatic language--but the 'had' tense is required here.
_________________

Eli Meyer
Kaplan Teacher
http://www.kaptest.com/GMAT

Prepare with Kaplan and save $150 on a course! Kaplan Reviews Manager Joined: 04 Jun 2010 Posts: 113 Concentration: General Management, Technology Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2013 GMAT 1: 670 Q47 V35 GMAT 2: 730 Q49 V41 Followers: 12 Kudos [?]: 178 [1] , given: 43 Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink] 30 Sep 2010, 14:16 1 This post received KUDOS KapTeacherEli wrote: Excellent question, rafi. The answer is that I'm not reading carefully enough! The exception that I cited applies to sentences with specified times, which this sentence lacks. Good catch, and thanks for pointing it out. That being said, the past perfect tense is used to stress that one event happens before another--again, in this case, before the 20 years passes. The 'had been' past perfect is not limited exclusively to cases where it's omission would make the sentence ambiguous. For that reason, the word 'within' in the past will take the past perfect tense. Here's a couple of examples lifted from periodicals: Quote: He won the lottery and moved to California. Within five years, he had filed for bankruptcy. Within five years he had another congregation at work not far from his home. If you're not convinced that it's grammatically necessary, then chalk it up to idiomatic language--but the 'had' tense is required here. Thanks, I now got it. It is the idiomatic language that confused me to thinking that the 'within twenty years' does not represent an event for which it is necessary to define a past perfect when talking about another event. _________________ Consider Kudos if my post helped you. Thanks! -------------------------------------------------------------------- My TOEFL Debrief: http://gmatclub.com/forum/my-toefl-experience-99884.html My GMAT Debrief: http://gmatclub.com/forum/670-730-10-luck-20-skill-15-concentrated-power-of-will-104473.html Retired Moderator Status: I wish! Joined: 21 May 2010 Posts: 788 Followers: 109 Kudos [?]: 337 [0], given: 33 Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink] 30 Sep 2010, 19:16 Thanks KapTeacherEli and rafi. It was nice to read your discussion. _________________ Manager Joined: 06 Aug 2010 Posts: 225 Location: Boston Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 119 [0], given: 5 Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink] 01 Oct 2010, 06:29 Am I the only one who thinks that the problem with this sentence is "a powerful municipal", rather than the verb form? "Municipal" is an adjective, not a noun, and using it like a noun in this way makes it sound like some unnamed, powerful force just decided within twenty years that LA was a world city. It should say something along the lines of "yet within twenty years, LA becoming a world city made this boast a reality." I chose (E), because it's the only one that has a definite subject ("a municipal will" - in other words, LA made itself into a world city through the power of its own will). hemanthp wrote: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared Los Angeles a world city, yet within twenty years a powerful municipal had made this boast a reality . yet within twenty years a powerful municipal had made this boast a reality yet within twenty years a powerful municipal made this boast a reality yet a powerful municipal within twenty years will make this boast a reality yet this boast had become a reality within twenty years because of a powerful will municipally yet within twenty years a municipal will had made this boast a powerful reality +1 Kudos if you like the question and if you want the OE . this is from Kaplan and the OA is indeed correct! Manager Joined: 22 Jun 2010 Posts: 212 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 71 [0], given: 13 Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink] 01 Oct 2010, 09:39 I fell for B! after some more reading I noticed why A is right. I hope not to see such a thing on the real test :-$
Senior Manager
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 302
Schools: Chicago Booth Class of 2013
Followers: 22

Kudos [?]: 170 [0], given: 194

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  12 Oct 2010, 09:54
Just two questions.

1). I have found that another Kaplan instructor explained the issue quite differently: http://www.beatthegmat.com/past-perfect-t55356.html
Looks like she is inversing the sequence of two events. Am I right thinking that she is not exactly right?

2). I have read in some reliable resourse that if two events occured VERY long time ago, say 1 000 000 years ago, we have to use did and did rather than did and had done. So, If we were given THE SAME constructed ans-choises but there were a question speaking about events occured in prehistoric times, would we still have to chose (A)? Or (B) would be preferable because of the antiquity?

Thanks.
Kaplan GMAT Instructor
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 644
Location: Cambridge, MA
Followers: 77

Kudos [?]: 221 [0], given: 2

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  12 Oct 2010, 10:54
Expert's post
Financier wrote:
Just two questions.

1). I have found that another Kaplan instructor explained the issue quite differently: http://www.beatthegmat.com/past-perfect-t55356.html
Looks like she is inversing the sequence of two events. Am I right thinking that she is not exactly right?

2). I have read in some reliable resourse that if two events occured VERY long time ago, say 1 000 000 years ago, we have to use did and did rather than did and had done. So, If we were given THE SAME constructed ans-choises but there were a question speaking about events occured in prehistoric times, would we still have to chose (A)? Or (B) would be preferable because of the antiquity?

Thanks.
Hi Financier,

That wasn't another instructor--that was me

And I'm pretty sure I said the same thing both times--we are considering the second clause, in which 'becoming reality' is an event in the past that happens before 'twenty years', and is therefore correct in the past perfect. If I mis-typed in either explanation and introduced any confusion, I apologize, but it seems to me that I was consistent!
_________________

Eli Meyer
Kaplan Teacher
http://www.kaptest.com/GMAT

Prepare with Kaplan and save $150 on a course! Kaplan Reviews Senior Manager Joined: 18 Jun 2010 Posts: 302 Schools: Chicago Booth Class of 2013 Followers: 22 Kudos [?]: 170 [0], given: 194 Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink] 12 Oct 2010, 11:00 KapTeacherEli wrote: Financier wrote: Just two questions. 1). I have found that another Kaplan instructor explained the issue quite differently: http://www.beatthegmat.com/past-perfect-t55356.html Looks like she is inversing the sequence of two events. Am I right thinking that she is not exactly right? 2). I have read in some reliable resourse that if two events occured VERY long time ago, say 1 000 000 years ago, we have to use did and did rather than did and had done. So, If we were given THE SAME constructed ans-choises but there were a question speaking about events occured in prehistoric times, would we still have to chose (A)? Or (B) would be preferable because of the antiquity? Thanks. Hi Financier, That wasn't another instructor--that was me And I'm pretty sure I said the same thing both times--we are considering the second clause, in which 'becoming reality' is an event in the past that happens before 'twenty years', and is therefore correct in the past perfect. If I mis-typed in either explanation and introduced any confusion, I apologize, but it seems to me that I was consistent! I alredy figured out my mistake and started to correct my post, but you are faster Could you answer my second question about antiquity? Kaplan GMAT Instructor Joined: 25 Aug 2009 Posts: 644 Location: Cambridge, MA Followers: 77 Kudos [?]: 221 [1] , given: 2 Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink] 12 Oct 2010, 11:03 1 This post received KUDOS Expert's post Financier wrote: I alredy figured out my mistake and started to correct my post, but you are faster Could you answer my second question about antiquity? Sure thing! I've never heard of such a rule, nor seen it on the GMAT, which means you probably don't need to worry about it. However, English is a fantastically complex language, so it's entirely possible that you're correct; I'd love to see the source of that rule if you can track it down. Hope that helps! _________________ Eli Meyer Kaplan Teacher http://www.kaptest.com/GMAT Prepare with Kaplan and save$150 on a course!

Kaplan Reviews

Senior Manager
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 302
Schools: Chicago Booth Class of 2013
Followers: 22

Kudos [?]: 170 [0], given: 194

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared [#permalink]  13 Oct 2010, 06:44
Quote:

I've never heard of such a rule, nor seen it on the GMAT, which means you probably don't need to worry about it. However, English is a fantastically complex language, so it's entirely possible that you're correct; I'd love to see the source of that rule if you can track it down.

Hope that helps!

Of course, I headed to find you the rule I was talking about - I wanted to show that I was right. Actually, I was wrong:). On the picture below MGMAT is talking about another case. Anyway, I feel good because this dialog helped me fix a flaw in my reasoning. Thank you very much.

Re: San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared   [#permalink] 13 Oct 2010, 06:44

Go to page    1   2    Next  [ 26 posts ]

Similar topics Replies Last post
Similar
Topics:
1 San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared 9 12 May 2012, 07:09
3 San Franciscans of the 1890s mocked the claim that declared 11 19 Mar 2011, 02:48
SanFransiscans of the 1890's mocked the claim that declared 4 16 Feb 2008, 07:30
San Franciscans of the 1890's mocked the claim that declared 19 13 Jun 2007, 20:08
San Francisco of the 1890's mocked the claim that declared 10 26 Apr 2006, 19:20
Display posts from previous: Sort by