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Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain

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Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2011, 02:59
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1. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago.

2. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, SUGGESTING the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

3. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago

Can someone pls discuss the difference between the above three sentences. First one, IMO, is an absolute phrase example. What about the other two? Are both Ok? In the second sentence who is performing the action (suggesting) ?
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Re: absolute phrase !!!! [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2011, 05:32
Hi,
I thnik 1) & 2) are right and 3 ) is wrong .

1) Absolute phrase (noun plus noun modifier - ) connects two parts of the sentences by a comma and modifies the first part in this example
2) present participle is used to modify the entire preceding clause . Important point to note is that the first part is not performing the action rather is getting modified by the 2nd part
3) wrong . as the modifier is neither in absolute phrase form (noun plus noun modifier ) nor in participle form which will modify back the precedeeing part of the sentence .
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Re: absolute phrase !!!! [#permalink] New post 16 May 2011, 21:41
first 2 is correct .we can show results in absolute phrase and in present participle.
3-seems incorrect.as mentioned that results (noun) with out absolute phrase modify world ,another nearest noun.
suggesting modifying another noun results.---
present participle is verbal.
-used as present progressive
-used modify noun(gerunds)
used as adverb to modify verb
-used as adjective.
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Re: absolute phrase !!!! [#permalink] New post 16 May 2011, 22:54
good explanation here.

absolute phrase and verbal cannot be together is the lesson learnt.
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Re: absolute phrase !!!! [#permalink] New post 17 May 2011, 08:59
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biswarup1234 wrote:
1. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago.

2. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, SUGGESTING the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

3. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago

Can someone pls discuss the difference between the above three sentences. First one, IMO, is an absolute phrase example. What about the other two? Are both Ok? In the second sentence who is performing the action (suggesting) ?


Actually, you could argue 1 & 3 work - but on the GMAT, 1 is preferred.
The third one is a bit weak, but it can still work.
2 has issues between STRUCTURE and MEANING explained below.

Basically, the way you look at it is like this:
#3: "Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago."

"Scientists have found [X], [description of X]."

"Scientists have found [X], results suggesting blah blah blah."

Since "results suggesting blah blah blah" describes [X]...

"Scientists have found [results suggesting blah blah blah]."

You do the same for #1 - noting that on the GMAT, "results that suggests X" is better than "results suggesting X" - though both can work
"Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago."

"Scientists have found [X], results that suggest blah blah blah."

Since "results that suggest blah blah blah" describes [X]...
we can write:
"Scientists have found [results that suggest blah blah blah]."

2 has issues with the -ING verb.

Whenever you have a descriptive -ING verb as you have here, it is STRUCTURALLY describing the subject SCIENTISTS. But MEANING-WISE, this doesn't make sense.
So really, it's the RESULTS/FINDINGS that are suggesting - not the scientists.

Because of this conflict between STRUCTURE and MEANING - (2) is no good.
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Last edited by GMATPill on 05 Dec 2012, 13:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2012, 09:19
biswarup1234 wrote:
1. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago.

2. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, SUGGESTING the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

3. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago

Can someone pls discuss the difference between the above three sentences. First one, IMO, is an absolute phrase example. What about the other two? Are both Ok? In the second sentence who is performing the action (suggesting) ?


Can someone please throw light on Sentence 2. Who is doing the action of suggesting?
As per my understanding, Comma + ing modifier can modify the whole clause, but it should makes sense with Subject. However, here, scientists are not suggesting anything. Its the results that are suggesting. So, how sentence 2 is correct. please explain.

Similar question from OG -

The Olympic Games helped to keep peace among the pugnacious states of the Greek world, proclaiming a sacred truce during the festival’s month.

I know the sentence is incorrect for other reasons as well. However, it is also incorrect Since Olympic games cannot do the act of Proclaiming.

Also OG says that -

It is not clear who would be doing the proclaiming;

Pls help.
Thanks
Himanshu
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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2012, 09:59
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Hi,

In your sentence you are correct, the 'olympic games' are proclaiming - which can't happen as a person has to proclaim

The Olympic Games helped to keep peace among the pugnacious states of the Greek world, proclaiming a sacred truce during the festival’s month.

In sentence 2,

If you want to say:
"Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, SUGGESTING the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago."

- you should be replacing the word "suggesting" with "which suggest"

"Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, which suggest the cataclysmic impact..."

"Scientists have found high levels of iridium [fluff], [these high levels] suggest the cataclysmic impact..."
"Scientists have found high levels of X, which suggest the cataclysmic impact..."

So you can either say "results that suggest" or "results suggesting" or "[high levels], which suggest"

but to use a descriptive -ING verb "suggesting" would mean the phrase that follows "suggesting" would structurally describe SCIENTISTS - which is not correct.
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Last edited by plumber250 on 05 Dec 2012, 17:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2012, 10:11
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Hii James.
In the sentence 2,
Since "Scientists" is the subject of the main clause, so shouldn't "suggesting" be done by Scientists?
Moreover logically speaking, how can how can a result suggest? In fact on the basis of the results, Scientists may or may not suggest.
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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2012, 10:18
Hi,

You may be right on the first point, other opinions welcome, to make sense of the sentence it has to be the results suggesting.

That said I see nothing wrong with results suggesting something. For example I would have no problem with this sentence:

The results of the experiment suggest that the hypothesis was correct.

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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2012, 10:26
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But how can the object of the main clause, not the subject, can modify the ing+verb?
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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2012, 10:53
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Let me also join the fray;

When an adverbial modifier or verb + ing modifier consisting of a present participle is placed in a placed in the later part of a sentence and is set off using a comma, then the verb+ing modifies the entire previous clause, or the gist of the previous clause. It is the combination of the subject and subject’s doing some action.

2. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, SUGGESTING the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

Here, it is the Scientists’ finding of high levels of Iridium that is suggesting something. That is the gist of the main clause. So it is acceptable IMO

3. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago

When we talk of reports, results, findings etc, it is customary to modify them with a relative clause introduced by the conjunction that. To that extent, 3 is less idiomatic
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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2012, 11:42
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Hi Himashu,

This is my response to your PM:

Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, SUGGESTING the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

Your doubts about this sentence are valid. This sentence means that scientists suggested the cataclysmic impact. However, it the discovery of high levels of iridium in certain geological formations that has suggested the fact. Hence, even though this sentence is grammatically correct, it fails to communicate the logical meaning.

This is the reason why the mentioned OG sentence is also incorrect:
The Olympic Games helped to keep peace among the pugnacious states of the Greek world, proclaiming a sacred truce during the festival’s month.

The Olympic Games certainly cannot perform the function of “proclaiming” and hence does not make sense with the subject of the preceding modified clause.

The other form of the sentence that you have cited can be used to convey the logical meaning.

This would be my version of these sentences with Noun = Noun Modifier

Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, a discovery that suggests the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

OR

Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, a discovery suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 06 Dec 2012, 07:59
BINGO.. This is What I was thinking for.. Also, Since the sentence is not from Official source, I consider that to be incorrect, and your explanation has verified it also.

Thanks a ton. Kudos.

egmat wrote:
Hi Himashu,

This is my response to your PM:

Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, SUGGESTING the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

Your doubts about this sentence are valid. This sentence means that scientists suggested the cataclysmic impact. However, it the discovery of high levels of iridium in certain geological formations that has suggested the fact. Hence, even though this sentence is grammatically correct, it fails to communicate the logical meaning.

This is the reason why the mentioned OG sentence is also incorrect:
The Olympic Games helped to keep peace among the pugnacious states of the Greek world, proclaiming a sacred truce during the festival’s month.

The Olympic Games certainly cannot perform the function of “proclaiming” and hence does not make sense with the subject of the preceding modified clause.

The other form of the sentence that you have cited can be used to convey the logical meaning.

This would be my version of these sentences with Noun = Noun Modifier

Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, a discovery that suggests the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

OR

Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, a discovery suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha

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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 06 Dec 2012, 08:09
Hi Daagh,

I have seen your responses & most of the times your are bang on target. however, in the below sentences, I believe you missed one rule.

i.e Relative Modifiers and Present Participle can be changed interchangeably provided that tense of the modifier must make sense. So,

1)Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago

2)Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago

Above sentences are idiomatic and perfectly correct.

However, if we have-

The temperature on earth is rising, ultimately depleting the Ozone layer. (incorrect)
The temperature on earth is rising, a problem that will ultimately deplete the Ozone layer.(correct)

Explanation - Sentence A is incorrect because of adverb ultimately. Since the action of deplete will take place in future, it is non nonsensical to say that the ozone layer is depleting, which is what construction 1 says.
Const.2 clarifies the sequencing.

Thanks


daagh wrote:
Let me also join the fray;

When an adverbial modifier or verb + ing modifier consisting of a present participle is placed in a placed in the later part of a sentence and is set off using a comma, then the verb+ing modifies the entire previous clause, or the gist of the previous clause. It is the combination of the subject and subject’s doing some action.

2. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, SUGGESTING the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

Here, it is the Scientists’ finding of high levels of Iridium that is suggesting something. That is the gist of the main clause. So it is acceptable IMO

3. Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of Years ago

When we talk of reports, results, findings etc, it is customary to modify them with a relative clause introduced by the conjunction that. To that extent, 3 is less idiomatic

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Re: Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain [#permalink] New post 22 Dec 2013, 20:13
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