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Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale

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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 14:44
mbahunter wrote:
Yeah for the job I ended up accepting one of the interview questions was something like "why should we hire you over everyone else?" I started in on my great science background, MS in biotech etc etc and they said, thats nice, but everyone else we are interviewing has an advanced science degree and research experience too...I was like ohhh, well in that case how about my leadership experience....I guess it worked cuz I got the job.

Genentech on the other hand was like first question, so you don't have any real actual business experience?? and the interview tanked from there. They would prefer someone who had BD experience at say a chemical company over me who actually developed one of their blockbuster drugs...go figure!

Point is, it varies wildly from company to company and frankly from interviewer to interviewer. There will be a bunch of people on campus to interview, try as hard as you can to interview with the person that likes you most...I landed two jobs over people that I felt were better suited simply b/c I had better interview rapport and knew the person liked my science background and could tell the other interviewer didnt care for it as much.

I agree that BD jobs tend to prefer someone with a scientific or medical background, especially when the role looks at the product level. Corporate development, or positions focused on the broader corporate level, might look more for the business and financial background. Either way, it definitely seems to vary from company to company. Thanks for your input and congrats on the internships!
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 15:22
rca215 wrote:
Okay, my turn to bug you. I think this one might be a bit more complicated than the average "which school" thread, so I hope it doesn't bore you.

I have two admits - one from Yale with a 25% scholarship graduating in 2011 and one for Kellogg's one-year (1Y) program that starts in late June and ends in June 2010.

FYI, I applied to the 1Y program to minimize cost and time, the time issue mostly being that my girlfriend of 5 years cannot move with me and will stay in Boston. I have an undergrad business degree, so I meet the requirements for the 1Y program.

Background info: I have worked at one company for my entire career, a tiny biotech company where I have essentially been in a management rotation program in that I've had a lot of different, but significant, responsibilities. My post-MBA goal is to join a big biotech company (think Genzyme, Genentech, etc.) or something else in the drug development field working in general management, strategic planning and/or corporate development (consulting and VC are also of interest, yet less feasible). Long-term I would like to work at small biotech companies, possibly starting my own with technologies developed by my scientist friends. I'm also interested in biotech, particularly startups. Have a bio undergrad degree and work experience for a cancer imaging lab in Boston and a biotech startup in Cambridge, MA. Would be fun to discuss our plans during DAK II.

Here are the pros and cons I have identified so far:

YALE
Pros:
- Cachet with laymen (Yale) Not a major factor. You will be recruiting with people who understand Kellogg vs. Yale SOM.
- Cool curriculum
- Small class size
- Enter workforce later (2011)
- Good opportunities in social enterprise/non-profit/development, which my alternate career of interest May be your alternate career, but isn't what you spent so much time discussing above. Your passion appears to be biotech, based on what you've said. Also, Kellogg is extremely strong in the nonprofit arena as well (e.g., SEEK).
- Generally a simpler, more convenient "transition" from my current situation
- Hanging out at ninkorn's swank apartment

Cons:
- Almost non-existent biotech/pharma recruiting (not sure if this is due to a lack of student interest) Is this the death blow?
- Much less respected MBA program (ugly duckling of Yale University) I would put a lot of weight on this.
- 2 years of trying to maintain a long-distance relationship Having had a long-distance GF from Boston to Seattle and from Atlanta to Africa, Boston to New Haven is not long distance in my book.
- Small alumni network
- Let's face it: New Haven (bad city, but geographically convenient)

KELLOGG
Pros:
- Highly respected/ranked overall I'd put a lot of weight on this. Given that you're interested in startups, Kellogg could be an enormous help to your career. If you're interested in business dev, this would also be a major plus in K's column.
- Very strong biotech/pharma program Given your description of your career goals, this is a major factor.
- Almost 100% electives
- Tight-knit 1Y class within a big overall alumni network
- Slightly less expensive (assuming no non-debt financial aid received from Kellogg)
- Best class I attended during all B school visits
- Only 1 year of trying to maintain a long-distance relationship Boston to Chicago is long distance in my book.

Cons:
- Less time to enjoy the overall B school experience
- Enter workforce earlier (2010)
- Less time to gain leadership positions in clubs
- Surrounded only by 1Y consultants going back to M/B/B? (not sure) Wouldn't be a con for me. Might make your experience more interesting.
- Looked upon less favorably by recruiters than 2Y program? (not sure) Hmm, don't know. I think they'll probably care more about your experiences, abilities, coursework, the schools you've attended, etc.
- No internship opportunity Major con. Not enough to tip me to Yale. But something to seriously consider.
- Have to start earlier (June vs. September)
- Strong competition in biotech/pharma recruiting I think this is actually a big plus. More recruiting. More people to bounce ideas off of and to help you in your search. This is one of the major advantages of a top school - you're surrounded by people who sharpen you, who make you push yourself even harder. Given that Kellogg is so community- and teamwork-focused, this could be a major help to you.

What say you? Thanks!

Altogether, I think it's a very personal decision. I think it boils down to:
(a) the extent to which you're serious and passionate about biotech;
(b) internship vs. not;
(c) long-distance relationship vs. not.

I would do Yale if the answer to (a) is "not really" AND the answer to (b) is "internship is very important to me." You really have to think about it if the answer to (c) is "a 1-year long-distance situation could cause my relationship to crumble, and my relationship is extremely important to me, perhaps more than career." Otherwise, I think Kellogg's advantages, particularly in biotech, are too significant and far outweigh the downsides to a 1Y program.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 15:32
OhThatMBA wrote:
Altogether, I think it's a very personal decision. I think it boils down to (a) the extent to which you're serious and passionate about biotech; (b) internship vs. not; (c) long-distance relationship vs. not. I would do Yale if the answer to (a) is "not really" AND the answer to (b) is "internship is very important to me." You really have to think about it if the answer to (c) is "a 1-year long-distance situation could cause my relationship to crumble, and my relationship is extremely important to me, perhaps more than career." Otherwise, I think Kellogg's advantages, particularly in biotech, are too significant and far outweigh the downsides to a 1Y program.

Thanks for the very thoughtful analysis. On points (a) and (c), I am not too concerned. I am definitely committed to biotech, a commitment that is strengthened by the tough economic conditions. And I think that 1 year Chicago-Boston is probably easier for me than 2 years New Haven-Boston. The internship issue is trickier. I don't necessarily mind not having the internship, or else applying to the 1Y program would have been pointless, but if it will put me at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting then it is a major consideration. It seems to be the case that a lack of internship will not hamper recruiting efforts for non-career changing, but I tend to think of it this way: all else being equal, will the employer choose the guy who had a good biotech internship (even if not at that company) than the guy who didn't?

Given our similar career interests, I think we should definitely plan to connect if we go to DAK! (sadly Yale's welcome weekend is the same weekend, but I'm prioritizing DAK given the uniqueness of the 1Y program)
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 16:07
You may already know this but southwest (who funnels a ton of flights through Chicago) is finally going to set up shop in Logan soon. Wouldn't surprise me if you/your SO can get nonstop RT at $150 a pop come this fall.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles ... _to_logan/
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 16:08
bostonsparky wrote:
You may already know this but southwest (who funnels a ton of flights through Chicago) is finally going to set up shop in Logan soon. Wouldn't surprise me if you/your SO can get nonstop RT at $150 a pop come this fall.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles ... _to_logan/

I did see that recently. Definitely good news for those of us in the Boston area! (bad news for the fine people of Manchester, NH and Providence, RI)
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 16:49
rca215 wrote:
It seems to be the case that a lack of internship will not hamper recruiting efforts for non-career changing, but I tend to think of it this way: all else being equal, will the employer choose the guy who had a good biotech internship (even if not at that company) than the guy who didn't?


Honestly, I doubt it will make that big of a difference if you aren't a career changer. If you have 4 years experience in biotech BD and the other guy has 4 years experience in biotech BD plus a 12 week internship, how much difference will that really make? (Unless, of course, the guy did the internship with the recruiter's company).

For a career changer? It probably has a large impact. If you can demonstrate a continued interest along with a quality performance during your internship, I think it would help your candidacy immensely.

RF
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 18:58
Congrats on both admits rca! This is a tough choice :)

I don't know very much about how a 1yr program compares with a 2yr program beyond the basic curriculum/internship differences. But some general thoughts:

- How strong is your interest in biotech? Any chance you'd change your mind and want to do something like cpg marketing or finance?
- What is Yale's placement into biotech companies like? I would imagine that a lot of their students interested in this area do off-campus recruiting, but what are their success rates? What types of companies do they end up at?
- What is the vibe like in the 1yr program at Kellogg? Is the student body fairly close-knit? Are they fairly set apart from the 2yr program? (I think they have a 1yr program representative in the KSA - maybe worth reaching out to him/her?)
- What's the alumni network for 1yr students at Kellogg like? Do they have access to the same network as the 2yr program students?

My personal inclination is towards the Kellogg 1 yr program, but I don't know much about how the 1yr aspect impacts the experience.

Hope this helps :)
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 19:46
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isa wrote:
What is the vibe like in the 1yr program at Kellogg? Is the student body fairly close-knit? Are they fairly set apart from the 2yr program? (I think they have a 1yr program representative in the KSA - maybe worth reaching out to him/her?)?

The 1Y's are very tight knit, they spend all summer pretty much only with each other around. They integrate well with the rest of the community come fall but being together all summer definitely brings them together. I know plenty of 1Ys also do KWEST and things like that. They also do have representatives on all the different KSA boards along with reps on some other boards.

isa wrote:
What's the alumni network for 1yr students at Kellogg like? Do they have access to the same network as the 2yr program students? ?

The alumni network is totally open to all, I can see everyone who has ever been to Kellogg (2Y, 1Y, MMM, PT, EMBA, and even executive certificate programs). In someways the 1Y have an advantage of not only having the fulltime MBA degree but the super tight knit 1Y community.

As for sponsored students vs non sponsored and the benefits of internship here are my opinions. 1Y's are definitely sponsored at a higher rate than the regular 1Y program. BCG strongly favors the 1Y, McKinsey and Bain favor the 2Y though. Others who are continuing on the same path can sometimes manage to secure sponsorships too. The majority of 1Y's definitely arent sponsored though but some do have the option of returning to their previous employer even if they arent sponsored.

Internship, well the honest answer is that it has minimal value if you are continuing on the same functional and industry path. If you wanted to change one or the other or both, then an internship is very important...however if you are just continuing along then its not nearly as big of a need. I think this year was the worst it could be for FT recruiting, our class is already going to be more diversely dispersed than previous classes. Companies reduced their numbers this year and some had no additional spots beyond interns but they drastically reduced interns so now they will have open spots again going forward. Honestly with 3+ years of experience in the industry you will have an advantage recruiting over people who have 3 months doing an internship.

As for the recommendation of doing an internship in something else just to explore that is a terrible recommendation these days. People giving that advice are living in the past. It definitely was popular in previous years and a different job market but the advice we got this year was do not even consider that if you have options in your long term goal area. First of all your success getting internships is good in areas your background plays well and not so good with drastic changes. Companies will question why your internship wasnt in the same industry or function that you want full time. Saying you just wanted to see what else was out there isnt going to be a good answer, and saying that you didnt enjoy it as much will make them wonder why you wanted to try something else instead. I know some people who thought about doing this, but the CMC said they would risk hurting their chances fulltime. You always want to intern at a company that you would want to work at fulltime.

I say the money you save doing the 1Y, the quicker return to the working world, and the large advantage of Kellogg in your desired industry make it a no brainer. Healthcare internship recruiting held up very well this year, I think it is a good indication of what fulltime will be like next year. I am not knocking Yale or their brand but in healthcare Wharton and Kellogg are the two most recognized brands. Remember you dont care what the lay person thinks about the name of your school...you care about recruiters think. Judging by the list of HC that recruits here I dont think that any school outside of Wharton (and maybe trailing fairly closely Duke) can match the opportunities coming out of Kellogg in the industry.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2009, 20:42
I agree with river for the most part. I did med device and biotech recruiting this winter and from researching companies and talking to many recruiters in the field, I believe Kellogg will prepare you better for a career in biotech. Kellogg has a well-oiled system for prepping students for success in HC, an impression I formed after meeting several K students at company visits to HC firms.So long as the 1Y program provides you access to HC recruiters on campus (except the internship of course which I think is a non-issue in your case), I think you should seriously consider going there.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2009, 04:49
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I am kind of amazed that the voting is so close for this. Even though I voted for Yale I assumed it would be a Kellogg run-away. The closeness of the vote must not help you very much. Also take into consideration that the participation in this thread is saturated with students of Kellogg, acceptees to Kellogg, and applicants to Kellogg.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2009, 07:07
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Raabend wrote:
I am kind of amazed that the voting is so close for this. Even though I voted for Yale I assumed it would be a Kellogg run-away. The closeness of the vote must not help you very much. Also take into consideration that the participation in this thread is saturated with students of Kellogg, acceptees to Kellogg, and applicants to Kellogg.

I think the reason it is so close are most people here are career/industry switchers so they see an internship as vital. So they are putting their personal view on it without realizing RCA does not need an internship at all if he already has been working in that industry. Basically the 1Y is waiving out of most of the core and only taking electives, and skipping a summer internship. Also, even though Kellogg is heavily represented here I think most people have been pretty unbiased with the information.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2009, 13:11
I voted for Yale and it had nothing to do with Kellogg vs Yale. It had to do with 2 year > 1 year. Even without the importance of an internship, I would much rather do a full 2 year program than an abbreviated 1 year program. This is your last chance to go back to college! Even in 2 full years people generally feel like they didn't have enough time to do everything they wanted. I also think that in this economy it's a huge advantage to graduate later, you do not want to be wrapping up school in 2010 if you can avoid it (even 2011 will probably still be pretty bad). I also have a hard time believing that there's not some stigma attached to a 1 year program v a 2 year program, even if that stigma is minor. For those reasons I say go for the 2 year program at Yale.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2009, 13:43
I voted Kellogg. Here's why:

1) You have clear post-MBA goals. You're not a career switcher. The internship is not as important as for someone who wants to try out a new field.

2) Recruiting in pharma/biotech is unlikely to be vary much from 2010 to 2011.

3) Kellogg has great pharma recruiting.

4) only 1 year away from s/o. The 3 hour drive v/s 2 hour flight is not as significant.

5) Many 2nd year MBA students who I've spoken to say that 2 years is a bit TOO LONG to be at school (believe this or not) - this sentiment was voiced by both my Kellogg interviewer, and several Cornell Johnson students who urged me to switch my application to the 1 year AMBA.

6) Academically, Kellogg is definitely better for your field - the mentorship program for heathcare, top-notch faculty - Harry Kraemer (former CEO of Baxter) etc.

Hope you get into HBS and in that case all this will be irrelevant!
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2009, 14:08
Agree with previous poster, 2 years or more is a lot of time to be in grad school (unless your goal is to be a teacher and actually stay in school)

Kellogg has this wonderful 1-year option to reward undergrad business majors who had taken those required core courses, so why not capitalize on it. We are all excited to attend MBA program but I guess after an initial euphoria, you fall back on earth and want to get it over with and take a break from exams and lectures.

However, if u think u would like to stay on campus and party for a while pick Yale :)
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2009, 07:34
I wanted to thank you all for the detailed posts. They have been very helpful and have boosted my confidence that either route is a good one. I have been quite surprised at how even the voting has been, but it is probably a referendum on 2Y vs. 1Y as others have noted.

It appears Kellogg is starting to pull ahead, which times well with my personal feeling on the matter. Going to Kellogg is probably the more reasonable thing to do and, for now, it is probably what I plan to do. But who knows, maybe my mind will change in the next few months (or DAK will have me busting out my checkbook and signing on the spot).

Thanks again for the input.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2009, 09:34
wonderhaven wrote:

Many 2nd year MBA students who I've spoken to say that 2 years is a bit TOO LONG to be at school (believe this or not)


I'm gonna go with not :lol: Most 2nd years I've spoken with said that they wished school wouldn't end just yet and they weren't quite ready to go back to the harsh realities of the real world. They say that their two years in school went by WAY TOO FAST. I guess it depends on how much you like your school and the people there and whether you see getting an MBA as an experinence you look forward to (learning cool new stuff, making new friends, partying, having a less structured schedule/life) or just a means to an end (a new job) that you want to get through as quickly as possilbe.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2009, 09:47
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
wonderhaven wrote:

Many 2nd year MBA students who I've spoken to say that 2 years is a bit TOO LONG to be at school (believe this or not)


I'm gonna go with not :lol: They say that their two years in school went by WAY TOO FAST.


I concur with IHTG. Of the alums that I've spoken with from multiple schools (CBS, Darden, Ross, Stern, Johnson, Anderson), I've never heard anything other than how they wish they had more time, because everything goes by in a flash.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2009, 10:42
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
wonderhaven wrote:

Many 2nd year MBA students who I've spoken to say that 2 years is a bit TOO LONG to be at school (believe this or not)


I'm gonna go with not :lol: Most 2nd years I've spoken with said that they wished school wouldn't end just yet and they weren't quite ready to go back to the harsh realities of the real world.


I've heard the exact same thing from alumni. One told me "You'll never get another chance to hang out with so many smart, driven and interesting people and have so much fun doing it. Going back to the real world SUCKS."

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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2009, 10:56
Yeah, I would much prefer the full two years if it weren't for the other factors in play.
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Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2009, 11:48
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
wonderhaven wrote:

Many 2nd year MBA students who I've spoken to say that 2 years is a bit TOO LONG to be at school (believe this or not)


I'm gonna go with not :lol: Most 2nd years I've spoken with said that they wished school wouldn't end just yet and they weren't quite ready to go back to the harsh realities of the real world. They say that their two years in school went by WAY TOO FAST. I guess it depends on how much you like your school and the people there and whether you see getting an MBA as an experinence you look forward to (learning cool new stuff, making new friends, partying, having a less structured schedule/life) or just a means to an end (a new job) that you want to get through as quickly as possilbe.


Forget the harsh realities of the real world - how about the harsh realities of b-school today? This isn't an either/or thing - not too many people I know want to spend a lot of money to learn, make friends, party and sleep-in late - they ALSO want a great new job at the end of the day.

An alumnus who graduated in a boom market like 2006 with 3 job offers and a cool internship to "try out" a different field/function is going to have a totally different view point from a current 2nd year student who just dropped a 100K+ and didn't get to try out a new field of interest for his/her internship (which was a big reason for pursuing an MBA in the first place) and is in the midst of struggling to find ANY full-time job.

Obviously, as a 2 year applicant I WANT to believe people who say that the 2 years at B-school were the best years of their life and that the time went too soon etc. etc. - just makes it hard for me to discount the opinions of current students at schools I applied to who are either struggling to find jobs/ internships or in a position where they have an offer in hand but want to start working soon as they have concerns that the offer might be rescinded.
Re: Sick of these yet? Decide my fate: Kellogg (1Y) vs. Yale   [#permalink] 13 Mar 2009, 11:48
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