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Since it has become known that several of a bank's top

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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 16 Apr 2014, 18:04
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nidhi12 wrote:
OA?
What is the official answer? A?
Why not B?


The OA is A.

B is incorrect because the second boldface is not the main conclusion of the argument. the main conclusion of the argument is "Such reasoning might well be overoptimistic"
Conclusions are not facts; they are opinions of the author. The second boldface is a premise, a fact given to you. It is not the author's opinion and hence not the conclusion.
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Re: How is first BF a conclusion [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2014, 12:06
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To e-gmat

As per session given by Chiranjeev, something that author believes i.e his opinion can be regarded as intermediate conclusion.
Here in the correct choice - A, the first boldface is taken as a conclusion.
I actually scoped it out because of the reason given above.
Also, Why E is wrong here.
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2014, 20:34
I am Never Good at these type of CR. Please help me with some Document on these.

I marked (D) and Guess I was completely wrong with this one.
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 06 Jul 2014, 19:34
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karna2129 wrote:
I am Never Good at these type of CR. Please help me with some Document on these.

I marked (D) and Guess I was completely wrong with this one.


I assume you are having trouble with bold face questions. Here are a couple of posts on these that might help you:

http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2013/03 ... -the-gmat/
http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2014/01 ... questions/

For the solution of this question, check: since-it-has-become-known-that-several-of-a-bank-s-top-136001.html#p1112808
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 07 Jul 2014, 21:00
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rajgurinder wrote:
To e-gmat

As per session given by Chiranjeev, something that author believes i.e his opinion can be regarded as intermediate conclusion.
Here in the correct choice - A, the first boldface is taken as a conclusion.
I actually scoped it out because of the reason given above.
Also, Why E is wrong here.


Hi Gurinder

Thanks for writing to us. :)

Before we go on to discussing the correct answer choice, I would like to request you to share your passage analysis with us. Accordingly, please identify each statement as a fact or an opinion and the role played by the boldface portions with respect to the main conclusion of the argument.

Also, please share your understanding of answer choices A and E.

I would specifically want you to reconsider option A. Does it describe first boldface portion as a conclusion? Or does choice A call the first boldface as evidence?

(A) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second gives a reason for questioning that support.

Your analysis would help me in not only addressing this particular doubt but also any possible gaps in your conceptual understanding. Hope you’ll appreciate the same. :)

Thanks!
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 13 Jul 2014, 08:22
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Since it has become known that several of a bank's top executives have been buying shares in their own bank, the bank's depositors, who had been worried by rumors that the bank faced impending financial collapse, have been greatly relieved. They reason that, since top executives evidently have faith in the bank's financial soundness, those worrisome rumors must be false. Such reasoning might well be overoptimistic, however, since corporate executives have been known to buy shares in their own company in a calculated attempt to dispel negative rumors about the company's health.


My analysis

please correct if i am wrong:-
A circumstance is something that is happening currently.

several of a bank's top executives have been buying shares in their own bank - FACT/Circumstance
the bank's depositors, who had been worried by rumors that the bank faced impending financial collapse, have been greatly relieved. - A circumstance
Such reasoning might well be overoptimistic - Conclusion
Corporate executives have been known to buy shares in their own company in a calculated attempt to dispel negative rumors about the company's health - Evidence/Fact supporting a conclusion

Options:-
A) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second gives a reason for questioning that support.

As per session given by Chiranjeev, something that author believes i.e his opinion can be regarded as intermediate conclusion.
Here in the correct choice - A, the first boldface is taken as a conclusion.

(E) The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain; the second provides evidence in support of the explanation that the argument seeks to establish.

Here the argument is explaining why the FIRST BOLDFACE happens, in SECOND BOLDFACE he provides evidence for the explaining that argument seeks to establish(conclusion)
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 16 Jul 2014, 01:44
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rajgurinder wrote:
Since it has become known that several of a bank's top executives have been buying shares in their own bank, the bank's depositors, who had been worried by rumors that the bank faced impending financial collapse, have been greatly relieved. They reason that, since top executives evidently have faith in the bank's financial soundness, those worrisome rumors must be false. Such reasoning might well be overoptimistic, however, since corporate executives have been known to buy shares in their own company in a calculated attempt to dispel negative rumors about the company's health.


My analysis

please correct if i am wrong:-
A circumstance is something that is happening currently.

several of a bank's top executives have been buying shares in their own bank - FACT/Circumstance
the bank's depositors, who had been worried by rumors that the bank faced impending financial collapse, have been greatly relieved. - A circumstance
Such reasoning might well be overoptimistic - Conclusion
Corporate executives have been known to buy shares in their own company in a calculated attempt to dispel negative rumors about the company's health - Evidence/Fact supporting a conclusion


Hi Gurinder

Thanks for your response! :)

Your analysis of the statements is quite correct; however, you haven’t presented your analysis for the following statement:

“They reason that, since top executives evidently have faith in the bank's financial soundness, those worrisome rumors must be false.”


Also, is a circumstance always something that is happening currently or can it also be a set of facts that are not time bound?

"Such reasoning might well be overoptimistic" – This is the main conclusion of the argument.
Quote:

Options:-
A) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second gives a reason for questioning that support.

As per session given by Chiranjeev, something that author believes i.e his opinion can be regarded as intermediate conclusion.
Here in the correct choice - A, the first boldface is taken as a conclusion.
As I mentioned in my previous comment, I would want you to reconsider option A. Does it describe first boldface portion as a conclusion? Or does choice A call the first boldface as evidence?
(A) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second gives a reason for questioning that support.


You have not understood option A correctly. BF is stated as evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion. In other words, BF is evidence that supports something. What is this something? It is a conclusion. Now is this conclusion the author’s conclusion? To determine the same, you need to define the role of the statement that you have missed in your analysis. Accordingly, please decide whether the conclusion presented in the highlighted portion is by the author or the bank depositors:

They reason that, since top executives evidently have faith in the bank's financial soundness, those worrisome rumors must be false.

Second thing, in BF questions is there a difference between a conclusion and the conclusion? Can’t a third party make “a” conclusion in such arguments? Accordingly, the conclusion highlighted above is an intermediate conclusion by the author or “a” conclusion made by a third party?

Quote:
(E) The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain; the second provides evidence in support of the explanation that the argument seeks to establish.

Here the argument is explaining why the FIRST BOLDFACE happens, in SECOND BOLDFACE he provides evidence for the explaining that argument seeks to establish(conclusion)


Let me ask you a question here. Is the purpose of the argument to explain why the bank depositor’s act in a certain way or is to call in question the reason for their behaviour? Look at the main conclusion again and decide over this.

Please do let me know what you think. :)

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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2014, 02:16
nidhi12 wrote:
OA?
What is the official answer? A?
Why not B?

Its clearly A..
the second statement is not a conclusion at all..the main conclusion is the one that tells us about the optimism..the second statement is infact a fact or a reason that supports the main conclusion..


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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 15 Oct 2014, 09:54
Although I did mark A,I'm finding it difficult to strike out D.
I'm pretty sure during the actual thing would've marked as D and wondered where I had gone wrong with my verbal!
BF1 does seem like a circumstance that the argument seeks to explain later.And BF2 is definitely an explanation for it.Why did the bankers buy shares of a bank that may fail.BF2 clearly explains that.
I might be totally going wrong here though.
Experts please help me out.
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 15 Oct 2014, 20:39
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Although I did mark A,I'm finding it difficult to strike out D.
I'm pretty sure during the actual thing would've marked as D and wondered where I had gone wrong with my verbal!
BF1 does seem like a circumstance that the argument seeks to explain later.And BF2 is definitely an explanation for it.Why did the bankers buy shares of a bank that may fail.BF2 clearly explains that.
I might be totally going wrong here though.
Experts please help me out.



Ask yourself: What does the argument seek to establish?
The author's primary concern here is "don't be too optimistic about the bank"
He starts by explaining what has made people optimistic and why it may not be advisable to rely on that development and be optimistic.

Now, does "several of a bank's top executives have been buying shares in their own bank," describe what the argument seeks to establish? Mind you, the option has to fit exactly... "it's something like this" does not work. Every sentence in the argument is obviously related to what the author seeks to establish but the sentence must be exactly what the author actually seeks to establish (or conclusion). First bold face is not what the author seeks to establish and hence (D) is not correct.
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 16 Oct 2014, 21:15
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
DebWenger wrote:
Although I did mark A,I'm finding it difficult to strike out D.
I'm pretty sure during the actual thing would've marked as D and wondered where I had gone wrong with my verbal!
BF1 does seem like a circumstance that the argument seeks to explain later.And BF2 is definitely an explanation for it.Why did the bankers buy shares of a bank that may fail.BF2 clearly explains that.
I might be totally going wrong here though.
Experts please help me out.



Ask yourself: What does the argument seek to establish?
The author's primary concern here is "don't be too optimistic about the bank"
He starts by explaining what has made people optimistic and why it may not be advisable to rely on that development and be optimistic.

Now, does "several of a bank's top executives have been buying shares in their own bank," describe what the argument seeks to establish? Mind you, the option has to fit exactly... "it's something like this" does not work. Every sentence in the argument is obviously related to what the author seeks to establish but the sentence must be exactly what the author actually seeks to establish (or conclusion). First bold face is not what the author seeks to establish and hence (D) is not correct.


Thanks for the explanation
Also,for the 1st BF the option "The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain","as a whole" is what should have put me of in the first place.
As a whole the argument wants to point out to the depositors ,that don't be too optimistic.Can this be the main point/conclusion of the entire argument?Would love to know your thoughts on this.
Also,is the main point of an argument in most cases the conclusion as well?
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2014, 04:09
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DebWenger wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
DebWenger wrote:
Although I did mark A,I'm finding it difficult to strike out D.
I'm pretty sure during the actual thing would've marked as D and wondered where I had gone wrong with my verbal!
BF1 does seem like a circumstance that the argument seeks to explain later.And BF2 is definitely an explanation for it.Why did the bankers buy shares of a bank that may fail.BF2 clearly explains that.
I might be totally going wrong here though.
Experts please help me out.



Ask yourself: What does the argument seek to establish?
The author's primary concern here is "don't be too optimistic about the bank"
He starts by explaining what has made people optimistic and why it may not be advisable to rely on that development and be optimistic.

Now, does "several of a bank's top executives have been buying shares in their own bank," describe what the argument seeks to establish? Mind you, the option has to fit exactly... "it's something like this" does not work. Every sentence in the argument is obviously related to what the author seeks to establish but the sentence must be exactly what the author actually seeks to establish (or conclusion). First bold face is not what the author seeks to establish and hence (D) is not correct.


Thanks for the explanation
Also,for the 1st BF the option "The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain","as a whole" is what should have put me of in the first place.
As a whole the argument wants to point out to the depositors ,that don't be too optimistic.Can this be the main point/conclusion of the entire argument?Would love to know your thoughts on this.
Also,is the main point of an argument in most cases the conclusion as well?


The conclusion is the main point of the argument. It is the author's opinion; what the author wants to put forward to the reader.
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2014, 04:26
ok,got it Karishma,
basically conclusion=main point of the Arg
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 01 Nov 2014, 23:20
we are having Bunuel as a "GOD" in quant....Who is there in Vebal?..........Need One!
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 08 Nov 2014, 05:44
nidhi12 wrote:
OA?
What is the official answer? A?
Why not B?


(B) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second states a contrary conclusion that is the main conclusion of the argument.

B is not correct because the second boldface is not a main conclusion but a premise to support the main conclusion of the argument.
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Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2015, 10:40
Hi Experts, I picked E. I could find both conclusions etc. But my biggest problem is the alternative wording for conclusion, I just don't understand how many alternative words are there for conclusions and how to identify them:

(A) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion PREMISE


(D) the second gives the explanation that the argument seeks to establish --> does it mean a CONCLUSION ?
(E) The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain --> does it mean a CONCLUSION ?
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2015, 21:53
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BrainLab wrote:
Hi Experts, I picked E. I could find both conclusions etc. But my biggest problem is the alternative wording for conclusion, I just don't understand how many alternative words are there for conclusions and how to identify them:

(A) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion PREMISE


(D) the second gives the explanation that the argument seeks to establish --> does it mean a CONCLUSION ?

The explanation that the argument would establish would be the conclusion endorsed by the argument so yes, it says that the second statement is a conclusion. Actually, in this question, the second statement is a premise.

(E) The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain --> does it mean a CONCLUSION ?


The entire argument is explaining a circumstance. This would make more sense in say, a paradox situation where one statement gives the paradox and the rest of the argument explains it. So this would not be your usual conclusion.
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 19 Feb 2015, 01:40
Hi Karishma, thanks a lot for the response. I actually would like to know, whether the statements below are alternative wordings for a conclusion

argument as a whole seeks to explain
the argument seeks to establish

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Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 17 Apr 2015, 12:38
To simplify this question, let'ssay that neither of the Bold parts is a conclusion
1st BF -> supports a conclusion... the depositors are greatly relieved, BECAUSE the CEO's buy shares
2nd BF -> supports the MAIN CONCLUSION ... (C) Such reasoning is overoptimistic, BECAUSE CEO's have known to by shares to dispel rumors

So, from this point it becomes a piece of cake :)


(A) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second gives a reason for questioning that support.
--> So, 4 choices were 100% wrong, this one must be a correct answer
(B) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second states a contrary conclusion that is the main conclusion of the argument. --> Second BF is not a conclusion, and not the main conclusion
(C) The first provides evidence in support of the main conclusion of the argument; the second states that conclusion. --> Second BF is not a conclusion
(D) The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain; the second gives the explanation that the argument seeks to establish --> First BF is not a conclusion
(E) The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain; the second provides evidence in support of the explanation that the argument seeks to establish --> First BF is not a conclusion
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Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top [#permalink] New post 20 Apr 2015, 23:43
betterscore wrote:
Since it has become known that several of a bank's top executives have been buying shares in their own bank, the bank's depositors, who had been worried by rumors that the bank faced impending financial collapse, have been greatly relieved. They reason that, since top executives evidently have faith in the bank's financial soundness, those worrisome rumors must be false. Such reasoning might well be overoptimistic, however, since corporate executives have been known to buy shares in their own company in a calculated attempt to dispel negative rumors about the company's health.

In the argument given, the two boldfaced portions play which of the following roles?

(A) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second gives a reason for questioning that support.
(B) The first describes evidence that has been taken as supporting a conclusion; the second states a contrary conclusion that is the main conclusion of the argument.
(C) The first provides evidence in support of the main conclusion of the argument; the second states that conclusion.
(D) The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain; the second gives the explanation that the argument seeks to establish.
(E) The first describes the circumstance that the argument as a whole seeks to explain; the second provides evidence in support of the explanation that the argument seeks to establish.


very hard to see the bold phrases, pls, make // ...// to clear the bold phrase.

thank you
Re: Since it has become known that several of a bank's top   [#permalink] 20 Apr 2015, 23:43

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