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Sound can travel through water for enormous distances,

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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 26 Feb 2013, 23:10
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Reading the discussion on this thread surely took my head for a spin. I don't know if I could also blame the time (its past midnight here). Anyways, I will give my two cents on this discussion.

But first of all, @marcab, welcome back!!
After reading through your doubts here, I think I can figure out why you are confused between choices B and C. There is two-fold reason for your confusion

1: Use of verb-ed modifier - verb-ed modifiers modify the closest noun phrase. In the context of GMAT, I have not seen a single question in which these modifiers modify the preceding clause. Yes in normal English usage, we do use these modifiers the way we use verb-ing modifiers to modify the preceding clause. Now that being said, your explanation about the use of "prevented" to modify the subject "sound" is not correct.

2: The use of modifier "by boundaries" - The way these choices are constructed lead to two different modifications in the sentence.

Choice B: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.

prevented from what?
prevented from having its acoustic energy what?
prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by what?
prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by boundaries.
Per the logical intended meaning, do the boundaries "dissipate the energy"? No. Boundaries prevent the dissipation.
Another thing - "by boundaries" is too far away from "prevented" to modify it.

Now lets look at choice C
Choice C: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.

prevented from what?
prevented from dissipating
prevented by what?
prevented by boundaries
so together we have - prevented from dissipating by boundaries
By contrast, in this choice, "by boundaries" is in good proximity of "prevented" to modify it correctly.

I hope this helps with the meaning clarification!
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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2013, 06:59
Expert's post
egmat wrote:
Reading the discussion on this thread surely took my head for a spin. I don't know if I could also blame the time (its past midnight here). Anyways, I will give my two cents on this discussion.

But first of all, @marcab, welcome back!!
After reading through your doubts here, I think I can figure out why you are confused between choices B and C. There is two-fold reason for your confusion

1: Use of verb-ed modifier - verb-ed modifiers modify the closest noun phrase. In the context of GMAT, I have not seen a single question in which these modifiers modify the preceding clause. Yes in normal English usage, we do use these modifiers the way we use verb-ing modifiers to modify the preceding clause. Now that being said, your explanation about the use of "prevented" to modify the subject "sound" is not correct.

2: The use of modifier "by boundaries" - The way these choices are constructed lead to two different modifications in the sentence.

Choice B: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.

prevented from what?
prevented from having its acoustic energy what?
prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by what?
prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by boundaries.
Per the logical intended meaning, do the boundaries "dissipate the energy"? No. Boundaries prevent the dissipation.
Another thing - "by boundaries" is too far away from "prevented" to modify it.

Now lets look at choice C
Choice C: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.

prevented from what?
prevented from dissipating
prevented by what?
prevented by boundaries
so together we have - prevented from dissipating by boundaries
By contrast, in this choice, "by boundaries" is in good proximity of "prevented" to modify it correctly.

I hope this helps with the meaning clarification!



e-GMAT,
Could you please come up with the detail analysis and explanation for this...I'm not able to get it :(

I thought correct ans: E
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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2013, 00:31
absolute phrase in c shows the context of main clause.

the meaning in c is

in the context that, energy of sound is prevented from dissipating by...., sound can travel a long distance.

the meaing relation between absolute phrase, and main clause should be understood clearly. Unforturenately, there is no grammar book which said about this point.

any one know about the meaning relation between absolute phrase and main clause, pls, share. sc is meaning game. this means we have to diferentiate between the distorted meaning and intended meaning and so, we have to know this meaning relation.
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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2013, 06:46
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Quoting your doubt
Quote:
any one know about the meaning relation between absolute phrase and main clause


The trick in order to identify absolute phrase is to check whether the clause contains a verb or not. If the clause contains a verb then it cannot be the AP.
Moreover, an AP will always answer HOW of the preceding clause.
Hope that helps.
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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2013, 10:45
Marcab wrote:
Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, prevented from dissipating its acoustic energy as a result of boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.
1)same as underlined
2)prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by
3) its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by
4) its acoustic energy prevented from being dissipated as a result of
5) preventing its acoustic energy from dissipating by

I need proper explanations that why correct answer is correct and why incorrect ones are not correct.

If you think that this is a good question, then kudo me.

Will post the OA after some discussion.


Answer C (I am learning, so forum experts please correct)

Choice 1 - uses "as a result of" (there cannot be a result of boundaries)
Choice 2 - ed verb (modifying closest noun/ other reason already mentioned in post)
Choice 3 - correct pronoun referent, ed form of verb and use of by
Choice 4 - uses as a result of
Choice 5 - ing verb, modifying entire clause
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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 01 Sep 2013, 20:59
Somehow I don't agree with the previous explanation about verb-ed modifiers.

"prevented from blah blah......",Sound can travel through water ...............

Is Correct !

however , the problem with (B) is that

having its acoustic energy dissipated by boundaries.

Acoustic energy is not dissipated by boundaries as per the meaning.

Furthermore, the placement of "by boundaries " is anywhere correct as it is a Verb modifier
with less restrictions to its placement.
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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 04 Sep 2013, 06:35
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Quote:
Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, prevented from dissipating its acoustic energy as a result of boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.
1)same as underlined
2)prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by
3) its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by
4) its acoustic energy prevented from being dissipated as a result of
5) preventing its acoustic energy from dissipating by


Responding to a PM
The basic difference between B and C is the subject.
In B, subject is "sound'. So B implies that "sound" is prevented from having its acoustic energy bla bla bla.
C, in which the subject is "acoustic energy", on the other hand implies that "sound's acoustic energy is prevented from dissipating bla bla bla". Moreover the construction that is used in C is of "absolute phrase". Whenever you come across this construction, just ask HOW after the clause just before the absolute phrase. If the Absolute phrase answers your "how" question correctly in exact words then that choice is the answer.
"Sound can travel through water for enormous distances". HOW?
ANSWER: its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.

Hope that helps.
Let me know if more clarification is required.
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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 04 Sep 2013, 12:58
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Marcab wrote:
Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, prevented from dissipating its acoustic energy as a result of boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.
1)same as underlined
2)prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by
3) its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by
4) its acoustic energy prevented from being dissipated as a result of
5) preventing its acoustic energy from dissipating by

I need proper explanations that why correct answer is correct and why incorrect ones are not correct.

If you think that this is a good question, then kudo me.

Will post the OA after some discussion.



Step 1)

I noticed the first phrase before the comma was a complete thought: "Sound can travel through water for enormous distances"

So that means what follows the comma must be a descriptive phrase.

Step 2)

I noticed one of the answer choices was a descriptive -ING verb phrase - so I ask myself: does it make sense that the SOUND is the one that is PREVENTING its acoustic energy from dissipating by X?

No - it does not make sense that sound prevents something.

So that leads me to look at (C) and (D) more carefully.

Step 3)

Between these two choices, (C) is clearly simpler - with fewer words. It also does not have the red flag word "being"in there. So at this point, (C) appears to be the best of the available answer choices.
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Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances, [#permalink] New post 05 Sep 2013, 01:38
IMO C

In C, we have an Absolute Phrase- A modifier that is modifying the subject i.e. Sound. In case of B, prevented from having its acoustic energy dissipated by -it's a Verb-ed modifier modifying the nearest noun could be either 'Water' or 'distances'. Ambiguous and moreover, this is not what is intended by the sentence.

Similar to this question:

With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its

(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

Thanks!!
Re: Sound can travel through water for enormous distances,   [#permalink] 05 Sep 2013, 01:38
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