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Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a

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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 28 Jul 2013, 02:02
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they definitely refers to starfish. now if there is a singular/plural consideration then i would say it fits better, what say blueseas?
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 28 Jul 2013, 02:55
WaterFlowsUp wrote:
they definitely refers to starfish. now if there is a singular/plural consideration then i would say it fits better, what say blueseas?


hi,

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

in the non underlined portion,...we have STARFISH...HAVE==>it means STARFISH==>PLURAL...hence we cant denote starfish with IT.

hope it helps
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 28 Jul 2013, 04:33
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yeah, right u r...i overlooked it that time
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 05 Aug 2013, 22:36
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,



I chose B as well.. Her is my stab at it

A - One arm is lost "it" quickly replaces - Who? the arm or the starfish? Out
B - One arm is lost it is - That resolves the problem with A.. Rest seems to be ok.. Keep
C - They lose one arm they quickly replace - Who? They could refer to five to eight arms or the starfish..... sometimes by - Wrong - Out
D - They lose one arm they "are" quickly - Out
E - They lose one arm it is, sometimes with the animal - Close to being correct in my books but ambiguity exists with the placemement of sometimes, it makes it seems like the arms are grown back only at times.

All in all it was a toss up between B and E.. Chose B
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 06 Aug 2013, 03:24
Though many replies already exist, here is my 2 cents.

Starfish, blah blah blah, have a strong Z ability, and if <something happens they fix it>, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two

C,D,E have a similar problem "overcompensating," is followed by "growing an extra one or two". This is a case of misplaced modifier.
Now A & B remains

(A) one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and --> Use of Have in the non-underlined part means we talking about plural star fish.

So B wins!!
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 29 Nov 2013, 10:14
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blueseas wrote:
AMITAGARWAL2 wrote:
it is easy... Straight B..

They is incorrect.. C and D and E are out.
A is missing 'is' after it to maintain parallelism

hi amit
may i know why they is wrong according to you in option CDE


Usage of "they" seems OK in (C) and (E) - but not in (D) because of multiple THEYs.

(D) ", and if they lose one arm they are quickly replaced"

The first they is supposed to = Starfish
But the second they is supposed to = the arm

So ambiguous pronoun references for THEY in (D) makes (D) wrong.

For (C) and (E) - the non-underlined portion says "Starfish.....have.." - so we know Starfish is plural.

So referencing starfish with THEY is OK.

But (C) and (E) have other issues - please see video explanation provided below.

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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 29 Nov 2013, 11:15
Usage of "they" in choices C,D and E is proper.

C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,This choice means the animal replaces its lost arm by overcompensating. Change of meaning. Also "and" is missing between two parallel actions "overcompensating" and "growing". Hence wrong.
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,"and" is missing between two parallel actions "overcompensating" and "growing". Hence wrong.
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,Change of meaning due to wrong placement of "sometimes". "and" is missing between two parallel actions "overcompensating" and "growing". Hence wrong.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a stro [#permalink] New post 01 Dec 2013, 05:37
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daagh wrote:
The tagging may include SV number agreement, and conjunction, which are also important things tested here. Starfish is treated as plural here as can be seen from the plural verb have in the non-underlined part

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and--- [color=#0000FF]it seems as if the plural starfish is pronouned by the first, singular it; in addition in an active voice sentence, the use of by is improper
[/color]
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and ------- seems ok with the SV problem avoided altogether. Here the it should logically refer to the arm. correct choice

C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating, -----use of by is improper in an active voice setting. It should be with the animal rather than by the animal; overcompensating, growing is improper co-ordination. There should be an and in between

D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,’---use of they means that the starfish themselves are replaced; over compensating should be followed by and

E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating, --- in a passive voice we need to use by rather than with ; in addition overcompensating should be followed by and


Hi daagh,
As per your explanation 'with' should not be used in passive voice. Right?

Then still B stands out as the correct option. It seems it's kind of selecting the best out of the lot...!!

Would much appreciate your thoughts.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 02 Dec 2013, 02:30
Also in A, C and E, isn’t “sometimes” modifying “by the animal”. So, it creates the meaning that the arm is replaced by the animal.

In option B, “sometimes” is appropriately modifying “overcompensating”.

Is this reasoning correct?
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 02 Dec 2013, 02:33
Transcendentalist wrote:
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,


Chose B


Also, this seems to be one off case where passive voice (one arm is lost) is preferred over active voice (they loose one arm).

Can someone explain why passive voice is better here.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 01 Feb 2014, 17:42
macjas wrote:
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

(A) one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and PRONOUN AGREEMENT- Starfish have => Starfish is PLURAL but it is SINGULAR
(B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
(C) they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
(D) they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating, PRONOUN REFERENCE - they (PLURAL) implies Starfish are replaced and not the arm
(E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,


1. Eliminate A and D as above
2. Between B,C & E - use MEANING to eliminate C because 2nd part of the sentence means arm is being replaced by overcompensating.
3. Between B and E - use PARALLELISM to eliminate E because they lose (is in active voice) is not parallel to it is replaced (in passive voice)
Left with answer choice (B)

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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 02 Feb 2014, 00:15
ONE THING IS CLEAR....IF STARFISH LOSES AN ARM IT DOES NOTHING, BY INTENTION, TO REPLACE IT ... IT HAPPENS AUTOMATICALLY BY GENETIC REGENERATION......

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lostit quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and...CORRECT....
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
Ethey lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,


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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2014, 19:49
Hi E-GMAT,

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

My analysis and query, The sentence structure IC {Startfish + modifier+ verb (Have)}, and IC if + then clause+ modifier.

First query is in the "2nd IC" i'm not able to identify the Sub & Verb and

Second query is i'm not able to understand why "with" modifier is correct?
i understand that after the second clause is ended with "replaced" then Verb-ing should come instead of "with". Please correct me ?

and Lastly i always feel with seems to be the incorrect choice in GMAT in general.Could you please help me to correct my concept .

Thanks
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 24 Feb 2014, 00:53
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Nitinaka19 wrote:
Hi E-GMAT,

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

My analysis and query, The sentence structure IC {Startfish + modifier+ verb (Have)}, and IC if + then clause+ modifier.

First query is in the "2nd IC" i'm not able to identify the Sub & Verb and

Second query is i'm not able to understand why "with" modifier is correct?
i understand that after the second clause is ended with "replaced" then Verb-ing should come instead of "with". Please correct me ?

and Lastly i always feel with seems to be the incorrect choice in GMAT in general.Could you please help me to correct my concept .

Thanks


Dear Nitin,

You aren't able to identify the subject and the verb because you're taking two clauses to be one clause. Your structure should read "if clause + then clause." The "if" clause is "one arm is lost" and the "then" clause is "it is quickly replaced".

Secondly, prepositional phrases are very versatile modifiers. It is perfectly fine for a prepositional phrase to modify an action. So, this part correctly tells us how the lost arm is replaced.

There is no rule that says that "with" is always in the incorrect choice. This is a complete misconception.

I hope this helps to clarify your doubts.

Regards,
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 04 Apr 2014, 00:49
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egmat wrote:
Nitinaka19 wrote:
Hi E-GMAT,

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

My analysis and query, The sentence structure IC {Startfish + modifier+ verb (Have)}, and IC if + then clause+ modifier.

First query is in the "2nd IC" i'm not able to identify the Sub & Verb and

Second query is i'm not able to understand why "with" modifier is correct?
i understand that after the second clause is ended with "replaced" then Verb-ing should come instead of "with". Please correct me ?

and Lastly i always feel with seems to be the incorrect choice in GMAT in general.Could you please help me to correct my concept .

Thanks


Dear Nitin,

You aren't able to identify the subject and the verb because you're taking two clauses to be one clause. Your structure should read "if clause + then clause." The "if" clause is "one arm is lost" and the "then" clause is "it is quickly replaced".

Secondly, prepositional phrases are very versatile modifiers. It is perfectly fine for a prepositional phrase to modify an action. So, this part correctly tells us how the lost arm is replaced.

There is no rule that says that "with" is always in the incorrect choice. This is a complete misconception.

I hope this helps to clarify your doubts.

Regards,
Meghna


Hi Meghna,
I'm confused between option B & C.

B is in passive voice followed by ', with', where as C is in active voice followed by ',...by'. How this is possible ?

As, for passive voice 'by' should be used and 'with' should be for active voice. Still B is the correct answer...! Please clarify why so ? Is it ONLY because an 'and' is required at the end of the underlined part ?

And it'd be great if you share your detail analysis as well.

Thanks!
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 04 Apr 2014, 10:28
bagdbmba wrote:

Hi Meghna,
I'm confused between option B & C.

B is in passive voice followed by ', with', where as C is in active voice followed by ',...by'. How this is possible ?

As, for passive voice 'by' should be used and 'with' should be for active voice. Still B is the correct answer...! Please clarify why so ? Is it ONLY because an 'and' is required at the end of the underlined part ?

And it'd be great if you share your detail analysis as well.

Thanks!


Hi Bad,

Though I am not Meghna, I am happy to respond on this.

I think you have mistaken what OG's OE has said.
OG says that

IF A then B ( then since A and B are parallel, they should have same voice)

(A).one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and

ARM is lost => IT quickly replaces IT(ARM)

In conditional clause 'ARM' is at subject position and in the 'THEN' clause ARM is at object position. So, one in active other in passive
Hence not parallel.

(B). one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and

A= Arm is lost
B= IT(ARM) is quickly replaced

both in same voice hence parallel.

(C) contains comma hence wrong

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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 01 May 2014, 23:42
I am confused between use of 'with' and 'by'.

Is it that in Active voice, we should use 'with' and in passive voice 'by'. Can we have a good example apart from this question ?
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 02 May 2014, 09:16
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macjas wrote:
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

(A) one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
(B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
(C) they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
(D) they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
(E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

JusTLucK04 wrote:
Can you please give your expert opinion on B vs E..
Thank You

Dear JusTLucK04,
I am happy to respond to your p.m.

I realize this is an official question, but I would call this problem one of GMAC's clunkers. It has a clear answer, but it falls short of the standards that the GMAT normally has on SC. In particular, the "with" + [noun] + [participial phrase] structure, as a substitute for a clause, is often something GMAC has considered wrong in other, better written questions, but here it is simply unavoidable. To umeshpatil, I would say: in the active voice, neither "with" nor "by" is ideal; for a new action, ideally we should have a whole new clause.

First of all, the first part is more elegant in (B):
(B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced = concise and elegant
(E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced = awkward
The former focuses exclusively on one subject, "one arm;" it has rhetorical focus. The latter jumps back and forth between two subjects --- the "starfish" and the "one arm." If (E) were entirely active, "if they lose one arm, they replace it," then there would be a consistent subject and consistent active voice. As it stands, (E) juxtaposes two subjects and also juxtaposes active vs. passive voice, all in a tiny clause. It's very awkward.

One crucial split in this sentence is the placement of the word "sometimes" --- exactly what should this word modify? We are already talking about the event in which the starfish loses an arm. Obviously, if the arm is replace, the animal is always the one who replaces it. The "sometimes" refers to the events in which multiple arms replace a single arm --- that sometimes happens. The placement in (E),
(E) ... sometimes with the animal overcompensating ...
suggests that sometimes the animal's action replaces the arm, and sometimes is something other than the animal replacing the arm. That's nonsensical. By contrast, (B) has:
(B) ... with the animal sometimes overcompensating and ...
Yes. It's the overcompensating that happens only sometimes, but it is always the action of the animal.

Finally, for the split at the end: this is one respect in which (B) is not ideal. I think it is awkward to put those two participles in parallel, "overcompensating and growing ..." Really, those are not two separate actions. Instead, the latter is an explanation of the former: what do we mean that starfish "overcompensates"? We mean that the starfish sometimes grows extra arms. It is an explanation of the same action, not a new action. Therefore, I think putting the two participles in parallel is less than ideal. It would be much better to give them the relationship that (E) has: "overcompensating, [that is to say] growing ..."

So (B) is the best answer, but it is not ideal. In fact, the entire question is not ideal, and it's no surprise that the GMAT got rid of it in its current material.

Let me know if anyone has any further questions.
Mike :-)
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 07 May 2014, 15:48
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umeshpatil wrote:
I am confused between use of 'with' and 'by'.

Is it that in Active voice, we should use 'with' and in passive voice 'by'. Can we have a good example apart from this question ?


Dear Umesh,

In this question, the choice between “with” and “by” isn’t dependent on a particular voice. The meaning of the sentence determines the same. Let’s have a look at the use of “by” and “with” in the context of this sentence.

In this question, the author intends to share the ability of starfish to regenerate their body parts. The author tells us how these starfish promptly replace a particular part of their body, sometimes going overboard in the process. The highlighted portion is the information given to us in the “with” phrase in the correct choice B. So let’s analyze this choice:

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

Now, how do you think the highlighted portion after “with” adds to the meaning of the rest of the sentence before it? The simple answer is that it gives us extra information about the action “it is quickly replaced”, right?

Let’s look at another sentence in which the “with” phrase plays a similar role:

We humans have a strong psychological defense mechanism and if faced with bereavement, we quickly go in to a denial mode, with some of us sometimes instead getting fixated on the mundane details of life.

Now in both the sentences, do you think “by” can convey the same meaning as the one conveyed by “with”?

The answer is no. Using “by” in either of the two sentences would mean that we intend to elaborate on the “how” aspect of the preceding clause. This shift in meaning is not correct.

In the example sentence, we are not trying to communicate the process through which some people go in to a denial mode. We are just trying to refer to a particular extreme circumstance in which the denial mode can be observed. Similarly, in the official question, the author intends to convey that in the process of replacing the arms, the creature sometimes ends up overcompensating and growing an extra arm or two. It is not by or through overcompensating that the animal replaces it. Now, one may argue that the original sentence has “by” in it; however, does “by” convey any logical meaning in the sentence. Let’s check the same:

Starfish have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

Now does it make sense to say that the animal replaces the arm sometimes by/through overcompensating for the same? No it doesn’t! As stated earlier, the overcompensation happens in the process of replacement.

Hope the above discussion helps! :)

Regards,

Neeti.
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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a [#permalink] New post 12 May 2014, 19:54
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bagdbmba wrote:
egmat wrote:
Nitinaka19 wrote:
Hi E-GMAT,

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

My analysis and query, The sentence structure IC {Startfish + modifier+ verb (Have)}, and IC if + then clause+ modifier.

First query is in the "2nd IC" i'm not able to identify the Sub & Verb and

Second query is i'm not able to understand why "with" modifier is correct?
i understand that after the second clause is ended with "replaced" then Verb-ing should come instead of "with". Please correct me ?

and Lastly i always feel with seems to be the incorrect choice in GMAT in general.Could you please help me to correct my concept .

Thanks


Dear Nitin,

You aren't able to identify the subject and the verb because you're taking two clauses to be one clause. Your structure should read "if clause + then clause." The "if" clause is "one arm is lost" and the "then" clause is "it is quickly replaced".

Secondly, prepositional phrases are very versatile modifiers. It is perfectly fine for a prepositional phrase to modify an action. So, this part correctly tells us how the lost arm is replaced.

There is no rule that says that "with" is always in the incorrect choice. This is a complete misconception.

I hope this helps to clarify your doubts.

Regards,
Meghna


Hi Meghna,
I'm confused between option B & C.

B is in passive voice followed by ', with', where as C is in active voice followed by ',...by'. How this is possible ?

As, for passive voice 'by' should be used and 'with' should be for active voice. Still B is the correct answer...! Please clarify why so ? Is it ONLY because an 'and' is required at the end of the underlined part ?

And it'd be great if you share your detail analysis as well.

Thanks!


Dear Bagdmba,

I can understand how the “and” difference between choice B and C may not seem very deterministic. That being said, choice C fails to convey the intended meaning of the author. The issue here is not that of active or passive voice. Please refer to the following post to understand how “by” does not work in the context of the sentence:
[url]
starfish-with-anywhere-from-five-to-eight-arms-have-a-132488-20.html#p1362426[/url]

Also the way choice C is written, it could be taken to nonsensically suggest that multiple starfish (they) collectively loose one arm (it). This issue does not arise in choice B. Please reconsider the question in the light of this discussion and do let me know if you have any other doubts. :)

Regards,
Neeti.
_________________

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Re: Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a   [#permalink] 12 May 2014, 19:54
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