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Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form

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Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 13 Jun 2009, 03:08
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Hi all,

I'm trying to improve my GMAT verbal score so I started studying various materials such as Manhattan verbal book and various topics in this great forum. Of course I'm missing a lot of basic grammar rules that I try to figure out. One of which is:


Subjunctive!

One of the sites has a fill-the-blanks quiz here:
http://www.englishpage.com/minitutorial ... ercise.htm

Some examples:

1- I suggest that Frank read the directions carefully before assembling the bicycle. He doesn't want the wheels to fall off while he is riding down a hill

2- She told me that the government regulates the airline industry. I don't know if that is true.

3- I think it's an interesting fact that she comes from Estonia.


My question is: When do you use/add the "s" to the verb? I cant make sense of it.

Thanks
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Re: Subjunctive mayhem [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2009, 20:48
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The -s is added to the end of the verb because the verb is referring to a noun that is in its singular, 3rd person form (he, she, it). The only exception is when the verb follows an imperative construction (e.g. it is important that, as well as with verbs like: demand, insist, etc), then the verb in question is used in its infinitive form.
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Re: Subjunctive mayhem [#permalink] New post 20 Jun 2009, 13:04
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I think I actually have a list of verbs that are used with subjunctive, so it is easy just to memorize them. I will post when I get back home.
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Re: Subjunctive Verbs and Rules [#permalink] New post 20 Jun 2009, 16:49
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Subjunctive Rules and List of Verbs

The subjunctive in English is the simple form of the verb when used after certain verbs indicating that one person wants another person to do something. The word that must always appear in subjunctive sentences. If it is omitted, most of the verbs are followed by the infinitive.

Example:
We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.


Structure:
subject + verb from table below (any tense) + that + subject + verb in simple form


Use that after these verbs in subjunctive mood:
Code:
advise        decree        move        prefer           request         suggest
ask            demand       order        propose        require          urge
command       insist                   recommend       stipulate

Examples:
The judge insisted that the jury return a verdict immediately.
The university requires that all its students take this course.
The doctor suggested that his patient stop smoking.
Congress has decreed that the gasoline tax be abolished.
We proposed that he take a vacation.
I move that we adjourn until this afternoon.

There is also a list of adjectives after which you should use that and follow them by a simple verb form:

Code:
advised       necessary   recommended   urgent
important    obligatory   required           imperative
mandatory   proposed    suggested


it + be (any tense) + adjective + that + subject + verb in simple tense


Examples:
It is necessary that he find the books.
It was urgent that she leave at once.
It has been proposed that we change the topic.
It is important that you remember this question.
It has been suggested that he forget the election.
It was recommended that we wait for the authorities.
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Re: Subjunctive Verbs and Rules [#permalink] New post 20 Jun 2009, 21:31
Thank you both for your valuable replies.

bb wrote:
If it is omitted, most of the verbs are followed by the infinitive.


So in this case it's not Subjunctive?
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Re: Subjunctive Verbs and Rules [#permalink] New post 20 Jun 2009, 21:39
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Sontawila wrote:
Thank you both for your valuable replies.

bb wrote:
If it is omitted, most of the verbs are followed by the infinitive.


So in this case it's not Subjunctive?


That's right :!:
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 06 Jul 2009, 02:38
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Which sentence is correct in GMAT perspective or gramatically?

We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 09 Jul 2009, 15:35
Expert's post
ankur55 wrote:
Which sentence is correct in GMAT perspective or gramatically?

We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.


Both are.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 13 May 2010, 23:58
Hi,

Which of the following sunjunctive forms is correct:
1. I hope that I will finish this book my Monday

2. I hope that I finish this book my Monday

Please explain.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 14 May 2010, 05:50
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ykaiim wrote:
Hi,

Which of the following sunjunctive forms is correct:
1. I hope that I will finish this book my Monday

2. I hope that I finish this book my Monday

Please explain.


This is not subjunctive (see definition above)
The first version sounds the most correct to me. "I hope that I finish this book by Monday"
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 14 May 2010, 06:15
Thanks bb.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 25 May 2010, 08:35
Hi,

Which of the following sunjunctive forms is correct:
1. I hope that I will finish this book my Monday

2. I hope that I finish this book my Monday

Please explain.


I think both are incorrect since you typically omit using "that" after words like hope, say, suppose, think and expect. I got this from some explanation is OG-12. Although I would definitely like if someone can confirm this.

Thanks.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 25 May 2010, 09:45
Expert's post
hsguest wrote:
Hi,

Which of the following sunjunctive forms is correct:
1. I hope that I will finish this book my Monday

2. I hope that I finish this book my Monday

Please explain.


I think both are incorrect since you typically omit using "that" after words like hope, say, suppose, think and expect. I got this from some explanation is OG-12. Although I would definitely like if someone can confirm this.

Thanks.


The definition of subjunctive is: The subjunctive in English is the simple form of the verb when used after certain verbs indicating that one person wants another person to do something. (above)

HOPE does not fall under that, so it is not subjunctive.

The word "that" with HOPE is optional - some use it and others don't. I don't think one way is more correct than the other except that you do have one less word.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 25 May 2010, 13:00
Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: Subjunctive Verbs and Rules [#permalink] New post 05 Jul 2011, 03:41
bb wrote:
Subjunctive Rules and List of Verbs

The subjunctive in English is the simple form of the verb when used after certain verbs indicating that one person wants another person to do something. The word that must always appear in subjunctive sentences. If it is omitted, most of the verbs are followed by the infinitive.

Example:
We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.


Structure:
subject + verb from table below (any tense) + that + subject + verb in simple form


Use that after these verbs in subjunctive mood:
Code:
advise        decree        move        prefer           request         suggest
ask            demand       order        propose        require          urge
command       insist                   recommend       stipulate


There is also a list of adjectives after which you should use that and follow them by a simple verb form:

Code:
advised       necessary   recommended   urgent
important    obligatory   required           imperative
mandatory   proposed    suggested


it + be (any tense) + adjective + that + subject + verb in simple tense




Does this mean that

with verbs....verb in simple form ?

with adjectives...verb in simple tense ?

Thanks
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Re: Subjunctive Verbs and Rules [#permalink] New post 09 Feb 2013, 18:51
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Subjunctives are of two types :
1. Use of Subjunctives in sentences with the word if, and it takes the following two forms
If x were , y would
Y would if x were


e.g. I wouldn't do that if were you.

2.Use of subjunctive with commands/orders/requests and that
the proper construction is
Subject + order or demand verb+ that + object + bare infinitive + rest of sentence
e.g. The manager requested that the staff stay late to finish the project
It is imperative that he found a job quickly [X]
It is imperative that he find a job quickly.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 19 May 2013, 01:03
Following this rule..we should have THAT in correct option choice below? Pls explain..


Q:Senator Lasker has proposed legislation requiring that employers should retain all older workers indefinitely or show just cause for dismissal.

(A) that employers should retain all older workers
(B) that all older workers be retained by employers
(C) the retaining by employers of all older workers
(D) employers’ retention of all older workers
(E) employers to retain all older workers
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 19 May 2013, 01:21
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rbansal6 wrote:
Following this rule..we should have THAT in correct option choice below? Pls explain..


Q:Senator Lasker has proposed legislation requiring that employers should retain all older workers indefinitely or show just cause for dismissal.

(A) that employers should retain all older workers
(B) that all older workers be retained by employers
(C) the retaining by employers of all older workers
(D) employers’ retention of all older workers
(E) employers to retain all older workers


In this one "requiring" is used as modifier, not as verb.
It refers to "legislation", and the correct option in E.

It modifies legislation, and that's why THAT is wrong.

The -ING form if not preceed by a comma (", "+"ing verb") refers to the preceding noun or noun phrase.
verb-ing-modifiers-part-2-in-our-first-article-on-verb-ing-135567.html
This noun could or could not be the subject.

The rule above refers to the cases in which "require" (for example) is used as verb.
The new prodedure requires that ...

But in this case "require" is a modifier, not a verb and the rule does not hold true.

Hope it's clear
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 30 Jul 2013, 10:32
Examples:
It is necessary that he find the books.
It was urgent that she leave at once.
It has been proposed that we change the topic.
It is important that you remember this question.
It has been suggested that he forget the election.
It was recommended that we wait for the authorities.

Hello, can someone pls explain how are the underlined words playing role of adjectives...I know this is a silly question, but I am stuck.
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Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form [#permalink] New post 02 Aug 2013, 20:16
Quote:
Q:Senator Lasker has proposed legislation requiring that employers should retain all older workers indefinitely or show just cause for dismissal.

(A) that employers should retain all older workers
(B) that all older workers be retained by employers
(C) the retaining by employers of all older workers
(D) employers’ retention of all older workers
(E) employers to retain all older workers


In this one "requiring" is used as modifier, not as verb.
It refers to "legislation", and the correct option in E.

It modifies legislation, and that's why THAT is wrong. I have a doubt on this statement

The -ING form if not preceed by a comma (", "+"ing verb") refers to the preceding noun or noun phrase.
verb-ing-modifiers-part-2-in-our-first-article-on-verb-ing-135567.html
This noun could or could not be the subject.

The rule above refers to the cases in which "require" (for example) is used as verb.
The new prodedure requires that ...

But in this case "require" is a modifier, not a verb and the rule does not hold true.

Hope it's clear


Need your help in understanding a little more about the usage of "that" here.

You mentioned that
Quote:
It modifies legislation, and that's why THAT is wrong.


Does this mean if we use "requiring that", then "requiring" is not modifying "legislation". If so, could you elaborate on this please?
Re: Subjunctive and use of that with simple verb form   [#permalink] 02 Aug 2013, 20:16
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