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The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club

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Status: Nothing comes easy: neither do I want.
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2012, 06:34
Dbalks wrote:
Unbounded, I am sorry that the process has been so rough on you. You seem like you have the passion to make a top mba. However, the schools you applied to are all out of this world (WOW) schools. Remember the acceptance rate is <20% at most places, so try not to feel too discouraged. When I picked my schools, I picked a range between Wharton and Yale. I figured I fall somewhere in between, but would quit my job to go to any of the 4 schools I chose. I ended up only getting accepted at Cornell thus far. I put together a kick ass app for Wharton and all the schools I applied.

Rejection feels like crap, but its part of this game. The way I see it is you have 2 choices. 1) Keep your head up (dont lose your spark as you call it) and come back stronger and harder next year. Do everything you can to get one extra promotion, one extra curricular, one extra school visit, maybe even one more set of rejections. OR 2) You lower your range out of the WOW schools. You def will get into a 15-25 program, as the poster above me notes your chances are stronger if you work the schools where your stats are upper 80% range.

Don't get me wrong, it appears you do have the stats to get into a top 10 MBA. Sometimes its just more of a crapshoot than anything else. Best of luck and never give up. Ive seen posters on here (OhDenny) who put 3 application seasons in to get accepted. And if you asked that poster who is at Yale now, I bet you he will tell you it was worth every rejection.


Cornell is a very good school and I can assure you in coming few years it would be in the IVY leave. I m not equating it with H/S/W but yes other than these three cornell would make the rankings upside down.

unbounded wrote:
I dnt know whether this is a rant, or something that I truthfully want to say and share will fellow "dingers"?. I have been a silent observant on gmatclub for over 2 years now. I have taken advice/advantage of a lot of resources here, but rarely contributed, for which I apologize. But this is something I wanted to do....after I got dinged by Booth yesterday, Kellogg on Monday, and by Tuck last Friday. I have spent almost the last 2 years on things related to an MBA. Started my prep seriously in Dec 2010, with the first attempt a meager 690 followed by a 2nd attempt with a 700. While the scores weren't bad, what makes them worse is that I am an Indian.
Still, I prepared for my applications with a whole lot of zest. I spent over 6 months in analyzing my strengths and weaknesses, thought of strong points, things to mention in the essays. In July, I suffered an ACL tear and having undergone surgery in August, it was a mountain of an effort to complete my application. I just applied to 4 schools and made the sure that I gave it my very best. While my acads and GMAT score are not exceptional, my extra curriculars do make me stand out quite well, both during under-grad and the stuff I am doing now. So I was really shocked why no school would want to take me in-- I do feel I stand out well and have a lot of factors working in my favor, and I genuinely believe I have a passionate individual who has much to contribute in class.

As I brush aside the dirt and wipe the blood, I know I feel the despair, the hopelessness of having to do it all over again. I know you feel burdened by it too. But I feel that we all have this little spark inside of us. This spark that makes us uncomfortable to just sit and go through the motions at our current jobs, this spark that wants us to do better than the millions who are satisfied with their current lives.

Don't loose that spark. I know I wont. I know I do not have the option and dnt want to give up. I know that the schools that didnt take us made a big mistake. I know I am better than this... And so are you.


Bro, for Indians competition is very high and adcoms really have to select exceptional from the best list. Do not lose hope and keep fighting & leave everything on Almighty. Things would start flowing soon in your favor. Keep it Up!!
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2012, 06:42
unbounded wrote:
I dnt know whether this is a rant, or something that I truthfully want to say and share will fellow "dingers"?. I have been a silent observant on gmatclub for over 2 years now. I have taken advice/advantage of a lot of resources here, but rarely contributed, for which I apologize. But this is something I wanted to do....after I got dinged by Booth yesterday, Kellogg on Monday, and by Tuck last Friday. I have spent almost the last 2 years on things related to an MBA. Started my prep seriously in Dec 2010, with the first attempt a meager 690 followed by a 2nd attempt with a 700. While the scores weren't bad, what makes them worse is that I am an Indian.
Still, I prepared for my applications with a whole lot of zest. I spent over 6 months in analyzing my strengths and weaknesses, thought of strong points, things to mention in the essays. In July, I suffered an ACL tear and having undergone surgery in August, it was a mountain of an effort to complete my application. I just applied to 4 schools and made the sure that I gave it my very best. While my acads and GMAT score are not exceptional, my extra curriculars do make me stand out quite well, both during under-grad and the stuff I am doing now. So I was really shocked why no school would want to take me in-- I do feel I stand out well and have a lot of factors working in my favor, and I genuinely believe I have a passionate individual who has much to contribute in class.

As I brush aside the dirt and wipe the blood, I know I feel the despair, the hopelessness of having to do it all over again. I know you feel burdened by it too. But I feel that we all have this little spark inside of us. This spark that makes us uncomfortable to just sit and go through the motions at our current jobs, this spark that wants us to do better than the millions who are satisfied with their current lives.

Don't loose that spark. I know I wont. I know I do not have the option and dnt want to give up. I know that the schools that didnt take us made a big mistake. I know I am better than this... And so are you.



I'm sorry about the dings. I definitely empathize. Keep your head up and grind away, and things will work out.

It really is disgusting how much higher the bar is for Asian men, but that is a topic for a different thread altogether.
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 24 Dec 2012, 00:13
kidchaos wrote:
Hey guys,

I have been on GmatClub for over 2 years and i have never seen the zero admit thread. Honestly I have applied twice before admittedly with a much weaker application and I'm very worried this time as well. I'm hoping it goes my way this time but from personal experience (twice before!) Keep your chin up. If you are truly determined something will work out.

Maybe it's not exactly how you thought it would be but that just means that there is something you aren't seeing yet.

Just a small example is that if I had got into MBA a year or 2 years ago I never would have had the opportunity to start my e-commerce venture designing and selling Laptop Skins. Today the business has begun rolling, and I have entrepreneurial experience and through it I am able to donate some proceeds to an NGO all while doing what I normally do to decompress everyday, Design!

So my point is it will work out at some point so stay positive and alert for that opportunity.


Whatever happens happens for a reason and that too by almighty's will. :lol:
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 24 Dec 2012, 13:02
As was just mentioned above, definitely keep your head up and don't get too discouraged. I went from the zero admit club last year to an ED acceptance at Columbia and an invitation to interview at Booth(withdrew my application before interview because of the CBS admit). A couple of things to think about. I would recommend a Ding Analysis from a reputable consultant. They are relatively cheap, mine was only $125 but was incredibly helpful. Looking back my application wasn't bad per se but it wasn't strong either. This is a tough competition and if you don't have anybody at your company from a top MBA program make sure you are making connections in schools now who can help review your essays. Retaking the GMAT to go from a bottom score to a top score probably made a big difference as well. If you're at the 730+ level then you are probably better served working on other areas of your application but if you're at the 700 or less it would be very worthwhile to boost that up if you think you can.

In the end, don't give up hope. 4 dings last year without interview invites. I only interviewed at Kellogg because they do 100% interviews but the other 3 dinged me without interview. It was painful, especially getting waitlisted at Kellogg because I have some very strong family ties with the school and thought I killed it on the interview. Don't lose focus and keep doing great stuff.
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 26 Dec 2012, 14:05
mappleby wrote:
As was just mentioned above, definitely keep your head up and don't get too discouraged. I went from the zero admit club last year to an ED acceptance at Columbia and an invitation to interview at Booth(withdrew my application before interview because of the CBS admit). A couple of things to think about. I would recommend a Ding Analysis from a reputable consultant. They are relatively cheap, mine was only $125 but was incredibly helpful. Looking back my application wasn't bad per se but it wasn't strong either. This is a tough competition and if you don't have anybody at your company from a top MBA program make sure you are making connections in schools now who can help review your essays. Retaking the GMAT to go from a bottom score to a top score probably made a big difference as well. If you're at the 730+ level then you are probably better served working on other areas of your application but if you're at the 700 or less it would be very worthwhile to boost that up if you think you can.

In the end, don't give up hope. 4 dings last year without interview invites. I only interviewed at Kellogg because they do 100% interviews but the other 3 dinged me without interview. It was painful, especially getting waitlisted at Kellogg because I have some very strong family ties with the school and thought I killed it on the interview. Don't lose focus and keep doing great stuff.


How is the reapplication process at Columbia? Columbia is the only school to have invited me to interview, so that seems to be the most favorable place to re-apply.
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 26 Dec 2012, 16:59
Just a few basic words of encouragement. If attending top MBA program is something that you want to do, then there should be nothing that stops you from attaining this goal. There is no shame in re-applying to schools that rejected you or applying for a second or even third time. Admissions people have great respect for people with this much drive and focus and this passion really does come through. So, do not give up hope.

I too would encourage you to first of all reflect upon your application process and be honest with yourself what could have gone wrong. Perhaps you trusted a person to write a recommendation who you should not have or did not spend as much time on your essays or rushed the whole process just to get your applications in for R1. Also, you should contact an admissions consulting firm and contract with a person who was actually on an admissions committee to see how your application would have been received. This is a relatively small investment in this entire process but one that usually turns out to be incredibly valuable. Lastly, remember to learn from your mistakes and do not submit the same application you did this year or proceed under the same direction -- if it did not work the first time around, then it most probably will not work the second time around.

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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 28 Dec 2012, 18:19
Hey, original poster, you're pretty young and if I were you I'd take a few years off from this process to focus on my career. Apply in 2015 and you'll have tons more experience and hopefully your career interests and goals will be much refined. This heart ache embeds itself into you if you let it so it is probably best to throw it all behind you and enjoy the good things that are going on in your life (maybe get a new job?).

Sorry you're in this spot. It sucks.
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 28 Dec 2012, 23:58
machichi wrote:
Hey, original poster, you're pretty young and if I were you I'd take a few years off from this process to focus on my career. Apply in 2015 and you'll have tons more experience and hopefully your career interests and goals will be much refined. This heart ache embeds itself into you if you let it so it is probably best to throw it all behind you and enjoy the good things that are going on in your life (maybe get a new job?).

Sorry you're in this spot. It sucks.


Agreed. Looks like you are tad too young and based on your post, I see you are looking at it as an exit out of a miserable job. My advice is to get a new job(don't worry about explaining a new job on your essays, as long as you have a good justification for it, you can relate it to your LT career goals, the thought clarity is what the adcom is looking at).

Also, I would say take a break - continually applying for B-schools and getting dinged has 2 disadvantages - 1) It makes you miserable and 2) It makes it that much harder when you re-apply to the school, and you have applied to all the top schools. It is harder to justify how you have progressed in your career, as a re-applicant.
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 30 Dec 2012, 23:49
Expert's post
unbounded wrote:
I dnt know whether this is a rant, or something that I truthfully want to say and share will fellow "dingers"?. I have been a silent observant on gmatclub for over 2 years now. I have taken advice/advantage of a lot of resources here, but rarely contributed, for which I apologize. But this is something I wanted to do....after I got dinged by Booth yesterday, Kellogg on Monday, and by Tuck last Friday. I have spent almost the last 2 years on things related to an MBA. Started my prep seriously in Dec 2010, with the first attempt a meager 690 followed by a 2nd attempt with a 700. While the scores weren't bad, what makes them worse is that I am an Indian.
Still, I prepared for my applications with a whole lot of zest. I spent over 6 months in analyzing my strengths and weaknesses, thought of strong points, things to mention in the essays. In July, I suffered an ACL tear and having undergone surgery in August, it was a mountain of an effort to complete my application. I just applied to 4 schools and made the sure that I gave it my very best. While my acads and GMAT score are not exceptional, my extra curriculars do make me stand out quite well, both during under-grad and the stuff I am doing now. So I was really shocked why no school would want to take me in-- I do feel I stand out well and have a lot of factors working in my favor, and I genuinely believe I have a passionate individual who has much to contribute in class.

As I brush aside the dirt and wipe the blood, I know I feel the despair, the hopelessness of having to do it all over again. I know you feel burdened by it too. But I feel that we all have this little spark inside of us. This spark that makes us uncomfortable to just sit and go through the motions at our current jobs, this spark that wants us to do better than the millions who are satisfied with their current lives.

Don't loose that spark. I know I wont. I know I do not have the option and dnt want to give up. I know that the schools that didnt take us made a big mistake. I know I am better than this... And so are you.


Unbounded,

I feel for you and empathize with your frustration. Don't give up, but I have a few thoughts for you as an MBA reapplicant (I prefer that title to the a "Zero Admit.").
1) While your passion and enthusiasm are vital and admirable, they are not sufficient to ensure a positive outcome. For the schools you mentioned your GMAT score puts you 20-30 points under the overall average GMAT and probably more below the average for Indians, which is one of the most competitive groups. The GMAT isn't everything, but it IS important.
2) Rejections are usually caused by A) a lack of competitiveness, B) a poor presentation of your qualifications, C) being a "victim of the numbers at highly competitive programs, especially if you are from an over-represented group, or D) a combination of the above. To reapply successfully, you need to objectively assess which of these three elements most contributed to your rejection. To the extent the first two are most significant, you have to either improve your qualifications or broaden your range of schools. If presentation is an issue, the easiest to fix, you need to improve your presentation in terms of the essays, recommendation, resume, and letters of recommendation. The numbers, i.e. your competition, are something you have little control over, but they are a reality you have to recognize.
3) Realize that in order to have a successful application, you need to apply to schools that support your post-MBA goals, provide the education you want to study, AND that are likely to accept you. If you only apply to the former, you will have a similar outcome to your round 1 results.
4) Many MBA applicants want to change careers. That's fine. But don't let dislike of your job be overriding. Be guided by the career or vision you have of your future.
5) Don't be blinded by brand. Yes, some careers and dreams require certain schools. Again, if you can get into them, great. But if you can't you still need to be realistic. There are just under 1000 graduate business schools in the U.S. If you attend one in the top 25, you are attending a school in the top 2.5% Choose a school that supports your realistic goals. If you want to apply to a dream school or two, go for it, but also apply to a few where you chances of acceptance are good.
6) Finally, someone mentioned a ding analysis. You've spent hundreds of hours and probably thousands of dollars on test prep and applications. If you don't have the objectivity and experience to assess what went wrong this time and how to change the results, it may just pay to invest in an application review.

I hope these suggestions help. We have a lot of resources for reapplicants at:

* http://www.accepted.com/mba/decisions.aspx#Rejected
* http://www.accepted.com/mba/reapplication.aspx

Best,
Linda Abraham
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 03 Jan 2013, 14:08
I see my name in the where are they now up top. Shortly after getting swept last year I took a new job and moved cities. Might reapply in the next cycle, or do the EMBA. All things work out in the end, so don't fret folks.
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 09 Jan 2013, 11:35
Planet, you are right there is definitely a bias on this website but that is somewhat to be expected. The people who are motivated enough to spend time on a website like GMATClub are going to be the same type of people who are motivated to constantly do their best and shoot for the top. Certainly there are exceptions but most on this forum are expecting GMAT scores well above 700 and are looking for every bit of info that can help them get into the elite schools.

You mentioned age but if you do the research you will find the average age here is far more representative of schools than yours. The average work experience at most full time programs is 5 years so at 15 you will actually be the outlier. Not that that is bad, just making sure you are aware. Everybody has their own priorities but I think most would argue that you won't hurt your future by going to the best school you can attend. If you know exactly where you want to live and what you want to do then the regionality and specific focus of lower ranked schools could be more important. But if you are switching careers our a little unsure then going to a top program will open more doors with your network.

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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 17:44
Quote:
But if the goal is to attend Bschool his fall, it's smart to hedge your bets and cast a net among the top 20 - especially when you consider that the same companies recruit at all these schools.


Some interesting discussion wrt the job offers at M7 & top 10 vs top 11-25 schools
how-true-is-this-145644.html
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 04:41
bluemints wrote:
Quote:
But if the goal is to attend Bschool his fall, it's smart to hedge your bets and cast a net among the top 20 - especially when you consider that the same companies recruit at all these schools.


Some interesting discussion wrt the job offers at M7 & top 10 vs top 11-25 schools
how-true-is-this-145644.html


Difference is that thread discusses the differences between the tiers of schools (i.e. Booth vs. Darden). I'm comparing a top 15 or top 20 vs. not going to B-school at all (for people who only applied to top 8 schools and got dinged at them all).
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2013, 22:53
CobraKai wrote:
Dbalks wrote:
Sometimes its just more of a crapshoot than anything else.


I second this. There are limited seats at the top schools and you are competing against some of the smartest/ambitious people in the world.

I would also cast a wider net when selecting schools. I know it's a lot of work, but the reason I say this is because different Adcoms look for different things and it's just too tough to predict who will take whom. There are people that get accepted by HBS but dinged at Kellogg. Accepted by Tuck and dinged at Johnson. Find schools that will help you meet your career goals and do not apply to a school you would not ultimately happy be attending. Best of luck.

Probably the starngest would be when I saw someone in gmatclub accepted at Chicago Booth, dinged without interview at Texas A&M Mays...
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2013, 12:51
MacFauz wrote:
Probably the starngest would be when I saw someone in gmatclub accepted at Chicago Booth, dinged without interview at Texas A&M Mays...


Yeah, that's the most extreme case. But when you think about it, the Adcoms have been doing this awhile, and Mays may have just concluded that the applicant's profile and stats were much, much higher than their usual applicant pool and recognized that even offering a full-ride wouldn't be enough to sway the applicant, so dinging and moving on saved everybody time. Schools in the top 15 probably don't do this because there's always the possibility someone would choose say, Darden over Booth because of fit, but no one in their right mind will ever choose Mays over Booth because of a better fit. That's just nuts.
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2013, 05:44
CobraKai wrote:
MacFauz wrote:
Probably the starngest would be when I saw someone in gmatclub accepted at Chicago Booth, dinged without interview at Texas A&M Mays...


Yeah, that's the most extreme case. But when you think about it, the Adcoms have been doing this awhile, and Mays may have just concluded that the applicant's profile and stats were much, much higher than their usual applicant pool and recognized that even offering a full-ride wouldn't be enough to sway the applicant, so dinging and moving on saved everybody time. Schools in the top 15 probably don't do this because there's always the possibility someone would choose say, Darden over Booth because of fit, but no one in their right mind will ever choose Mays over Booth because of a better fit. That's just nuts.

Right. Plus, realistically, some schools practice yield protection. In the example above, what does Mays have to gain by offering up a spot to someone who will matriculate elsewhere, therefore hurting their yield (and their rankings)?
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 07 Mar 2013, 15:12
kmcduw wrote:

Looks like I'll be in this club for the second year in a row unless Sloan works out.

Age/Gender: 25/M
GMAT Score/GPA : 760/3.71
Work Experience: Public Accounting (audit) / 3yrs
Location: Seattle, WA
Schools applied to: Harvard, Tuck, Stern, Haas (2014), Tuck, Stanford, Wharton, Columbia, Sloan (2015)
Any consulting services used: Yes, Stacy Blackman
#Interviews: 2 (both 2015, 1 by invitation, 1 self-initiated)
#WL: 0

Optional:
Which ding hurt the most and why? Tuck. I was encouraged to reapply via a feedback offer, accomplished most of the tasks, spent $$ flying across the country to visit, and I was a legacy applicant.
Why the lack of success? Not sure. Poor interview (redeye from Seattle doesn't help) maybe? Lack of international experience? Addressed the feedback call items pretty well.
What next? Continue being a slave in an industry I don't like, I guess.


I can definitely relate with your desire to get out of audit. I spent three busy seasons as a Big Four auditor and realized that I most definitely did not want to do anything related to accounting for the rest of my career. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you're aware, the majority of the exit opportunities for someone in public accounting revolve around accounting, financial reporting, internal audit, etc. Fortunately, I was able to transfer over to one of our Advisory groups and will have been there for about 1.5 years by the time I head off to b-school. I would highly recommend looking into a transfer if that is available to you. The work is definitely more interesting (for me), the hours are better, and you can use it to show the AdCom that you are driven to continuously challenge yourself. Just my two cents.
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Posts: 572
Location: United States
Schools: Ross '16 (M)
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 08 Mar 2013, 13:18
As of now, i'm in the club. I'm on four waitlists--Yale, Sloan, Tuck & Kellogg. Hopefully, luck will turn in my favor.
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Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 2
Concentration: Finance, Strategy
GMAT 1: 740 Q45 V46
GPA: 3.53
WE: Consulting (Consulting)
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 21 Mar 2013, 05:44
Age/Gender: 27 - Male
GMAT Score/GPA : 740 (46V, 45Q, 6AW, 4IR) - 3.53
Work Experience: [industry/years] Systems Integration Consulting at Accenture - 5 years
Location: Minneapolis
Schools applied to: Harvard, Sloan, Booth, Kellogg
Any consulting services used: [Yes/NO, Who?] Yes, Amerasia
#Interviews: Kellogg
#WL: 1 - Sloan

Optional:
Which ding hurt the most and why? Booth - I didn't get an interview.
Why the lack of success? Unsure
What next? Unsure
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Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club [#permalink] New post 21 Mar 2013, 07:45
In the club as of now. Applied to three schools- got dinged without interview at two places, waitlisted with interview at one school. Somewhat optimistic I can get off the WL as I'm going to convince them as best as I can that I'm going if I get in (which I'm obviously hoping for).
But even if I don't, I still feel I've learned a lot from the experience applying this time around, and I'll surely be better when I decide to make another run at it. I'm an early career applicant (~2 years WE) so I feel with a few more years I should be more competitive.
Re: The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club   [#permalink] 21 Mar 2013, 07:45
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