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The Forbes Ranking is Out...

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The Forbes Ranking is Out... [#permalink] New post 18 Aug 2007, 22:38
http://www.forbes.com/home/careers/2007 ... _land.html

1. Dartmouth/Tuck
2. Stanford
3. Harvard
4. UVA/Darden
5. UPenn/Wharton
6. Columbia
7. Chicago
8. Yale
9. Northwestern/Kellogg
10. Cornell/Johnson
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 00:57
Did they assign ranks by random number generation?
Those guys were inhaling some strong stuff when they put Darden above
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 01:30
tuck, darden, and yale in the top 10??? some over Stanford and Harvard? What *are* they smoking? I mean, having Chicago and Northwestern 1 and 2 is ok, but Tuck?

And of course, Berkeley and UCLA got shafted somewhere...
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 02:12
People who are belittling these rankings are too brainwashed by prestige rankings. The Forbes rankings are specifically for ROI - how long will it take for a student to get back what he/she invests. Given that Tuck students enter with a lower salary, and emerge with a greater increase, it is entirely possible to outrank HBS/Stanford. Given that Wharton is so finance-specific, and most people going in are form IB or MC, they come in with higher salaries so there is less marginal return.

Stop obsessing over rankings; they’ve got you brainwashed and thinking one-dimensionally.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 04:05
try explaining this ranking to any b school admissiosns officer and he will fall off his chair laughing.

I am not going to aruge with you but if you think going to Bschool and getting a higher paying job qualifies as a ROI then you are seeing things in a different way.

I am not biased by rankings - but seriously, explain to me how Darden is a better school than Wharton.

You have to bring something very convincing to the table.. and as kryzak said no UCLA and Haas.

Tuck higher than Harvard - I am sure one HBS alumni already choked reading the news while sipping his coffee.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 07:00
aviroop wrote:
try explaining this ranking to any b school admissiosns officer and he will fall off his chair laughing.

I am not going to aruge with you but if you think going to Bschool and getting a higher paying job qualifies as a ROI then you are seeing things in a different way.


I'm pretty sure bschool adcom realize how retarded rankings are. Only prestige-whores and and unknowledgable Indians seem to obsess over rankings (evidenced by the countless Indians on various forums who want to apply to "H/S/W" while knowing nothing about "H/S/W").

If you don't think getting a higher paying job is a return on your investment of the forgone earnings while in school in addition to tuition costs, then I don't know what you're smoking.

Read Forbes' ranking methodology before claiming that Wharton is all-encompasingly superior to Darden. :roll:
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 08:40
Tuck always does well in the rankings...especially when return on investment plays a big part. The size of the program is what really holds it out of being considered one of the very top programs in all the other rankings but being small the alumni are very supportive which helps if you end up working at a company that has Tuck alums high up.

Who cares what the rankings say. This thread seems like it was copied and pasted from the businessweek forum. I am just waiting for rankingsgod to post
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 08:41
Tuck almost always does great in rankings. I believe they have held the top spot in most WSJ rankings (which really look much shocking than these). Tuck is an awesome school and their average salaries are on par with HSW . As I see it, the only drawback for Tuck is its location. Granted, it's in the middle of nowhere and get super cold, but for those that have decided to attend, it's tough to beat. It's not for everyone, but for the criteria of this ranking, Tuck is obviously strong.

ROI is definitely not the most important criteria for business school rankings, but it does have value. Harvard and Stanford grads to have the highest salaries, but they really should because they skim the cream of the crop during admissions. ROI can tell you what the other schools do to improve the standing of their students.

As far as Darden, all my books/magazines are in boxes right now, but I do know that Darden grads have higher salaries than peer schools such as Duke, Cornell & UCLA; highest among the elites if I recall. So, when you talk about ROI, Darden usually does very well. Regarding UCLA & Berkeley, if I recall, their employment numbers were down compared with other elites. That's going to hurt in an ROI ranking.

I guess the summary might be that Harvard and Stanford get the best students to begin with, and naturally these people will later command the highest salaries, almost irrespective of their MBA educations. On the other hand, the mere mortals admitted to lower ranked schools stand to benefit more from what their schools can deliver. That's ROI.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 09:17
MIT is 17th, below Iowa :shock:
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 10:04
mNeo wrote:
MIT is 17th, below Iowa :shock:


Yippee!!! I have a sure shot at Iowa. So, MIT must be a piece of cake.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 10:35
good point pelihu. I realized their methods after reading the full article. Like you said, while ROI is an important factor, automatically assuming that it's the most important factor for everyone applying is definitely way off. I care about how much I'll earn after graduation, but in the end, the most important reason for applying to b-school and giving up 2 years of salary (for me) is because I want the flexibility and ability to move into different fields and do work that I'm passionate about, instead of just earning a good salary at a place I'm getting bored with every day.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 13:38
beny wrote:
aviroop wrote:
try explaining this ranking to any b school admissiosns officer and he will fall off his chair laughing.

I am not going to aruge with you but if you think going to Bschool and getting a higher paying job qualifies as a ROI then you are seeing things in a different way.


I'm pretty sure bschool adcom realize how retarded rankings are. Only prestige-whores and and unknowledgable Indians seem to obsess over rankings (evidenced by the countless Indians on various forums who want to apply to "H/S/W" while knowing nothing about "H/S/W").

If you don't think getting a higher paying job is a return on your investment of the forgone earnings while in school in addition to tuition costs, then I don't know what you're smoking.

Read Forbes' ranking methodology before claiming that Wharton is all-encompasingly superior to Darden. :roll:


Reading your post - it seems you have a deep disgust for Indians. Claiming Indians as unknowledgable seems to show your poor character. Most Indians know about H/S/W and apply there because they have very high academic standards.

I do not know you, I am not here to pick a bone with you but words like prestige-whores and ignorant Indians is not going to get you a whole lot of love and support on this forum.

Everybody wants to apply to the best schools. It is the dream of all forum members here to go to the best school and the best jobs. Calling them whores is not the right way to start posting.

If you want help, re-think the way you want to type your posts. We are all here to help and not belittle one another.

As far as rankings go, I do not give a rat's ass as to what Forbes, Businessweek, WSJ or US News says. These are all publications who will be swayed based on advertising and profit margins. True rankings are made by judgement of people.

And you go to business school to get educated so you get a better job. Giving up 2 years of work, losing promotion or even switching jobs (if you dont make to bs svhool) and posting 150,000 in debt is not exactly a ROI.

And the stuff I smoke leads to great thoughts.. You might give it a try so that you start judging schools not on Forbes rank but on value.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 14:21
beny wrote:
aviroop wrote:
try explaining this ranking to any b school admissiosns officer and he will fall off his chair laughing.

I am not going to aruge with you but if you think going to Bschool and getting a higher paying job qualifies as a ROI then you are seeing things in a different way.


I'm pretty sure bschool adcom realize how retarded rankings are. Only prestige-whores and and unknowledgable Indians seem to obsess over rankings (evidenced by the countless Indians on various forums who want to apply to "H/S/W" while knowing nothing about "H/S/W").


Please keep your comments relevant to the discussion. Be positive and add to the discussion.

Be nice and helpful. If you cannot do this, you are not welcome here.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 18:16
You say that you're not biased based on rankings? That's a joke. You claim that Darden is not better than Wharton... based on what? Obviously based on your ingrained impression of prestige rankings. How much do you know about each school? Please. :roll:

You see a ranking that's not based on PRESTIGE and you immedietly get your panties in a bunch without even knowing the methodology behind the rankings.

Most Indians know about H/S/W? That's why there are so many totally unqualified Indians applying to these schools and knowing nothing about what it takes to get in. Yes, there may be Indians who are knowledgable (a few on this forum come to mind), this does not compensate for the countless who apply knowing absolutely nothing about the schools.

Example: http://www.beatthegmat.com/viewtopic.php?t=3603

And that example is not an exception; there are countless similar posts throughout GMAT and Bschool forums. Just go to BW forum and see for yourself. :roll:

And I'm not judging schools based on rankings. Never once did I endorse or refute these rankings. I refuted the people who immedietly belittled the rankings (You) because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

I respect people like pelihu because he chose Darden over Columbia, despite the fact that Columbia is higher ranked, prestige-wise. He is obviously a very intelligent member who goes beyond the surface of the rankings and actually knows about the school. Not everyone wants to get into the highest-ranked program he/she can get into. Only people obsessed with prestige do.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 18:23
We were recently talking about how we always have healthy and on-topic discussions here (As opposed to BW). So, to ensure that we can continue having that claim, let's stop this argument right here (Or we will end up locking this thread).

So, where were we? Yeah .. the ROI. It's so silly basing a ranking solely on ROI. So to go higher on Forbes ranks, the schools should look for low-earning candidates?
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 18:27
beny wrote:
I respect people like pelihu because he chose Darden over Columbia, despite the fact that Columbia is higher ranked, prestige-wise.


I thought Pelihu went to Darden because he got a free ride via the batten scholarship. Pelihu, would you have chosen Darden over Columbia in the absence of the scholarship? If yes, why?
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 18:40
Beny plenty of white boy investment bankers aim for H/W/S for no other reason than prestige. Even if you know what it takes and are qualified for HBS you still have ato work hard at getting in unless you are some amazing candidate. I know plenty of people who would be qualified for HBS both on paper and in the skills that Harvard looks for but still wouldn't get in without some luck. I think the chances of some Indian applying with no shot is not much different than any other demographic. (note not an Indian)

Please leave the attitude at the door. If you can't add anything to a thread just don't post on it. Posting links to threads from this site by people who you believe have no shot at HBS in your blog is already shows poor taste and lack of good judgement...being rude on here is another thing since this can be controlled by people who aren't you.

Remember schools also care about character.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 18:55
beny, you are out of line. Like Praetorian and riverripper said, you are welcome to express your opinions, but not at the expense of insulting other groups of people. Unlike what you believe, aviroop is actually *quite* knowledgeable about what he's talking about, and we do understand the ROI methods that Forbes uses (after reading their website). It was the initial "shock" of the rankings that resulted in some of the earlier comments here.

Again, your posts here show an immaturity that is not fit for these forums. Please refrain from posting if you can't "play nice". We are not the BW forums for a reason.

Please read this:
http://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=42290

Thank you

Last edited by kryzak on 19 Aug 2007, 18:58, edited 1 time in total.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 18:56
beny wrote:
You say that you're not biased based on rankings? That's a joke. You claim that Darden is not better than Wharton... based on what? Obviously based on your ingrained impression of prestige rankings. How much do you know about each school? Please. :roll:

You see a ranking that's not based on PRESTIGE and you immedietly get your panties in a bunch without even knowing the methodology behind the rankings.

Most Indians know about H/S/W? That's why there are so many totally unqualified Indians applying to these schools and knowing nothing about what it takes to get in. Yes, there may be Indians who are knowledgable (a few on this forum come to mind), this does not compensate for the countless who apply knowing absolutely nothing about the schools.

Example: http://www.beatthegmat.com/viewtopic.php?t=3603

And that example is not an exception; there are countless similar posts throughout GMAT and Bschool forums. Just go to BW forum and see for yourself. :roll:

And I'm not judging schools based on rankings. Never once did I endorse or refute these rankings. I refuted the people who immedietly belittled the rankings (You) because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

I respect people like pelihu because he chose Darden over Columbia, despite the fact that Columbia is higher ranked, prestige-wise. He is obviously a very intelligent member who goes beyond the surface of the rankings and actually knows about the school. Not everyone wants to get into the highest-ranked program he/she can get into. Only people obsessed with prestige do.


Dude before you get high and mighty, I would recommend that everyone has a right of free speech here. By belittling us,you are just showing your poor character.

Do you think we waste our time here coz we are a couple of "unintellegent" floaters who have nothing to do and pick schools just coz they sound good?
How much do you know about these schools - have you visited them? talked to the adcom officers, spent hundreds on flight tickets so that you can go and see the schools for yourself??

If not, then please keep your bigoted opinions to yourself. People like kryzak, ncprasad and other members of this forum are quite intelligent and have spent months researching schools. Before you shoot your mouth off disrespecting forum members and me, calling Indians unqualified and creating an air of ill-will, go get educated and then come back and contribute to this forum.

If you want to refute something, do it in a healthy way. Stop calling people names. It just shows you are a 10 yr old kid who can think of nothing than flicking boogers around as retribution.

and dude why the hate towards Indians? You already sound like an obnoxious racist. Any more comments about Indians and I am sure quite a few members on this forum will not hesitate to ban you.

Good luck with your application process with such a healthy attitude.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2007, 19:00
aviroop, while I understand your frustration with beny's posts, let's take the high road and show people how a healthy discussion should be. :) Be nice ;)
  [#permalink] 19 Aug 2007, 19:00
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