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The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read)

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The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2009, 14:40
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So, until last week despite a terrible economy and a whole house of cards tumbling in downtown and midtown Manhattan, it didn't look so bad for those with jobs.

As some of you may have seen, TARP got a new bit of legislation put in. It was a subtle piece of work called the "Employ American Workers Act". This was put in by Senators Sanders (I-Vt.) and Grassley (R-Iowa), or as we could probably call them, Bernie and Chuck.

Bernie & Chuck want to stop foreign people taking jobs in place of Americans at TARP funded banks for the next two years, by blocking access to H1-B visas for new workers*. A quick look at this shows that their target, as representatives in their states, is protecting jobs that are in the Customer Service Centers in Manchester or Des Moines. It is meant to be that jobs don't go to foreigners, they go to Americans.

While we can argue that this is pretty naive, and that it is protectionism in the beautiful ironic way that America always complains against, and as much as we can comfort this is being loyal to their constituents and they are old and conservative, the impact is beginning to ripple.

As of this week, one Bulge Bracket firm has pulled all offers to international, err - foreign, candidates, for fear that they will not get visas. If you read the paper, it suggests that F1 candidates on OPT (the 12 month training commitment post MBA as part of the F1 visa) can get H1B. The problem is that banks prefer to apply for H1B before graduation, as the timing is set that the status gets seriously weird when OPT runs out and H1B is granted but not active. Every other bank on the street is currently reviewing its position and will say little other than that they have lawyers on it. That said, every one of those banks will be very much aware of the conclusion drawn by the first firm to go vocal, and everyone is seriously concerned.

For those of you coming in to school, or those in Year one, I recommend that if you do not hold a US permanent resident permit, you are extremely cautious about recruiting with the US banks for US domestic roles. While the condition will fall off, it looks like none of the banks will take the risk. It may be seen that, on April 1st when the H1B pool moves, that there are possible ways around this. But if it does hold, for the near term it is a pointless pursuit.

I won't take the time to go into why this is the most shortsighted of policies and is likely to cause extensive long term damage to Wall Street - I don't think it needs me to explain that constraining a talent pool is never going to help solve a problem.

Personally, as a person directly impacted by this, I am writing to the Senators. I am going to put a face and a name to those impacted by their poor legal drafting and closed-minded policies. I will explain to them how they have actively achieved job destruction, as the jobs that me and a number of others have seen taken away are certain not to help the unemployment situation - the job will simply cease to exist.

I will try and keep you all updated. For the meantime I have to find another job, contemplate getting married so that I can stay with my significant other, and a whole host of other things.

I know that most people are very shocked by the protectionist move that the country has taken. I have never seen as many people apologize for government legislation as have to me over the past few days. Really, that doesn't help. If anyone knows how it is possible to contact the right people so that others aren't ruined by this abhorrent legal restriction, that would be useful.

I really hope this washes over and it is one bank with one bad interpretation. I think it will likely be all. And when you see the list of financial institutions that have taken Tarp money, you will notice how many places are now closed to workers.

* the exact facts on whether they are really impossible for MBAs to obtain is something that is being clarified, but looks to be the case and is certainly interpreted by some as this

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2009, 14:58
3underscore wrote:
.... If anyone knows how it is possible to contact the right people so that others aren't ruined by this abhorrent legal restriction, that would be useful....


Unless you don't have a direct contact in DC (even an intern) to hook you up with any government legislators, I would recommend you to start with your regional Chamber of Commerce. I have been involved with them in my city and I found that they can serve as good gateways to get in touch with higher officials (aka Senators etc). If you could get a 1:1 with your city Mayor, you can atleast escalate this issue (not that he/she is not aware of this problem).
Why not go to the media? Lou Dobbs show is a good one (ofcourse you are going to be beaten up by Chauvinistic attitude :) )

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2009, 15:05
Sadly, my City mayor is a little bit high profile. My friend does seem to have an interesting path of attack for us, but I am looking at any way of making this more public.

Not that foreigners not being allowed on wall street really has anyone caring.

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2009, 15:45
The whole thing is pretty sad. My bank used to recruit a lot of H1-B and in the past two years we started looking at people's status when we interviewed . We would only take the very very best internationals and we, at times, took a green cardholder or us citizen who was not as good. I really don't like it, students will have less incentives to attend our top schools if they can't get jobs and it is not good for US firms.

Disclaimer: I am biased, I went through the whole thing. Two F-1 , OPT, two H1-B and I am now a permanent resident.
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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2009, 21:17
The school have imigration lawyers or anyone helping you. I know Kellogg did a ton of imigration stuff this fall, a group attack might be more effective than individual letters from non-citizens. The administration of schools really need to be proactive in my opinion. People spend way too much money to come here for a degree and a chance at their dream careers.

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2009, 23:59
3underscore, its nice of you to make an effort in this regard and all, but lets assume the govt prevails and so does the stipulation, lets discuss what other avenues international students have of getting a job thats close to what they had dreamed for in US. Basically, where else does the US degree hold enough worth to warrant a good return? being based in the Saudi Arabia, I can say with full certainty that if Dubai wasn't crashing and burning right now, a US degree would give a good return there but then, that can be said for wall-street too!
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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 28 Feb 2009, 08:30
I assure you I will be looking into how to resolve an International situation. As it stands, I have nine months before a TARP funded bank (that I probably couldn't work for) comes knocking for loan money back.

I am of a position that I think the guys in Vermont & Iowa aren't really clear on how they truly are affecting individuals. I think personalizing the issue will help with this, and I am very tuned in to how the schools are working on the situation - it is strangely bringing them very close together. There are immigration lawyers I can speak to (and will), as well as an employment lawyer (in case the legalities are... entertaining). I am 99.999% sure no matter what I do with my immigration status it will not matter to a big bank. I need to think small, where people who want the person employed can offer some level of common sense and not straight legal counsel on an employment decision.

As I move on with looking for my job I will be able to give you an idea how Internationals can deal with this. I think in a likelihood it will get altered to mean future students are clearly protected.

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 28 Feb 2009, 10:00
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3underscore, its good that you came up with this and we all support what ever effort you are taking to make this public. One idea might be form a group of people who will be affected by this in facebook or somewhere and send a letter to senator with all the names and signature. When duke has stopped loans for internationals without a us co-signer from this year, one of duke admits formed this kind of group and it made positive impact. Lets try if we can utilize these kind of public connecting websites..
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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2009, 04:16
SV6 wrote:
3underscore, its good that you came up with this and we all support what ever effort you are taking to make this public. One idea might be form a group of people who will be affected by this in facebook or somewhere and send a letter to senator with all the names and signature. When duke has stopped loans for internationals without a us co-signer from this year, one of duke admits formed this kind of group and it made positive impact. Lets try if we can utilize these kind of public connecting websites..


I think this is a good idea - the past election cycle in the US demonstrated the power of grassroots efforts through the internet. One suggestion though: politicians being what they are, they will be not be very moved by a long list of non-US citizens' names on a petition for the simple reason that those names would represent 0 votes. I would make sure as you're recruiting people for your e-petition to try and recruit as many US citizens as possible.

Also, going through the local chamber of commerce is a good idea. Restricting the supply of talented international workers is not in business's best interests, and chambers of commerce would have better lobbying pull than individuals.

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[b]BofA withdraws job offers to foreign MBAs[/b] [#permalink] New post 08 Mar 2009, 18:59
At the FT:

View As Web Page

BofA withdraws job offers to foreign MBAs

By Della Bradshaw in London

Published: March 9 2009 00:07 | Last updated: March 9 2009 00:07

Bank of America has become the first US bank to withdraw job offers made to MBA students graduating from US business schools this summer, citing conditions laid out in its bail-out deal as the reason.

The recently passed $787bn stimulus bill in effect prevents financial institutions that have received money from the government’s troubled asset relief programme from applying for H1-B visas for highly skilled immigrants if they have recently made US workers redundant.

BofA, which has received a total of $45bn in Tarp funds, is in the process of digesting two large acquisitions – Countrywide, the mortgage broker, and Merrill Lynch – which will see thousands of jobs lost.

A spokesman for the bank said: “Recent changes in legislation made it necessary for Bank of America to rescind job offers it had made to students requiring H-1B sponsorship.”

The number of international students affected by the BofA move is thought to be no more than 50 but business schools are concerned that other banks could follow suit.

Traditionally, about a third of MBA students at the leading US schools have taken up finance and banking jobs on graduation, with about a third of those MBAs coming from outside the US.

Some supporters of freer migration have criticised the Tarp measure for threatening to cut the US off from foreign talent and encouraging tit-for-tat retaliation by other countries.

One concern for business school deans is that students who have traditionally studied in the US may go elsewhere. “There might be an inclination for people from around the world to vote with their feet,” says David Schmittlein, dean of MIT’s Sloan school of management in Boston.

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 03 Aug 2011, 09:49
Guys, Can anybody shed some light on how IB recruiting is for internationals now?
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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 08:03
It is OK - TARP is all gone so it is just back to being as challenging as it used to be (not so bad in IB, difficult in S&T)

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 19:11
I am actually a little oblivious of this. But is the TARP regulation still there or has it been removed ?

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 24 Sep 2011, 08:17
All of the bigger banks have repaid TARP so that rule doesn't apply (some still have it outstanding but really not ones you would know, very much smaller regionals). The outstanding warrants that exist were more a debt kicker like Warren Buffett tries to get, so they have no such power.

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 24 Sep 2011, 08:27
very interesting read.... thanks for posting!

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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read) [#permalink] New post 24 Sep 2011, 10:36
3underscore wrote:
All of the bigger banks have repaid TARP so that rule doesn't apply (some still have it outstanding but really not ones you would know, very much smaller regionals). The outstanding warrants that exist were more a debt kicker like Warren Buffett tries to get, so they have no such power.


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Re: The new way wall street works (Foreigners need read)   [#permalink] 24 Sep 2011, 10:36
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