Find all School-related info fast with the new School-Specific MBA Forum

It is currently 21 Aug 2014, 04:11

Close

GMAT Club Daily Prep

Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

Events & Promotions

Events & Promotions in June
Open Detailed Calendar

The news on Lehman

  Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  
Author Message
TAGS:
Director
Director
User avatar
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Location: Chicago
Schools: Chicago Booth 2011
Followers: 9

Kudos [?]: 82 [0], given: 1

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2008, 08:05
Nerdboy wrote:
rhyme wrote:
Agreed. A lot of people who did banking for the summer are suddenly talking about MC. I can appreciate that banking isn't doing great at the moment and that makes people nervous, but I'm surprised how many people are choosing career paths strictly by immediate earning potential and nothing else.


True. However, if you are graduating right now and there are simply no job offers in IB, what do yo do? Maybe they are not choosing at all, just looking at what is available.


How difficult will it be to get back into IB if/when Wall St recovers, if one chooses to do MC post-graduation. I assume the IB internship will be helpful to a certain extent, especially for career changers.
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 1634
Location: Southern California
Schools: Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
Followers: 8

Kudos [?]: 176 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2008, 08:10
sonibubu wrote:
Nerdboy wrote:
rhyme wrote:
Agreed. A lot of people who did banking for the summer are suddenly talking about MC. I can appreciate that banking isn't doing great at the moment and that makes people nervous, but I'm surprised how many people are choosing career paths strictly by immediate earning potential and nothing else.


True. However, if you are graduating right now and there are simply no job offers in IB, what do yo do? Maybe they are not choosing at all, just looking at what is available.


How difficult will it be to get back into IB if/when Wall St recovers, if one chooses to do MC post-graduation. I assume the IB internship will be helpful to a certain extent, especially for career changers.


Extremely difficult, I would assume. They would find it awkward to place someone with 2-3 years of post-MBA experience as a 1st year associate, and someone with 2-3 years of MC experience doesn't have enough experience to justify being a 2nd/3rd year associate or 1st year VP. Additionally, banks have very formal and structured recruiting. There are not very many outliers that get in outside of the campus recruiting cycles.

The only way I could see this being possible is if you get into an M&A Advisory or Private Equity Advisory group at lets say McKinsey's New York office, network like crazy, and make it happen.
_________________

Check out the new Career Forum
http://gmatclub.com/forum/133

SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 2308
Schools: Darden
Followers: 38

Kudos [?]: 421 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2008, 09:35
I'm not at all surprised that 2nd year students who did IB during the summer are now looking at consulting. I believe a very large portion of new MBA students have the goal of landing the best possible job. I think relatively few are highly attached to any particular industry. Banking and consulting firms share many characteristics that are important to MBA students planning their careers. Bulge-bracket banks and top consulting firms have name recognition with MBA students knowing that statistics show people graduating today will change 10 times during their careers, some blue-chip work experience will definitely be valuable down the road. In addition to the name, these jobs both provide experiences that are highly valued down the line. If life situations change 3 years after graduation (need a new profession, new city, more pay, less hours, whatever) a top banking or consulting job will probably offer the most options (of popular MBA destinations).

The recruiting schedule for banking and consulting are both highly structured at the top schools. This is really a very important point - it's easy to see how schmoozing and interview can lead to a job with one of these firms - there's much more uncertainty and much more individual effort required to land other types of jobs. Plus, it's pretty easy to define what people do in each of the professions, and the highly selective nature of both jobs a nice chip to have going forward as well (it shows you beat out a lot of highly qualified people for a desirable job). Both jobs also offer a somewhat structured path to advancement - if you do well you'll be a vice president or senior manager (or whatever title is appropriate for a given firm) after 3-4 years. Can't really say that about a lot of other types of jobs - exactly what does one become after associate brand manager, and how long does that take? What title (and compensation) will you have after an MBA rotational program ends? Other types of jobs are even more nebulous.

Money is another factor of course, but not just starting compensation and signing bonuses (which are high). Banking and consulting both offer substantial compensation increases early on the career (along with bonuses, tuition reimbursement, etc.) In a lot of marketing and general management roles, it's hard to see what you need to do exactly to reach the next level - are you going to be making 3% pay increases for the next 6 years? Who knows. Many MBA students have substantial debt to consider, and many had good jobs before starting business school - nobody wants to spend two years accumulating debt to discover that their lifestyle quotient is now lower (with new debts and expenses) than before they started school, and with no relief in sight.

Certainly, the two professions have big differences. Travel and hours are the two biggest of course; some people will probably view them equally, while others will prefer (actually dislike) one more than the other. Both jobs require analysis, modeling, planning, strategy to different degrees and in many cases the work is pretty similar (check out how much emphasis Bain puts on the PE practice in their presentations). But really, the major factors are the opportunity to juice the career track and the opportunities that these professions open down the road. Most MBA students (at least 2/3 according to adcom presentations I've attended) do not know exactly what they want to do when the step on campus. Banking and consulting recruiting will rope people in during the first year (many people at different schools noted this in another thread), and in many cases people just fall into the recruiting rhythm of a particular track. I bet a lot of people didn't necessarily choose banking as first years because they believed it was the only thing for them, but rather started attending events because banks were the first to show up, were so busy they couldn't consider other job tracks, and accepted offers because banks hand them out first (consulting right afterwards in both cases).

As far as when banking will come back, it's hard to guess. This year is a bloodbath for 2nd year students. I think firms will still do recruiting for first-year students, though relationships have definitely changed. I think it's correct that people who do not get into banking right now will probably not have much opportunity to jump back in 2-3 years from now.
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 1634
Location: Southern California
Schools: Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
Followers: 8

Kudos [?]: 176 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2008, 20:03
This is truly scary.

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/04 ... dex_01.htm
_________________

Check out the new Career Forum
http://gmatclub.com/forum/133

Senior Manager
Senior Manager
User avatar
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 410
Schools: Wharton, Booth, Stern
Followers: 11

Kudos [?]: 79 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2008, 20:25
terp06 wrote:


I love the way they try to spin absolute horror stories in positive ways :-D

"I had an offer from Goldman Sachs, unfortunately that fell through and I saw my salary cut by 92%, but it's ok because now I'm working for a debt recovering agency in Des Moines, where I can truly express my communication skills. I really recommend grads to be flexible and have an open mind to different careers".
_________________

Wharton admits, join the rugby team!! It'll be by far the best experience of your MBA life

SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 1634
Location: Southern California
Schools: Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
Followers: 8

Kudos [?]: 176 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2008, 20:57
Audio wrote:
terp06 wrote:


I love the way they try to spin absolute horror stories in positive ways :-D

"I had an offer from Goldman Sachs, unfortunately that fell through and I saw my salary cut by 92%, but it's ok because now I'm working for a debt recovering agency in Des Moines, where I can truly express my communication skills. I really recommend grads to be flexible and have an open mind to different careers".


Seriously. Some of these positions are generally held by people who graduated from MBA programs ranked outside of the Top 50 in a decent economic time. It is really sad if a graduate of Fuqua or UCLA Anderson has to take them due to a weak economy. There is only one M7 grad on that list (Kellogg). I would assume that most M7 schools are largely sheltered from this stuff, but if you go to an elite, I feel really bad for you right now.

Once the window is closed on banking/consulting, it will almost never open again.

I'm considering dropping Tuck from my list for this year. The thought of sitting around in Hanover, engaging in fratty antics, and being jobless is extremely depressing.
_________________

Check out the new Career Forum
http://gmatclub.com/forum/133

SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 2308
Schools: Darden
Followers: 38

Kudos [?]: 421 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2008, 21:16
Well, there's no doubt that things turned a whole lot uglier in the last 2 weeks. With the damage the market has taken the past few days, it's hard to imagine any industries hiring with much confidence. What that means is that some may delay hiring until later or put off hiring altogether. The firms that are planning to hire will probably hire conservatively (fewer).

The one positive trend that does seem to be playing out is that certain regular MBA recruiters are tying to use their relative strength in the current market to attract people they wouldn't normally be able to land. For example, mid-level consulting firms and rotational programs like Accenture, IBM & the oil companies appear eager snap up a few extra folks who in past years would have been headed to Lehman, Merrill (perhaps Morgan & Goldman, and I don't think PE firms will be doing much hiring this year either). Even Big 3 consulting firms have been actively contacting folks who interned at top banks this past summer (I've been feeling kind of popular actually). We'll see how things play out and if more offers than usual emerge from these sources.

I think 2nd year students with strong resumes (at elite schools) will still find pretty respectable job prospects. This is definitely a year where it's nice to have a resume with some blue chip names for work and school backgrounds, some honors and scholarships, and a nice GMAT score for garnish. Definitely wouldn't want to be in the bottom 1/3 this year. I can't even guess what 1st year internship recruiting plans are like right now - which firms are confident they will be around in 2 years?

I think that BW article was designed to offer some hope, but really does come across as pretty scary. Graduating into a bad job market is no picnic, and this particular downturn could be historic. (Don't tell me that anyone a year ago, or even 2 weeks ago predicted that Morgan might be forced into a merger). I think the article does offer one useful piece of advice - if you can get somewhere to hole up and hone your skills for a few years, you can make the best of the situation. The advice about being open-minded about career choices (essentially settling for whatever is available) is sad and make me want to cry.
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 1634
Location: Southern California
Schools: Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
Followers: 8

Kudos [?]: 176 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2008, 22:25
pelihu wrote:
I think that BW article was designed to offer some hope, but really does come across as pretty scary. Graduating into a bad job market is no picnic, and this particular downturn could be historic. (Don't tell me that anyone a year ago, or even 2 weeks ago predicted that Morgan might be forced into a merger). I think the article does offer one useful piece of advice - if you can get somewhere to hole up and hone your skills for a few years, you can make the best of the situation. The advice about being open-minded about career choices (essentially settling for whatever is available) is sad and make me want to cry.


Agreed. If I graduated into a tough market, there is no way I would settle and work for a company that I wasn't excited about. I think the better advice for people really interested in IB/PE and other selective industries is to tough it out, stay unemployed for 6-8 months while your friends have stable salaries at the Coca-Colas and Accentures of the world, and wait until you land something in the field that you are interested in, even if it may not be the most prestigous (boutique bank, middle-market bank, small cap PE, etc.).

If I graduated and started working in Financial Reporting at a Fortune 500, then to me, an MBA would have been an utter waste and an irresponsible use of my money and time. People need to follow their dreams and not let the availability of campus recruiting and on-campus offers be the end of their search. I suppose this is easier said than done for most people when you have the deadly combination of a mountain of debt, an F500 offer for $120K base, and peer pressure from your classmates.
_________________

Check out the new Career Forum
http://gmatclub.com/forum/133

SVP
SVP
avatar
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1502
Schools: NYU Stern '11
Followers: 15

Kudos [?]: 205 [0], given: 22

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2008, 06:09
With Wachovia and Morgan Stanley now talking merger, and BoA / Merrill looking more sure, it seems like Charlotte is the new New York. *gasp*

UNC is the new Columbia? :-D


*tongue in cheek, of course*
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 278
Schools: MIT
Followers: 4

Kudos [?]: 24 [0], given: 3

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2008, 12:01
pelihu -

Obviously, I don't know much about your situation or know you personally, but how has the last week affected your job prospects? Were you planning to return to the i-banking firm that you interned with this summer? If you don't mind me asking, is that still the plan? I'm just curious how this is affecting someone that has already completed an internship (and one that seemed to be pretty good, judging from your posts).
1 KUDOS received
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 2308
Schools: Darden
Followers: 38

Kudos [?]: 421 [1] , given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2008, 13:16
1
This post received
KUDOS
smkrn wrote:
pelihu -

Obviously, I don't know much about your situation or know you personally, but how has the last week affected your job prospects? Were you planning to return to the i-banking firm that you interned with this summer? If you don't mind me asking, is that still the plan? I'm just curious how this is affecting someone that has already completed an internship (and one that seemed to be pretty good, judging from your posts).


Actually, my plan even before the start of the summer was to explore opportunities in investment management. The IB recruiting cycle starts really early and I jumped on board last fall, but later in the year I got involved with Darden Capital Management and found that to be very interesting. That said, I actually had a very good experience doing banking over the summer (was lucky enough to work in LA, my hometown, with my top choice firm) and would have seriously considered accepting an offer under normal circumstances.

Of course, things have changed a lot, between last fall with recruiting and the start of the summer, between the start of the summer and the end of the summer, and drastically again in the past few weeks. Jobs in banking will definitely be more challenging to land this year, but folks who interned at bulge bracket banks are actually getting a lot of attention from smaller banks and boutiques (just got hit with 2 invites in the past 1/2 hour to private recruiting events). I actually think that people who were with the bulge brackets last summer have a good shot to land with smaller investment banks (I'm speaking of Darden, I can't imagine how smaller banks will accommodate the numbers at Columbia or NYU), but a lot of important factors have changed since last fall.

So everyone will have different factors that are important to them. I'd love to return to California (many investment management jobs are in the North East) and I'd like a job with a fairly stable firm with a good prospects for business growth going forward. The opportunity to build experience is valuable, and adding a blue chip name to the resume is a plus for me as well (I've worked for private firms and started my own business before business school). I don't mind long hours if pay is commensurate, and I don't want to be forced to travel to "flyover country" on a regular basis. I think identifying what you are looking for is a better exercise than just defining a specific job or industry track. Sure, I'd like to do banking, but not if I have to live in Cleveland (sorry to anyone who lives there) and accept pay that is far off the pace.

So, based on my own profile, I'd love to find a money manager in California, a hedge fund or investment management company. I would definitely consider a boutique bank if they look well positioned to capture some market share (and with all the big names going down, market share is up for grabs for sure), and especially if they let me work in California. I've also been talking to consulting firms (they're making a push for summer bankers as well) and if I can work out of an office in California targeting a West Coast business, that could be a good option given uncertainty in the finance industry. The specifics are important though, some consulting firms average 2-3 days of travel per week, some 4-5 days; some staff projects nationally (cross-country flights) and some regionally.

A month ago, or even a week ago, few would have guessed that Morgan and Goldman would be under such pressure, so it's hard to say what a good job in banking is at this point. I really believe that things will come around, and in a year or two banking will again be a preferred MBA destination, but it's pretty hard to figure out where to hang your hat for now. I'm definitely leaning towards other options at this point, but I'm thankful that bulge bracket experience is highly valued, given the challenging job market right now.
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Location: Washington DC
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 26 [0], given: 4

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2008, 14:48
solaris1 wrote:
With Wachovia and Morgan Stanley now talking merger, and BoA / Merrill looking more sure, it seems like Charlotte is the new New York. *gasp*

UNC is the new Columbia? :-D


*tongue in cheek, of course*

Thats good way to look.. I agree with others that this year gonna be tough for MBA grads.. I had similar exp when I graduated in 2002 from eng college.. just after 9/11 my classmates were doing job hunting..Open minded and flexibility to look for other options is definately a key to survive.. But again the question remain..many people do mba to land into their dream jobs whether it is IB or MC or PE..so its sad to make difficult choices at that time..anyways
..atleast one industry is going to boom during this season..B school consulting..thats for sure..
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 1634
Location: Southern California
Schools: Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
Followers: 8

Kudos [?]: 176 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2008, 14:56
Priceless

http://www.leveragedsellout.com/2008/09 ... -crashers/

Reluctantly, Gopal snapped back to reality. Shaking his head, he couldn’t believe what they were even thinking about: “Bro. The **** economy is falling apart. Lehman just went bankrupt, Merrill got acquired by **** BofA—BoafA, dude.”

“It’s like **** Target just acquired Neiman Marcus, and you are coming to my desk talking about some random benefit? This is not 2006!”
_________________

Check out the new Career Forum
http://gmatclub.com/forum/133

VP
VP
User avatar
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 1045
Location: New York, NY
Schools: Chicago Booth Class of 2010
Followers: 10

Kudos [?]: 156 [0], given: 3

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2008, 18:26
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
User avatar
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 385
Location: Europe
Schools: St. Gallen '09
Followers: 6

Kudos [?]: 56 [0], given: 5

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2008, 03:42
pelihu wrote:
So, based on my own profile, I'd love to find a money manager in California, a hedge fund or investment management company. I would definitely consider a boutique bank if they look well positioned to capture some market share (and with all the big names going down, market share is up for grabs for sure), and especially if they let me work in California. I've also been talking to consulting firms (they're making a push for summer bankers as well) and if I can work out of an office in California targeting a West Coast business, that could be a good option given uncertainty in the finance industry. The specifics are important though, some consulting firms average 2-3 days of travel per week, some 4-5 days; some staff projects nationally (cross-country flights) and some regionally.


I assume PIMCO in Newport Beach is on your wish list?
Director
Director
User avatar
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Location: Chicago
Schools: Chicago Booth 2011
Followers: 9

Kudos [?]: 82 [0], given: 1

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2008, 03:52
Am I reading this correctly on Yahoo? The SEC has banned short selling temporarily?

I wonder how the market will react.
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 2308
Schools: Darden
Followers: 38

Kudos [?]: 421 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2008, 06:39
trader1 wrote:
pelihu wrote:
So, based on my own profile, I'd love to find a money manager in California, a hedge fund or investment management company. I would definitely consider a boutique bank if they look well positioned to capture some market share (and with all the big names going down, market share is up for grabs for sure), and especially if they let me work in California. I've also been talking to consulting firms (they're making a push for summer bankers as well) and if I can work out of an office in California targeting a West Coast business, that could be a good option given uncertainty in the finance industry. The specifics are important though, some consulting firms average 2-3 days of travel per week, some 4-5 days; some staff projects nationally (cross-country flights) and some regionally.


I assume PIMCO in Newport Beach is on your wish list?


I have a contact there, I like Newport Beach and of course PIMCO is an awesome place, but I don't like fixed income. I haven't been in contact with them yet, but I probably will at some point.
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
User avatar
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 410
Schools: Wharton, Booth, Stern
Followers: 11

Kudos [?]: 79 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 20 Sep 2008, 04:19
I wonder if I'll get a loan next year for my MBA with this crisis.
_________________

Wharton admits, join the rugby team!! It'll be by far the best experience of your MBA life

GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
User avatar
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4320
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Schools: Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
Followers: 78

Kudos [?]: 692 [0], given: 5

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 20 Sep 2008, 05:50
Yes, international students may have a hard time due to the difficulty of getting credit. A lot of schools are getting rid of their loan programs for internationals too...I know GSB did this past summer and many already got rid of them. Might be smart to check on that stuff before choosing schools. It would suck to reject a school that guarantees loans for another that doesnt only to not be able to land funding.
_________________

Kellogg Class of 2010...still active and willing to help. However, I do not do profile reviews, don't offer predictions on chances and am far to busy to review essays, so save the energy of writing me a PM seeking help for these. If I don't respond to a PM that is not one of the previously mentioned trash can destined messages, please don't take it personally I get so many messages I have a hard to responding to most. The more interesting, compelling, or humorous you message the more likely I am to respond.
Get the best GMAT Prep Resources with GMAT Club Premium Membership

Current Student
User avatar
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Location: Milan
Schools: Wharton, LBS, UChicago, Kellogg MMM (Donald Jacobs Scholarship), Stanford, HBS
Followers: 6

Kudos [?]: 134 [0], given: 3

GMAT Tests User
Re: The news on Lehman [#permalink] New post 21 Sep 2008, 06:08
I think the GSB already replaced their loan program for internationals with another one, no co-signer required.

It would be useful to have an overview of the situation of loans for internationals across the M7 schools, it is indeed an important criterion when it comes to finalizing one's school list.

Anyway, I can't see how banks might be not willing to loan to people who get an admit from such schools, I can't think of a more secure investment.
Re: The news on Lehman   [#permalink] 21 Sep 2008, 06:08
    Similar topics Author Replies Last post
Similar
Topics:
How to unwind Lehman Brothers... trader1 0 09 Jul 2009, 13:02
1 how math killed Lehman Brothers Praetorian 4 30 Jun 2009, 20:15
UBS cut 1900, Lehman 750. 131,700 jobs lost since July 2007 togafoot 0 30 Sep 2008, 17:59
Lehman Bankruptcy? Bank of America / Merrill Lynch merger? solaris1 11 14 Sep 2008, 13:19
Lehman reports record loss kwam 5 09 Jun 2008, 05:51
Display posts from previous: Sort by

The news on Lehman

  Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  

Go to page   Previous    1   2   3   4   5   6   7    Next  [ 140 posts ] 



GMAT Club MBA Forum Home| About| Privacy Policy| Terms and Conditions| GMAT Club Rules| Contact| Sitemap

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group and phpBB SEO

Kindly note that the GMAT® test is a registered trademark of the Graduate Management Admission Council®, and this site has neither been reviewed nor endorsed by GMAC®.