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The proposed health care bill would increase government

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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 10:35
OA is "D" I believe....the first sentence is complete and the sentence after the ; tells you what that secret was.
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 10:45
It needs to be ":" instead of ";" in that case, baner. :hammer

And you posted two questions in this thread so you owe us two OAs. (I would have split them if only I had seen it sooner. :P)
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 11:38
I was too quick in pulling the trigger
"workers changing jobs doesn't make sense in B"

:saw
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 12:40
HongHu wrote:
It needs to be ":" instead of ";" in that case, baner. :hammer

And you posted two questions in this thread so you owe us two OAs. (I would have split them if only I had seen it sooner. :P)


Sorry OAs are B and D. Also Honghu, it is ";" not ":" in the ques that I got. I think semicolon is legit here.
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 12:50
Why is semicolon legit here? And doesn't (B) for first question miss a "that" in the end?
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 13:07
HongHu wrote:
banerjeea_98 wrote:
HongHu wrote:
D and C for me.


Honghu, cud u confirm if choice "A" in Q # 1 has run-on sentence i.e. botht the senetences can stand on its own. Thx !


"The proposed health care bill would increase government regulation, establish standards. "

It's not exactly a run-on sentence since the second part is not a complete sentence. But it is missing a "and" to connect the two words.


Hi HongHu:

Are you saying the following sentence is wrong? Lets say the original statement was constructed as follows:

The proposed health care bill would increase government regulation of health insurance, establish standards that would guarantee wider access to people with past health problems and to workers changing jobs

The proposed health care bill would <element a>, <element b>

Parallelism between element a and element b
Within element b you have 2 phrases that again exhibit parallelism- <phrase a> and <phrase b>

Wouldnt this be a correct construction?
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Re: SC#5 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 14:26
HongHu wrote:
(A) and (B) is wrong for "has". In (D) the second portion of the sentence seemed dangled. In (E) it sounds like Lincoln was discovered.

(C) does seem to say that the Yankee peddler had learned a secret in his young manhood, rather than that Lincoln had discovered the secret in his young manhood, but it is the lesser of the devils, I think.

banerjeea_98 wrote:
Lincoln, discovering in young manhood the secret that the Yankee peddler has learned before him, knew how to use a good story to generate good will.

(A) Lincoln, discovering in young manhood the secret that the Yankee peddler has learned before him, knew
(B) Discovering in young manhood the secret that the Yankee peddler has learned before him, Lincoln knew
© Lincoln, discovering the secret that the Yankee peddler had learned in young manhood before him, knew
(D) In young manhood Lincoln discovered the secret that the Yankee peddler had learned before him;
(E) Lincoln, discovered in young manhood the secret that the Yankee peddler had learned before him, knew


Baner, how can D be the OA for the second questions? ";" separate two indepent sentence, and the second sentence doesn't have a subject. ":" will make sense here. Please explain why ";" is right. Thanks.
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 15:01
hmmm...isn't "how to use a good story to generate good will" a complete sentence ? Also what are the differences in ";" and ":", I am not clear on that.
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 16:45
banerjeea_98 wrote:
hmmm...isn't "how to use a good story to generate good will" a complete sentence ?


No it is not. It lacks Verb. It is a Noun Phrase.

I can take (D) as answer if it is ":". As far as I remember ":" is synonymous to Paranthesis (to some extent).
Given ":", "how to use.." will be used as an Absolute phrase modifying the whole main clause.
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2005, 20:00
I agree with jpv for question 2.

gmataquaguy wrote:
Hi HongHu:

Are you saying the following sentence is wrong?
The proposed health care bill would <element a>, <element b>

Wouldnt this be a correct construction?


Yes this structure is wrong. The sentence correctly used parallelism but lacked a conjunction between element a and element b.

For example, you can't say
"I like apples, pears."
You have to say
"I like apples and pears."
Or "I like apples, pears, and grapefruits."
You must have a "and" before the last parallel element.
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 [#permalink] New post 09 Apr 2005, 06:23
Oh ure right. I totally forgot about that.

If there were a coordinating conjuction such as an "and" would my structure be correct - the blue, green and red elements?
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Apr 2005, 05:44
gmataquaguy wrote:
Oh ure right. I totally forgot about that.

If there were a coordinating conjuction such as an "and" would my structure be correct - the blue, green and red elements?


HongHu, Paul, DJ and other SC experts could you please confirm whether my logic is accurate or not?
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Apr 2005, 07:05
Should the conjunction be there, I would agree with your construction gmataquaguy
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Apr 2005, 19:56
Should you need addition explanation on participial phrases and absolute phrases, please follow this link: http://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 8201#58201
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Apr 2005, 20:28
Hi, Paul,

both the OA's of two questions are too weird.

What's your opinion?
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 [#permalink] New post 15 Apr 2005, 09:55
What is the source of these question? I disagree with the OA especially the second question
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 [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2005, 00:27
We haven't yet got a good explanation for the second question
"Lincoln, discovering in young manhood the secret that the Yankee peddler has learned before him, knew how to use a good story to generate good will.
(A) Lincoln, discovering in young manhood the secret that the Yankee peddler has learned before him, knew
(B) Discovering in young manhood the secret that the Yankee peddler has learned before him, Lincoln knew
(C) Lincoln, discovering the secret that the Yankee peddler had learned in young manhood before him, knew
(D) In young manhood Lincoln discovered the secret that the Yankee peddler had learned before him;
(E) Lincoln, discovered in young manhood the secret that the Yankee peddler had learned before him, knew "

Baner:- You can refer to Elements Of Style (William Strunk) for usage of : and ;
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 [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2005, 12:32
Paul wrote:
Should you need addition explanation on participial phrases and absolute phrases, please follow this link: http://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 8201#58201


Paul this is good stuff. A very nice explanation. I have some follow up questions. In the details of the thread you say the following

Paul wrote:
B is correct by introducing a participial phrase which would solve the issue. A participial phrase acts as an adjective modifying the subject of the preceding clause. Therefore, the noun it modifies does NOT have to be next to it.
Consider this example:
http://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9317
Preceding noun is "one another". Yet, "beating and adopting" is modifying "the cells"
You might also want to read a bit more about participial phrases:
http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/phra ... articipial


I went through the thread and i was wondering whether a participial phrase has to modify the SUBJECT of the preceding clause. It seems to me like a participial phrase could modify either subject or object of a clause. For e.g.

In the example: "A peculiar feature of the embryonic mammalian circulatory system is that in the area of the heart the cells adhere to one another, beating in unison and adopting specialized orientations exclusive of one another"

Here the participial phrase "beating and adopting" modify "the cells" which i dont think is the subject. The object of a clause perhaps....

While in the example "The proposed health care bill would increase government regulation of health insurance, establishing standards that would guarantee wider access to people with past health problems and to workers who are changing jobs and "

the participial phrase introduced by "establishing....." modifies the subject "Bill".

So i'm inclined to think that a participial phrase can modify the ANY noun within the previous clause. Not necessarily a subject of the precending clause. Sorry i dont mean to nitpick or anything just want to clarify my concepts.

Question #2:

After reviewing http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/phra ... articipial, I would like for you to clarify one more thing:

Under the "Absolute Phrase" Section,

The old firefighter stood over the smoking ruins, his senses alert to any sign of another flare-up.
His subordinates, their faces sweat-streaked and smudged with ash, leaned heavily against the firetruck.

How do you distinguish between an subordinate clause and Absolute Phrase. The stuff in bold could easily pass for a clause [has a subject and verb]. No?? If not why? I understand the difference between a phrase and clause but after reading webster's definition of an absolute phrase, I am looking at these examples and am wondering how are these phrases and not clauses?
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Apr 2005, 17:55
#1)
You are absolutely right about my being wrong about the participial phrase. The two examples I gave are actually those for absolute phrases and how do you distinguish the two? An absolute phrase could use the present/past participle like a participial phrase but unlike the latter, it will not act as a subject modifying a specific noun. Go through the participial phrases examples again and you will see that they modify specific noun preceding those phrases. On the other hand, absolute phrases could modify a whole sentence, the subject or even the object of the preceding clause. See how that better fits the question at hand and you will see that those 2 previous examples describe an absolute phrase.


#2)
Simple enough. Present/past participle will have a verb stem but will act as adjectives, not as verb. Let's look at the examples you gave:

[...]his senses alert to any sign of another flare-up. --> Are the "senses" performing any action? No. They are just "alert to X" and that part starting with "alert" is playing the role of an adjective modifying "senses".

The same will apply to the second example and I will give you one more example:
eg The paper, written by Mark, was fantastic --> within comma is a participial phrase which modifies preceding noun/subject. It is probably more obvious here because past participle form of "to write" is more obvious but the same would apply for verbs where simple past is same as past participle.
eg The towel, bleached by detergent, was white in color --> The same thing here. "bleached" is not an action performed by "towel". Instead, it is a participial phrase acting as an adjective modifying "towel".
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 [#permalink] New post 28 Apr 2005, 13:22
Paul wrote:

#1)
You are absolutely right about my being wrong about the participial phrase. The two examples I gave are actually those for absolute phrases and how do you distinguish the two? An absolute phrase could use the present/past participle like a participial phrase but unlike the latter, it will not act as a subject modifying a specific noun.



Thanks again for clarifying that the above 2 examples arent participle phrases. My lack of understanding the difference between a "participle phrase" and absolute phrase caused me to use the wrong verbiage. I've created a summary that perhaps other could benifit from:

Absolute Phrase is a super set of Participle Phrases - they could use participles as a modifying element and modify a) object or b) subject or c) the entire clause preceding it.

Whereas Participle Phrases HAVE TO modify the noun [noun here is a superset of subject] RIGHT before, like this example below:

The paper, written by Mark, was fantastic. Here the participle written HAS TO succeed the subject Paper. Absolute phrase do not have this requirement.


Paul wrote:


#2) Simple enough. Present/past participle will have a verb stem but will act as adjectives, not as verb. Let's look at the examples you gave:

[...]his senses alert to any sign of another flare-up. --> Are the "senses" performing any action? No. They are just "alert to X" and that part starting with "alert" is playing the role of an adjective modifying "senses".

The same will apply to the second example and I will give you one more example:
eg The paper, written by Mark, was fantastic --> within comma is a participial phrase which modifies preceding noun/subject. It is probably more obvious here because past participle form of "to write" is more obvious but the same would apply for verbs where simple past is same as past participle.
eg The towel, bleached by detergent, was white in color --> The same thing here. "bleached" is not an action performed by "towel". Instead, it is a participial phrase acting as an adjective modifying "towel".


Thanks again for your wonderful explanation, Paul. This is a fabulous thread with tons of nuggets.
  [#permalink] 28 Apr 2005, 13:22
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