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The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are

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Re: SC: cost-cutting !!GMATPREP!! [#permalink] New post 29 Dec 2010, 19:10
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There is a rule in modification that if a modifier is inessential, then it has to be set off with a comma, in which case the clause should complete the intended meaning in full without considering the modifier. In D and E, the prepositional modifiers are separated by a comma, but the intended meaning of the passage can not be completed without considering the modifiers. Therefore, the use of comma before the preposition ‘with’ is grammatically incorrect. Hence D and E can be dropped.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 31 Mar 2012, 13:05
After reviewing this topic and also other topics about the same question, I didn't find an answer to my question:
Why is it OK to use present participant ("falling")?
I have expected it to be "had fallen", since it happened 2 years ago and after it the profits got better ("increased), or in other words:
1st action (Past Perfect) ---> 2nd action (Past Simple) ---> PRESENT.

Thank you.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 31 Mar 2012, 14:31
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen



Correct answer is C.

"which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling"

Correctly explains the situation in the question stem. Also in parallel with the question stem question.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 01 Apr 2012, 08:42
Sarang wrote:
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

Correct answer is C.
"which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling"
Correctly explains the situation in the question stem. Also in parallel with the question stem question.


Were you trying to answer my question or did you just see the question and answered the original post :roll:
I was asking only about the verb "falling" and its tense...
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2012, 03:05
Jump up...

After reviewing this topic and also other topics about the same question, I didn't find an answer to my question:
Why is it OK to use present participant ("falling")?
I have expected it to be "had fallen", since it happened 2 years ago and after it the profits got better ("increased), or in other words:
1st action (Past Perfect) ---> 2nd action (Past Simple) ---> PRESENT.

Thank you.

EDIT: :wall people just answer the original SC question, without even looking at the latest posts and what was asked in them!

Last edited by FuzzyBuzzard on 08 Apr 2012, 04:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 08 Apr 2012, 04:29
+1 C

profits is plural hence "Have increased" is correct hence C
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 20 Oct 2012, 21:37
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FuzzyBuzzard wrote:
Jump up...

After reviewing this topic and also other topics about the same question, I didn't find an answer to my question:
Why is it OK to use present participant ("falling")?
I have expected it to be "had fallen", since it happened 2 years ago and after it the profits got better ("increased), or in other words:
1st action (Past Perfect) ---> 2nd action (Past Simple) ---> PRESENT.

Thank you.

EDIT: :wall people just answer the original SC question, without even looking at the latest posts and what was asked in them!


Must say, you raised an interesting question.
My take: Since its quite evident that one event precedes another, since the relative clause uses " over the last two years", I think it was redundant to use "had fallen".
ex- Sam had done his homework before going for date last night.
The above sentence is rather incorrect because the sequence of event is quite clear by the use of before.
The correct sentence could have been: Sam had done his homework, when he went for the date. OR Sam had done his homework before he went for the date.

Hope its clear.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 21 Oct 2012, 21:48
C is the right answer because the pronoun, "which", sounds more correct than the usage of "with". Also the sequence of events is pretty clear- just rearrange to make sense - which after falling over the last 2 years have increased five percent during the first three months of this year.
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Re: SC: cost-cutting !!GMATPREP!! [#permalink] New post 02 Nov 2012, 03:17
VeritasPrepBrian wrote:
Hey noboru,

I'll take the bait! My rationale for C over D has a few points:

1) "Which" in C is a clear modifier - it directly says that the profits have increased after the profits fell, so it has a very clear meaning whereas, at first glance to me, "with" seemed a little less direct. Honestly, upon first glance that was enough for me - C was clearer, and therefore better, than D.

2) Upon further review, I'll even say this - what is the subject of the verb "falling" in D? We haven't set up "profits" as a subject (as we did with "which" as a reflexive pronoun in C), so D has an unclear meaning - what fell?

3) "with" in D should have a meaning as something that joins two things, so it seems like it would link "are evident in its profits...with an increase", making "profits" and "an increase" as two separate and equivalent items...and that's an illogical meaning because the "increase" doesn't have a clear number or value in that case. You can't simply have "an increase" - that increase has to be attached to a number, a figure, etc. So the word "with" in D introduces a lack of clarity throughout the underlined portion - the increase is vague and the verb "falling" has no subject. D is incorrect on several counts.


Hi Brian,
Thanks for the clarification..

Could you please let us know the right usage of 'with' ? 'with' appears in a lot of incorrect answers to the OG SC Questions. Would really like to know when can usage of 'with' be right?

Regards,
Sachin
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2013, 08:06
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The og says there is a idiom error , I cant find it.

Any help on this missing idiom?
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2013, 21:19
(D) is wrong for its own reasons

The results .... are evident, with a 5 increase after falling over last two years.

This changes the intended meaning whereby the non-essential modifier wants to tell more about the profit
analyses and not the results.

Per (D). it says

The results,with a 5 percent increase after falling over last two years,are evident .

Which is wrong

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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2014, 08:03
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen



What does "it" refer to, in A and B? The profits? That's plural... So A/B gone.

C) makes sense

D) "with a" doesn't make sense, the rest does but this is enough to eliminate D, since we already have C

E) makes the same mistake as D, so we go with C.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 11 Feb 2014, 02:37
FuzzyBuzzard wrote:
Jump up...

After reviewing this topic and also other topics about the same question, I didn't find an answer to my question:
Why is it OK to use present participant ("falling")?
I have expected it to be "had fallen", since it happened 2 years ago and after it the profits got better ("increased), or in other words:
1st action (Past Perfect) ---> 2nd action (Past Simple) ---> PRESENT.

Thank you.

EDIT: :wall people just answer the original SC question, without even looking at the latest posts and what was asked in them!


I was also wondering the same thing and I came to this conclusion:

Verbs ending with '-ing' are flexible in that they can serve as modifiers and can assume the tense of the main verb of the clause.

To rephrase it: 'Profits, after falling the last two years, have increased.'

Because 'falling' modifies 'Profits' -- which 'have increased' -- 'falling' also assumes a past tense.

Makes sense?
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 17 Apr 2014, 10:09
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen


My question is why is D or E not correct and C correct - is it because of the use of with in choices D and E or do they contain any additional error.
The only difference between C and D is the usage of with and which.
Can someone please guide on the usage of these words.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 19 Apr 2014, 20:57
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akhil911 wrote:
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
c. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen


My question is why is D or E not correct and C correct - is it because of the use of with in choices D and E or do they contain any additional error.
The only difference between C and D is the usage of with and which.
Can someone please guide on the usage of these words.


Dear Akhil,
Thank you for your query. :)
You are correct. Structurally speaking, the difference between C and D is the difference between their respective uses of “which” and “with”. However, logically speaking, choice C is any day a lot clearer in conveying the intended meaning of the author than either choice D or E is. Let’s see why:

In choice D or E, it is not clear exactly how the prepositional phrase starting with “with” relates back to the sentence. Now, the whole phrase starting with “with” is a prepositional phrase, which can modify either a noun or a verb. Accordingly, the two possible things that could be modified with this modifier are (ref: underlined sections) :

a. The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits…
or
b. The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits

Now, the context of the sentence dictates that the “with” phrase modify “profits” as, logically speaking, the profits have increased after falling for two years. So let’s test whether this meaning comes across clearly with the “with” modifiers :

(D) The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.
(E) The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen over the last two years.

Now, do you think that the “with” modifiers in the above two sentences clearly refer back to the profits?! The answer is NO! This is because these phrases could be deemed as modifying the action in the previous clause. In other words, it could be taken to suggest that:

The results are evident because of a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.


The above meaning makes logical sense. However, is this sense compatible with the intended meaning of the author? The answer is NO! Also, besides the fact that choices D and E form rather awkward sentences, in the “with” modifying phrases, we are just told about a five percent increase, but we are not told exactly what entity has increased during the first three months of this year. The same goes for the “falling” bit. We do not know exactly what fell over the last two years.

Accordingly, it makes more sense to use “which” here. This is because “which” is typically used to convey extra-information about the noun preceding it. In the correct choice, “which” unambiguously refers back to “profits”. A simple example of the same usage is explained below:

The green shoes, which I tried on, are designed by the famous shoe designer Romano Ray.


In the above sentence, the noun “shoes” is already described as “green” in color. Therefore, the “which” clause- which I tried on- gives us extra information about the shoes.

To solidify your understanding of the topic and to learn the nuances of the same, please visit our in-depth article on the subject: noun-modifiers-can-modify-slightly-far-away-noun-135868.html

Please also revise the concept of “Types of modifier” if you are an e-GMATer.

Hope the above discussion helps! :)

Regards,

Neeti.
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 08 May 2014, 18:03
Hi -- Can someone please explain why the verbs are incorrect in A? Why is it incorrect that both are in past tense? Doesn't it make complete sense that the profits increased AFTER they fell?

Description says that having two tenses in the past is incorrect?

Also, if C said -- "profits have increased after they fell" -- would that still be correct?
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 13 May 2014, 20:32
Couple of question:
1. I have question regarding the 'tense' used in A & B. Please find below choice by eliminating the pronoun error. please let me know if they are correct.

a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling


2. Question regarding 'with'
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen
In both cases 'with' is incorrect.
Is 'with' always incorrect to start a modifier ? Or can 'with' used to start modifier is any case ? Is there any example that shows correct usage of 'with' ?

I will offer kudos to every satisfactory answer :lol:
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 19 May 2014, 02:20
russ9 wrote:
Hi -- Can someone please explain why the verbs are incorrect in A? Why is it incorrect that both are in past tense? Doesn't it make complete sense that the profits increased AFTER they fell?

Description says that having two tenses in the past is incorrect?

Also, if C said -- "profits have increased after they fell" -- would that still be correct?








Hi russ9,
Let's discuss your questions one by one:


Can someone please explain why the verbs are incorrect in A? Why is it incorrect that both are in past tense? Doesn't it make complete sense that the profits increased AFTER they fell?



I think it’s incorrect to say that both the verbs are incorrect in option A. Let’s discuss the sentence in detail to find out more:

SENTENCE

• The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits,
o which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.


MEANING

• So, this sentence states a fact from the present that certain results are evident in the company’s profits.
• The profits have increased five percent during the first three months of this year.
o This happened after the profits fell over the last two years.


Now, there are two things about the increase in the profits that are worth discussing here:
1. The increase happened over a period of 3 months.
2. The effect of this increase in the profits is still present. (The results…. are evident in its profits)

Since the increase is a continuous event that has happened over a duration of time it can’t be represented using the simple past tense. Either we need to use the present perfect tense of the past perfect tense.
Also, since the effect of these increases is visible in the present time, it can’t be represented using the past perfect tense.

So, the correct tense to be used here is the present perfect tense.


Note that, it makes perfect sense to say that the profits increased after they fell, but in the context of this sentence this is incorrect, as explained above.




Description says that having two tenses in the past is incorrect?

I didn’t exactly get your doubt here, but there can be instances where both the verbs of the sentence can be in the past tense. However, that is not the case here.
Also, when there are two or more than two events that happened at different points of time in the past then the recommended way is to do the sequencing of the events.

I had finished my homework when Ross came to meet me. (Homework was finished before Ross came)


The chief guest had left before the party started. (Chief guest left then the party started)

In both the above sentences, one of the events happened before the other.



Also, if C said -- "profits have increased after they fell" -- would that still be correct?

Yes, since the falling of the profits is an action that happened in the past, it’s correct to describe this action using the simple past tense.





Hope this helps!
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 19 May 2014, 02:56
umeshpatil wrote:
Couple of question:
1. I have question regarding the 'tense' used in A & B. Please find below choice by eliminating the pronoun error. please let me know if they are correct.

a. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
b. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling


2. Question regarding 'with'
d. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
e. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen
In both cases 'with' is incorrect.
Is 'with' always incorrect to start a modifier ? Or can 'with' used to start modifier is any case ? Is there any example that shows correct usage of 'with' ?

I will offer kudos to every satisfactory answer :lol:





Hi umeshpatil,


I have already answered your first question in my reply to russ9’s post. You can find it on the same page, right next to your post:


Regarding question number 2, I will say that a modifier can be started with ‘with’. Let’s take a look at a couple of official examples:

OFFICIAL EXAMPLE I

• Diabetes, together with its serious complications, ranks as the nation’s third leading cause of death, surpassed only by heart disease and cancer.

In this sentence, the modifier doesn't exactly start with 'with', but still it serves the purpose. If a modifier can start with 'together with', it can also start with 'with'. Right?

OFFICIAL EXAMPLE II

• The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.





Hope this helps! :)
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are [#permalink] New post 13 Sep 2014, 02:41
I chose the correct answer (C) solely based on the use of "V-ing" after "after". Since two verbs (increase and fall) clarify the same subject "profits" --> if "after" is used, it should be followed by "V-ing" form of the verb denoting the prior action (which is "fall" in this sentence).

E.g. After discussing all other issues with Lana, I have changed my mind.

However, I'm not sure if I can rely on this reason to pick up the correct answer in other similar situation. Any suggestion?
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Re: The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are   [#permalink] 13 Sep 2014, 02:41
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