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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may

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New post 25 Jul 2006, 15:13
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
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New post 25 Jul 2006, 15:36
karlfurt wrote:
I thought the correct idiom would be "as long as" and not "so long as".

Didn't know it exists. Seems I am alone to wonder about this point... :?


I know it is D, the messages have been posted for months now. The point was about "so long as".

I know the idiom as long as, but not so long as. Can someone give some explanation about this point.
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New post 25 Jul 2006, 22:23
Clear winner D.

IMO D is the only option that gives a clear meaning of the sentence.
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New post 06 Dec 2011, 11:29
Can someone please elaborate why E is grammatically wrong?
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New post 15 Jan 2012, 18:55
Is (d) not changing the meaning of the sentence. My understanding was "all students have to pay the money"?.
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New post 14 Oct 2012, 22:29
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"universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities"

it sounds like the universities are collecting both fees and objections together - collecting fees with objections, like collecting dolls with special dresses. But that doesn't make any sense, right?

So I scanned down to see what my other options are. "universities may collect student activity fees even..."
A) with objections
B/C) if they (have objections / object)
D) from students who object
E) though students have an objection

A just repeats the original - eliminate.

B and C use the pronoun "they" so I've got to scan back and see whether "students" (the logical antecedent) is in the sentence. It's not, so "they" has no antecedent (ie, noun to which "they" refers). Eliminate B and C.

"student" isn't in possessive form, so it's not possessive poison, but "student" is an adjective here. "Student activity fees" - the noun is "fees" and "student" is just describing the type of fee. So you still couldn't use even a singular pronoun to refer to the word "student" because "student" isn't a noun in the original sentence.

a pronoun has to work both structurally and logically. If you use a subject pronoun in a later clause, then you would structurally expect the noun antecedent to be the subject of an earlier clause. If the pronoun points to one noun structurally but logically it points to a different one, that's ambiguous - and therefore wrong.

So let's look at B: "universities may collect student activity fees even if they have objections to particular activities..." In this part, "they" is a subject pronoun, so the structural antecedent is "universities" - but logically that doesn't make sense. Logically, "they" should refer to students who object to the activities (and that noun is not even in the sentence!). So that's a mismatch and B is wrong.

E has multiple problems. This opening bit that we've been looking at changes the meaning: instead of saying "I can collect money from everyone, even from those students who object," it's saying "I can collect money even though (all) students object." The word "but" later in the sentence also changes the intent - the stuff after the comma is supposed to indicate the rule that the universities have to follow in order to collect money from everyone. The word "but" introduces a contrast, which isn't the right meaning. There are other problems with this one, but that's enough to eliminate!

That leaves us with D.
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New post 22 Oct 2012, 04:26
D is the best choice. I went for it directly after just seeing "from" being used
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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New post 07 Aug 2014, 09:46
Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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New post 07 Aug 2014, 09:51
Hi Puneet

I thank you for your wonderful explanation. I don't know how but i started to think why should "they" referring to universities be illogical ?

Universities are collecting money from students even though university is objecting to certain type of student activities(due to unknown reasons). Can you please help me why my explanation is illogical(as no one even mentioned it :)). So I think B is also a contender for correct choice.

Hope for a reply.


PUNEETSCHDV wrote:
"universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities"

it sounds like the universities are collecting both fees and objections together - collecting fees with objections, like collecting dolls with special dresses. But that doesn't make any sense, right?

So I scanned down to see what my other options are. "universities may collect student activity fees even..."
A) with objections
B/C) if they (have objections / object)
D) from students who object
E) though students have an objection

A just repeats the original - eliminate.

B and C use the pronoun "they" so I've got to scan back and see whether "students" (the logical antecedent) is in the sentence. It's not, so "they" has no antecedent (ie, noun to which "they" refers). Eliminate B and C.

"student" isn't in possessive form, so it's not possessive poison, but "student" is an adjective here. "Student activity fees" - the noun is "fees" and "student" is just describing the type of fee. So you still couldn't use even a singular pronoun to refer to the word "student" because "student" isn't a noun in the original sentence.

a pronoun has to work both structurally and logically. If you use a subject pronoun in a later clause, then you would structurally expect the noun antecedent to be the subject of an earlier clause. If the pronoun points to one noun structurally but logically it points to a different one, that's ambiguous - and therefore wrong.

So let's look at B: "universities may collect student activity fees even if they have objections to particular activities..." In this part, "they" is a subject pronoun, so the structural antecedent is "universities" - but logically that doesn't make sense. Logically, "they" should refer to students who object to the activities (and that noun is not even in the sentence!). So that's a mismatch and B is wrong.

E has multiple problems. This opening bit that we've been looking at changes the meaning: instead of saying "I can collect money from everyone, even from those students who object," it's saying "I can collect money even though (all) students object." The word "but" later in the sentence also changes the intent - the stuff after the comma is supposed to indicate the rule that the universities have to follow in order to collect money from everyone. The word "but" introduces a contrast, which isn't the right meaning. There are other problems with this one, but that's enough to eliminate!

That leaves us with D.
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New post 19 Aug 2014, 01:33
one of the most beautiful questions on ogs. This question give us the way gmat make sc question. this question is important because it is basic and hard.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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New post 19 Aug 2014, 07:45
Isn't "groups given money" incorrect?? It sounded awkward to me.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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New post 21 Oct 2015, 19:39
Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

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New post 22 Oct 2015, 04:21
though I can go to D, I do not know the meaning role "with+noun" play for the main clause.

in the pattern,

with+noun+main clause

of course, I know that with+noun work as an adverb of main clause. but I do not know which meaning this adverb shows

for example when clause works as an adverb to show time of main clause. This is very clear.

what meaning relation with the main clause dose "with+noun" show

pls, help

Thank you
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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New post 26 Apr 2016, 05:36
Got this one wrong ... Experts please explain why option E is wrong ? Please mention the source as well ...
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New post 28 Apr 2016, 06:15
kimmyg wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

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I felt that we have huge transition in terms of meaning with respect to this question,
1-->universities may collect fee even with students objection\\
it means that if there are 100 students and 30 are objecting---money should be collected from all 100 irrespective of their revolt

2-->universities may collect fee even from students who object to particular activities\\
it means that 70 have already paid while 30 were not paying and so university may collect fee from these 30 aswell.

I am not objecting the OA as it is official but I was between A and E for these reasons. I choose E and not D

Experts please explain. Can we give over meaning for the sake of grammar?? :roll: :cry:
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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New post 29 Apr 2016, 11:25
RatneshS wrote:
kimmyg wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

Official Guide 12 Question

GMAT Official Guide 12

Question: 42
Page: 42
Difficulty: 600

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Video Explanations:


I felt that we have huge transition in terms of meaning with respect to this question,
1-->universities may collect fee even with students objection\\
it means that if there are 100 students and 30 are objecting---money should be collected from all 100 irrespective of their revolt

2-->universities may collect fee even from students who object to particular activities\\
it means that 70 have already paid while 30 were not paying and so university may collect fee from these 30 aswell.

I am not objecting the OA as it is official but I was between A and E for these reasons. I choose E and not D

Experts please explain. Can we give over meaning for the sake of grammar?? :roll: :cry:


Since this is an official GMAT question, the answer to your question is of course yes - especially when the original sentence conveys a meaning different from that intended.
Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may   [#permalink] 29 Apr 2016, 11:25

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