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The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride)

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HBS vs. Booth (full-ride)

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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 08:04
One more thing. Let me re-emphasize the importance of the flexible curriculum, and the ability to choose almost all your classes. This is PRICELESS. It will let you really enjoy your classes, learn, and feel that you are getting the most out of it. It really SUCKS to sit down and go through classes that provide little added value for you.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 08:47
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Okay I realize that he's going to HBS because of the clarification of the financial aid fellowships at Booth but I read this and tried to make a very simple model. Based on it there was a clear benefit to going to HBS.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 09:02
vannbj, salaries are standardized. HBS grads don't get paid more than Booth grads. The difference in salary stats comes from a) chosen career paths and b) time of survey.

eskimoroll, I read that you are married and want to do marketing. Those two things should pull towards Booth.

Based on my experience, the most important bonding experiences in B-school are drinking, traveling (party style, mostly with singles), recruiting, and sports clubs. I would expect the partying/drinking factor to be overwhelmingly important at HBS because of the age factor.

On another hand, I highly doubt you will learn to be a general manager because of the case method. A very experience manager myself, I firmly believe b-school cannot teach anybody to be a manager, that you have to learn out in the real world.

Nevertheless I am not American and have a very international profile spanning most continents. I do not want to work in the US any longer. For the branding reason I personally would go for HBS unless the difference would be in the order of 30k per year or more.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 09:17
powerka wrote:
vannbj, salaries are standardized. HBS grads don't get paid more than Booth grads. The difference in salary stats comes from a) chosen career paths and b) time of survey.

eskimoroll, I read that you are married and want to do marketing. Those two things should pull towards Booth.

Based on my experience, the most important bonding experiences in B-school are drinking, traveling (party style, mostly with singles), recruiting, and sports clubs. I would expect the partying/drinking factor to be overwhelmingly important at HBS because of the age factor.

On another hand, I highly doubt you will learn to be a general manager because of the case method. A very experience manager myself, I firmly believe b-school cannot teach anybody to be a manager, that you have to learn out in the real world.

Nevertheless I am not American and have a very international profile spanning most continents. I do not want to work in the US any longer. For the branding reason I personally would go for HBS unless the difference would be in the order of 30k per year or more.


I realize that at least the starting salaries are generally standard but two seperate studies show that HBS alumni careers progress significantly faster than Chicago alumni careers. While I'd agree that the difference in salaries comes from the chosen paths I'd also add that HBS gives more choice. Also, the time of the survey is controlled in both Businessweek's and Forbes' surveys so it's definitely not a cause of the difference.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 09:27
Vannbj, I highly doubt that HBS offers more choice than Booth beyond PE. And PE pays many many more times than most career paths. I would prefer to not go any deeper into this subject, and let the most experience gmatclubbers, those that graduated many years back, speak.

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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 10:12
powerka wrote:
vannbj, salaries are standardized. HBS grads don't get paid more than Booth grads. The difference in salary stats comes from a) chosen career paths and b) time of survey.

eskimoroll, I read that you are married and want to do marketing. Those two things should pull towards Booth.

Based on my experience, the most important bonding experiences in B-school are drinking, traveling (party style, mostly with singles), recruiting, and sports clubs. I would expect the partying/drinking factor to be overwhelmingly important at HBS because of the age factor.

On another hand, I highly doubt you will learn to be a general manager because of the case method. A very experience manager myself, I firmly believe b-school cannot teach anybody to be a manager, that you have to learn out in the real world.

Nevertheless I am not American and have a very international profile spanning most continents. I do not want to work in the US any longer. For the branding reason I personally would go for HBS unless the difference would be in the order of 30k per year or more.


Yes, the partying/drinking stuff is fun but I had more than my share of that during undergrad and the subsequent years following it. I'm looking forward to the social aspects of b-school but I'm definitely not expecting it to be spring break for two years. Yes, HBS is young but I've met many fellow admits so far around my area and they all seem to be relatively mature and respectful people that I'd enjoy working with. Granted all the people around here are from industry and are in the midwest which may skew the personality types in a certain direction. I guess I'll get a better feel at ASW.

As for learning to lead, I do think that the case method has real value in that it teaches you to look at problems from a variety of perspectives and make decisions with limited information. I'm a manager as well (albeit not very experienced like yourself) and while I'm learning to be a better leader in a corporate setting, I am looking to learn how to lead when I'm not in my comfort zone (my company, my function, my categories). With that said, I absolutely agree that there is a limit on what you can learn in a classroom discussion vs. actually experiencing it in real life.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 10:17
vannbj wrote:

I realize that at least the starting salaries are generally standard but two seperate studies show that HBS alumni careers progress significantly faster than Chicago alumni careers. While I'd agree that the difference in salaries comes from the chosen paths I'd also add that HBS gives more choice. Also, the time of the survey is controlled in both Businessweek's and Forbes' surveys so it's definitely not a cause of the difference.


Do you think that it might be because of selection bias? HBS has typically attracted extremely driven and talented individuals and perhaps as a class, they are personalities that on average tend to be able to climb corporate ladders better than most. I have no doubt that other schools all have equally talented and driven individuals who have achieved amazing things but perhaps it speaks to the types of people that these schools are able to attract. I don't discount that Harvard's brand and network do mean a great deal, but I'm always a bit wary of studies like these that cast such a broad net.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 10:54
eskimoroll wrote:
vannbj wrote:

I realize that at least the starting salaries are generally standard but two seperate studies show that HBS alumni careers progress significantly faster than Chicago alumni careers. While I'd agree that the difference in salaries comes from the chosen paths I'd also add that HBS gives more choice. Also, the time of the survey is controlled in both Businessweek's and Forbes' surveys so it's definitely not a cause of the difference.


Do you think that it might be because of selection bias? HBS has typically attracted extremely driven and talented individuals and perhaps as a class, they are personalities that on average tend to be able to climb corporate ladders better than most. I have no doubt that other schools all have equally talented and driven individuals who have achieved amazing things but perhaps it speaks to the types of people that these schools are able to attract. I don't discount that Harvard's brand and network do mean a great deal, but I'm always a bit wary of studies like these that cast such a broad net.


I assume the inputs (students) to be relatively homogeneous across the ultra elite schools (not homogeneous within the schools because every school’s pretty diverse). I don’t know though. You raise a good point. Maybe it is a little the type of person that enters. Maybe it is the brand and network. But I had another cause rattling in my head. I think that the curriculum makes HBS very very polished public speakers and enables them to think and lead large groups on their feet in concise ways. I’m almost certain that helps them get promoted. That’s speculation though.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 11:03
vannbj wrote:
eskimoroll wrote:
vannbj wrote:

I realize that at least the starting salaries are generally standard but two seperate studies show that HBS alumni careers progress significantly faster than Chicago alumni careers. While I'd agree that the difference in salaries comes from the chosen paths I'd also add that HBS gives more choice. Also, the time of the survey is controlled in both Businessweek's and Forbes' surveys so it's definitely not a cause of the difference.


Do you think that it might be because of selection bias? HBS has typically attracted extremely driven and talented individuals and perhaps as a class, they are personalities that on average tend to be able to climb corporate ladders better than most. I have no doubt that other schools all have equally talented and driven individuals who have achieved amazing things but perhaps it speaks to the types of people that these schools are able to attract. I don't discount that Harvard's brand and network do mean a great deal, but I'm always a bit wary of studies like these that cast such a broad net.


I assume the inputs (students) to be relatively homogeneous across the ultra elite schools (not homogeneous within the schools because every school’s pretty diverse). I don’t know though. You raise a good point. Maybe it is a little the type of person that enters. Maybe it is the brand and network. But I had another cause rattling in my head. I think that the curriculum makes HBS very very polished public speakers and enables them to think and lead large groups on their feet in concise ways. I’m almost certain that helps them get promoted. That’s speculation though.


Interesting theory. If that's true, that really is a real value that comes from the case-method system. Of course, I've sat in an HBS second year class where I saw awkward students who obviously didn't prepare the case struggle to put together a coherent thought. It was uncomfortable for everyone. :oops:
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 11:11
eskimoroll wrote:
vannbj wrote:
eskimoroll wrote:
Do you think that it might be because of selection bias? HBS has typically attracted extremely driven and talented individuals and perhaps as a class, they are personalities that on average tend to be able to climb corporate ladders better than most. I have no doubt that other schools all have equally talented and driven individuals who have achieved amazing things but perhaps it speaks to the types of people that these schools are able to attract. I don't discount that Harvard's brand and network do mean a great deal, but I'm always a bit wary of studies like these that cast such a broad net.


I assume the inputs (students) to be relatively homogeneous across the ultra elite schools (not homogeneous within the schools because every school’s pretty diverse). I don’t know though. You raise a good point. Maybe it is a little the type of person that enters. Maybe it is the brand and network. But I had another cause rattling in my head. I think that the curriculum makes HBS very very polished public speakers and enables them to think and lead large groups on their feet in concise ways. I’m almost certain that helps them get promoted. That’s speculation though.


Interesting theory. If that's true, that really is a real value that comes from the case-method system. Of course, I've sat in an HBS second year class where I saw awkward students who obviously didn't prepare the case struggle to put together a coherent thought. It was uncomfortable for everyone. :oops:


They've gotta get good at pulling stuff out of their butts one way or the other. Just about every manager does this at several points in their careers. :)
Maybe they're just better at doing it by the time they graduate than others. IDK
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 12:04
In 20 years you will have made your money regardless of what school you pick. You will have had an excellent education and will most likely have 'made it'. I would want to say I went to Harvard. The flexible curriculum would need to be a hugely beneficial factor for me to go elsewhere.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 12:37
Given that you're done with apps and probably find yourself with a bit more time. It might be interesting for you to read "Ahead of the Curve" before making that decision. To be honest I just started reading it myself, so I can only repeat others' praise for it, and not my own (yet). It's a relatively short read. Just an idea.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 13:17
dalillama wrote:
Given that you're done with apps and probably find yourself with a bit more time. It might be interesting for you to read "Ahead of the Curve" before making that decision. To be honest I just started reading it myself, so I can only repeat others' praise for it, and not my own (yet). It's a relatively short read. Just an idea.


Just finished it a couple of weeks ago also. Very entertaining/insightful read.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 13:24
Rux10 wrote:
dalillama wrote:
Given that you're done with apps and probably find yourself with a bit more time. It might be interesting for you to read "Ahead of the Curve" before making that decision. To be honest I just started reading it myself, so I can only repeat others' praise for it, and not my own (yet). It's a relatively short read. Just an idea.


Just finished it a couple of weeks ago also. Very entertaining/insightful read.


What'd you like about it? What made it so insightful?
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 14:19
dalillama wrote:
Given that you're done with apps and probably find yourself with a bit more time. It might be interesting for you to read "Ahead of the Curve" before making that decision. To be honest I just started reading it myself, so I can only repeat others' praise for it, and not my own (yet). It's a relatively short read. Just an idea.


I actually read it a few weeks ago and I'm currently reading "Year One" as well. "Ahead of the Curve" was interesting but really as far as the author's negative experience, you get what you put into it. For completely valid reasons, his priority was his wife and child and for whatever reason, it doesn't seem like they really wanted to become engaged with the HBS community or partners club. I like knowing the good and bad aspects of the schools I'm considering so it was a valuable read in that respect.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 14:42
eskimoroll wrote:
dalillama wrote:
Given that you're done with apps and probably find yourself with a bit more time. It might be interesting for you to read "Ahead of the Curve" before making that decision. To be honest I just started reading it myself, so I can only repeat others' praise for it, and not my own (yet). It's a relatively short read. Just an idea.


I actually read it a few weeks ago and I'm currently reading "Year One" as well. "Ahead of the Curve" was interesting but really as far as the author's negative experience, you get what you put into it. For completely valid reasons, his priority was his wife and child and for whatever reason, it doesn't seem like they really wanted to become engaged with the HBS community or partners club. I like knowing the good and bad aspects of the schools I'm considering so it was a valuable read in that respect.


Good point. I'll keep that in mind as I read through it. Now if I could only find you the equivalent book for Booth... :-D
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 18:00
eskimoroll wrote:
I actually read it a few weeks ago and I'm currently reading "Year One" as well.


Much better book than "Ahead of Curve" in my opinion but most of the facts/experience from that book is now outdated. After all, the guy in that book was a former Bain consultant who chose to attend HBS in 1990(ish ~) only because: 1) He was tired of working in Czech and its brutal winter, 2) his alma mater Stanford rejected him...

It's a great read if you want to find out about HBS back in those days but a lot of stuff mentioned in that book (coming to class 4AM in the morning to reserve a seat on very first day of class because that will be the permanent seat for the rest of the term; ridiculous computer/printer issues; etc) no longer applies anymore.

But still, awesome book if you have time to read it (and also, if you are lucky enough to find a copy of that book since it's been out of print for years)
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 20:29
looks like HBS is pulling away in both the poll and debate!
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 20:46
Moss wrote:
looks like HBS is pulling away in both the poll and debate!


Well I think that's because I clarified that it really isn't a full-ride anymore and the price difference will probably be fairly small. In a heads up face-off with any school on these types of forums, HBS tends to come out on top simply due to the strength of its name.
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Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride) [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2011, 21:14
Think of it this way. If you are successful, the brand name of Booth or HBS will not matter in long term. Either decision you made you will think was the right decision and you will not think about it. If things do not go well, HBS brand name can bail you out more than a Booth brand name. Booth has really catapulted in ranking due to the flexible program, which even Wharton and HBS is adopting starting from 2012. Otherwise Booth is a very old fashioned finance school. If you want to go to Tech. Wharton and Stanford has a better brand name. Even Kellogg has a good presence in tech consulting.
Re: The toughest decision of my life... HBS vs Booth (full-ride)   [#permalink] 03 Feb 2011, 21:14
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