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There was great debate among Greek historians whether the

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There was great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that validated its historical importance along with its literary eminence hitherto

(A) was great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that validated

(B) had been great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that validated

C) was great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that had validated

(D) had been great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy had ever existed or had been a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that has validated

(E) had been great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that validates
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Last edited by daagh on 21 Oct 2010, 19:49, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The city of Troy [#permalink]

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New post 21 Oct 2010, 03:47
Here the choices B,D and E are taken into account because of the apt usage of 'had been'...

Had been is to be used to describe a timeline that preceeds the general/overall timeline of the sentence
(Pardon me for the gramatically incorrect sentence above :? :? could'nt express it any better)

Here E can be ruled as the last part of the sentence uses present tense ('validates').

Left out with B and D.

IMO B is better than D because of the usage of 'had been' before 'figment of fiction'. Here this usage is wrong because this unnecessarily/incorrectly introduces a third timeline.

Can the Verbal experts here point out the exact reason D is wrong if it indeed is so?

OA??

Last edited by HarishV on 21 Oct 2010, 04:40, edited 1 time in total.
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D also does not use - it - as far as I see.
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New post 21 Oct 2010, 04:31
Pkit:What a wonderful thing to point out! I am sorry I missed while I was jumbling the choices. Can I edit it? Sorry for the trouble.
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New post 21 Oct 2010, 04:44
daagh wrote:
D also does not use - it - as far as I see.


My bad daagh....i seemed to have overlooked it...have made changes to my original post for choosing B over D
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Re: The city of Troy [#permalink]

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New post 21 Oct 2010, 12:40
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Debate among Greek historians was before the discovery -> past perfect must be used. A and C are out.
whether A or B -> A||B . B and D are out.
I will highlight mistakes below.

My pick is E.

There was great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that validated its historical importance along with its literary eminence hitherto

(A) was great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that validated

(B) had been great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that validated

C) was great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that had validated

(D) had been great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy had ever existed or had been a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that has validated

(E) had been great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that validates
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Re: The city of Troy [#permalink]

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New post 21 Oct 2010, 17:16
not able to choose between A and B...OA plz
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New post 21 Oct 2010, 18:33
i go with E..it clearly defines .... IT with the troy city.... had been correctly used
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New post 21 Oct 2010, 18:52
its E.. I go with E since it clearly mentioned ' it ' --- had been correctly used.... i think its E
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New post 21 Oct 2010, 19:57
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Let us think of the rationale behind this exercise of tense usage. There are some events and let us put them in the order of chronology

1. The existence of troy –is the earliest event
2. The figment of imagination- same time as of its existence
3. The subsequent debate among the Greek- later than the previous two factors
4. The discovery of the architect – event after the debate
5. The discovery’s impact until date marked by the word - hitherto -

The first four events happened in the past and ended in the past. As per grammar and custom, the last of these four events i.e. the discovery by the architect entails a simple past while all the three earlier ones entail past perfects.

The last event of validation originated in the past and continues until date and hence needs a present perfect.

The one choice that stands all these parameters is- D

An alternate thinking is to assert that the debate by the Greeks, The city’s real existence or it being a figment of imagination were all events that happened at the same time. Even granting such a thought, those events clearly occurred before the Architect’s finding. So they will still need to be marked by past perfects.


We can not use a universal simple present for validation because we do not know whether this discovery is the final chapter in this episode. Tomorrow there may be another discovery that might damn this one. So – validates - is not appropriate

There is some doubt in the usage of -Troy ever existed or it was a figment- whether the pronoun, - it - should be mentioned. Since the subject is -the city of Troy –for both the verbs- existed or was a figment, using – it – again turns redundant.

The OA is D. I am editing the passage to mark the OA under spoiler
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Re: The city of Troy [#permalink]

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New post 21 Oct 2010, 21:46
Great question and explanations!
+1
thanks

I must admit I am wrong, but is it wrong that A and B must be parallel in whether A or B construction?
btw what is the source of the question?
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New post 21 Oct 2010, 22:35
@Pkit: Thank you for your kind words. As I have already pointed out, all my exercises are my personal creations, taking some common passages and building a relevant GMAT error into it for the sake of training my students.

To answer you query reg: maintenance of parallelism, I do agree that they must be parallel in essence, not necessarily verbatim, provided what is missing is elliptically understood. Say for instance,

I do not know whether I should sing or dance.

Here the phrase -I should - in the second part is understood and therefore the sentence is correct, even though the phrase is not mentioned in the passage.
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New post 21 Oct 2010, 23:05
daagh wrote:
@Pkit: Thank you for your kind words. As I have already pointed out, all my exercises are my personal creations, taking some common passages and building a relevant GMAT error into it for the sake of training my students.

To answer you query reg: maintenance of parallelism, I do agree that they must be parallel in essence, not necessarily verbatim, provided what is missing is elliptically understood. Say for instance,

I do not know whether I should sing or dance.

Here the phrase -I should - in the second part is understood and therefore the sentence is correct, even though the phrase is not mentioned in the passage.


Thanks - I will remember this, I am sometimes really confused with elliptical structures.
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Re: There was great debate among Greek historians whether the [#permalink]

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There was great debate among Greek historians whether the [#permalink]

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New post 26 Sep 2015, 09:43
Great debate happened before and until the discovery.
so past perfect tense is needed here.


Given sentence uses simple past tense and therefore is an incorrect choice.
A, and C contain the same error.


Options also contain whether X or Y, where X and Y are parallel.
which of these two is correct and why?
    Whether the city of Troy ever existed or was a figment of fiction,
    or
    Whether the city of Troy ever existed or it was a figment of fiction


C is wrong since past perfect tense is used wrongly to depict that discovery is the earlier one of the two past events.

E is incorrect since present tense verb validates gives a wrong meaning as the action took place in the past.

left with B and D.

I chose B over D.
Can you explain how can we use
  • present perfect tense has validated for discovery and
  • past perfect tense for whether x or y idiom.

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There was great debate among Greek historians whether the [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2015, 21:47
As per the meaning of the sentence - three events - a. debate b. city existence c.figment of fiction - happend before the discovery (the usage of until also helps to understand this bit).

The effect of the discovery is still there. Action in the past and effect in the present. (So present perfect).
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There was great debate among Greek historians whether the [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2015, 03:41
(D) had been great debate among Greek historians whether the city of Troy had ever existed or had been a figment of fiction, until the noted archaeologist Schliemann discovered in Turkey a site that many believe to be the ancient city of Troy, a discovery that has validated

I can't make myself agree with the OA choice "D"as the sentence, discovery that has validated is in present participle form whereas the sentence following past participle form...

can anyone please explain how the sentence showing correct use of tense...
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Re: There was great debate among Greek historians whether the [#permalink]

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"That has validated" is absolutely correct in "D" because at the end of the sentence "hitherto" is mentioned which implies "till date". Hence although the discovery was made in the past it is applicable even now. This is an example of past action coming into present. Hence, "has" is perfect out here.

Hope this helps.
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Re: There was great debate among Greek historians whether the [#permalink]

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New post 28 Dec 2015, 04:27
Since the sentence uses the word 'until', it is understood that all events happened before the discovery. Should we need to use past perfect tense in this case also? If not then A is correct?
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Re: There was great debate among Greek historians whether the [#permalink]

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New post 28 Dec 2015, 11:19
The debate was already happening in the past and the existence of Troy on it being a figment of fiction was even before that, should we not use the "had had" form then?
Re: There was great debate among Greek historians whether the   [#permalink] 28 Dec 2015, 11:19

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