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This is one of the examples presented in one of the e-gmat

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This is one of the examples presented in one of the e-gmat [#permalink] New post 15 May 2012, 14:47
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This is one of the examples presented in one of the e-gmat SC modules
"While some propose to combat widespread illegal copying of computer programs by attempting to change people's attitude toward piracy, others suggest the reduction of software prices to decrease the incentive for pirating, and still others call for the prosecution of people who copy software illegally"
clause 1[While some propose to combat widespread illegal copying of computer programs by attempting to change people's attitude toward piracy]
clause 2 [others suggest the reduction of software prices to decrease the incentive for pirating]
clause 3 [and still others call for the prosecution of people]
clause 4 [who copy software illegally]

Why is it that in clause 1 and 2 the bossy verbs "Propose" and "Suggest" are not followed by THAT?... "While some propose that to combat.." or others suggest that the reduction

Thanks for any clarification of when to use subjunctive mood
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 03:24
why don't you give us the complete question and answer choices? That way we will be in a better position to comment on it.
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 04:07
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What decide the use of a command or bossy word or the timing of the subjunctive mood are the contexts and persons who say the so called bossy words If my MD proposes, it is a command. If the RBI governor suggests, it a law for the banks. If Obama says something it, is command at least for the Democrats These people in high places don’t have to instruct, direct or even drive people to do them. At the same time a proposal by a boy to a girl will not be mostly a command. A suggestion by me may not be a gospel for my son, and he may reject it just because I say it. See how frivolous this bossy thing is
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 06:03
there are no answer choices, this was just an example they used to illustrate breaking a sentence into clauses. However, I noticed that there were some bossy verbs and no THAT that followed, so thought I would get some clarification...

I just want to know exactly when THAT has to follow these bossy verbs, I was under the assumption that whenever I see a bossy verb I have to automatically put THAT or INFINITIVE TO afterwards... Clearly, there are instances when this does not apply, and I am having a difficult time analyzing when to do so
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 07:03
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Let me explain the subjunctive mood usage. First thing certain verbs, adjectives and nouns can be part of subjunctive mood.

As far as I see, one can think of many instances of command subjunctive verbs, nouns and adjectives as follows;.
Verbs: Advice, advocate, ask, arrange, better, counsel, demand, desire, dictate direct, insist, instruct, intend, order, prey, prefer, plead, propose. Recommend, request, require, suggest, urge
Adjectives: Desirable, Advisable, Essential, Fundamental, Fitting, Imperative, Important, Necessary, Preferable, Urgent Vital
Nouns: Directive, instruction, intention, suggestion

The crux is not the word per se but the intention of command. But all of them need not be used in the subjunctive mood.

1, However when you use them in the subjunctive mood , you have to ensure whether there is any real intention to boss over or command. If the intention is not to boss over, then the subjunctive mood usage will not be appropiraite. --- Example: The General directed concerned officials

2. If a command situation does exist in spirit, even if not in letter, then the second requirement of using the connector word that can be applied.


Example: The general ordered concerened officials that

3. After fulfilling these two conditions, we can move to the third condition. Now we have to use the basic form or the root form or the imperative form as they are variously called to complete the commnd subjunctive.
Example: The general ordered concerned officials that all soldiers with big bellies be expelled from service forthwith.

Now there is another way to avoid such a compacted use, if you so feel. You may use an infinitieve sentence using the same command word but with out embarking on the subjunctive

The general ordered the concerned officials to expel all soldiers with big bellies

Some more common examples

1. Wrong: The public are demanding that a crematorium should be constructed at the traffic junction.
. Correct: The public are demanding that a crematorium be constructed at the traffic junction.
2. Incorrect: The Committee recommended that the manager is dismissed.
Correct: The Committee recommended that the manager be dismissed

A couple of GMAT examples

1. known to defendants so they can attempt to rebut the testimony, but the Constitution explicitly requires only that the defendant have the opportunity to confront an accuser in court.

(A) That the identities of all prosecution witnesses are made known to defendants so they can attempt to rebut
(B) That the identities of all prosecution witnesses be made known to defendants so that they can attempt to rebut
(C) That the defendants should know the identities of all prosecution witnesses so they can attempt a rebuttal of
(D) The identities of all prosecution witnesses should be made known to defendants so they can attempt rebutting
(E) Making known to defendants the identities of all prosecution witnesses so that they can attempt to rebut

2. Catherine MacKinnon has suggested, even demanded, that tort laws should be reformed to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they have no contractual relationship.

a)should be reformed to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they have no contractual relationship
b) should reform to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they are not legally married
c) reform so as to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they have no contractual relationship
d) be reformed to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they have no contractual relationship
e) be reformed in order to protect women with claims against men with whom they have no contractual relationship of harassment

Can you please attempt to solve the GMAT topics?
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 07:52
1. known to defendants so they can attempt to rebut the testimony, but the Constitution explicitly requires only that the defendant have the opportunity to confront an accuser in court.

(A) That the identities of all prosecution witnesses are made known to defendants so they can attempt to rebut
(B) That the identities of all prosecution witnesses be made known to defendants so that they can attempt to rebut
(C) That the defendants should know the identities of all prosecution witnesses so they can attempt a rebuttal of
(D) The identities of all prosecution witnesses should be made known to defendants so they can attempt rebutting
(E) Making known to defendants the identities of all prosecution witnesses so that they can attempt to rebut


am not sure I understand the context of number 1 as A is different than original sentence?

2. Catherine MacKinnon has suggested, even demanded, that tort laws should be reformed to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they have no contractual relationship.

a)should be reformed to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they have no contractual relationship
b) should reform to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they are not legally married
c) reform so as to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they have no contractual relationship
d) be reformed to protect women with claims of harassment against men with whom they have no contractual relationship
e) be reformed in order to protect women with claims against men with whom they have no contractual relationship of harassment

I picked D? is that right?
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 19:14
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This is the correct version. I hope you can pick up from there. After so much of elaboration, I think you should be able handle subjunctive mood usage fairly easily. Good luck.

Judicial rules in many states require that the identities of all prosecution witnesses are made known to defendants so they can attempt to rebut the testimony, but the Constitution explicitly requires only that the defendant have the opportunity to confront an accuser in court.

(A) that the identities of all prosecution witnesses are made known to defendants so they can attempt to rebut
(B) that the identities of all prosecution witnesses be made known to defendants so that they can attempt to rebut
(C) that the defendants should know the identities of all prosecution witnesses so they can attempt a rebuttal of
(D) the identities of all prosecution witnesses should be made known to defendants so they can attempt rebutting
(E) making known to defendants the identities of all prosecution witnesses so that they can attempt to rebut
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 19:35
Is it true that it is grammatically incorrect to use 'should' in a sentence containing a command subjunctive?
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 20:08
macjas wrote:
Is it true that it is grammatically incorrect to use 'should' in a sentence containing a command subjunctive?
Yes, it infuses redundancy. The reason is Command subjunctive would inherently have 'should' (and many time 'must') in itself.
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 20:49
Judicial rules in many states require that the identities of all prosecution witnesses are made known to defendants so they can attempt to rebut the testimony, but the Constitution explicitly requires only that the defendant have the opportunity to confront an accuser in court.

(A) that the identities of all prosecution witnesses are made known to defendants so they can attempt to rebut
(B) that the identities of all prosecution witnesses be made known to defendants so that they can attempt to rebut
(C) that the defendants should know the identities of all prosecution witnesses so they can attempt a rebuttal of
(D) the identities of all prosecution witnesses should be made known to defendants so they can attempt rebutting
(E) making known to defendants the identities of all prosecution witnesses so that they can attempt to rebut

is B the correct answer?
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Re: Subjunctive example? [#permalink] New post 16 May 2012, 21:10
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@shawndx

yes.that is the one wih the imperative form of the verb
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Re: Subjunctive example?   [#permalink] 16 May 2012, 21:10
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This is one of the examples presented in one of the e-gmat

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