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TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING

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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 23 Jan 2013, 19:25
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egmat wrote:
Hi folks,

Found an interesting question that tests the knowledge of this topic here. Try it out and post your analysis. :)

Scientists claim that the discovery of the first authenticated mammal bones in amber could provide important clues of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies.

A: of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies

B: in the determination of how and when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals

C: to determine how mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies and when they did

D: for determining when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals and how they were

E: for determining how and when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies



good question..!

IMO OA :E
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 24 Jan 2013, 05:37
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Meaning :- scientists claim that a discovery provides clues which can help in determining
a. how mamals colonized WI
b. when mamals colonized WI

Error Analysis :- 'Clues of determining' is not the correct idiom. Correct idiom should be 'Clues for' (what are the clue for? Clues are for determining )

POE
A. explained
B. Clues in the determination of....not correct
C. Clues to determine...the intention of the clues was not to determine
D. The tense of the sentence is not correct. Since the action completed in the past we can use simple past tense.
E. Correct, uses for and simple past tense.

IMO :- E
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 25 Jan 2013, 05:59
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tcsing wrote:
I am a little confused by 1 OG question though: OG 13 Q128.

Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.
A. that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved
B. that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
C. suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolving
D. to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved
E. to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved

I chose C but the OA is E. Wouldn't "to suggest" in E imply that the intent of finding the evidence is to suggest that the elephant is etc etc? And the intention is not implicit in the original sentence?

Thank you!


Hi there,

The basis of your confudion is very valid. It is not clear from the original sentence that the embryologists found the evidence with the intent or purpose of suggesting something. What is clear from the sentence is that the evidence suggests that elephant has descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk evolved as a kind of snorkel.

Choice C: suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolving: Incorrect.
1. Use of past perfect tense "had evolved" is incorrect. Elephants still are descendants of aquatic animal. The original sentence is presenting a general fact.
2. Per this choice, elephant descended "with its trunk" that was evolving as a snorkel. This distorts the intended meaning.

Choice E: to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved: Correct. This sentence is grammatically and logically correct. Parallelism is maintained here, and the verb tense is also correct. Now that we get our correct sentence with et correct answer choice, it kind of makes sense to say that embryologists have found evidence "to suggest" because they probably had an idea that this was a possibility. So they did some research in the firled and purpposely came up with the evidence to substantiate the possibility.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 27 Jan 2013, 02:52
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Quote:
Scientists claim that the discovery of the first authenticated mammal bones in amber could provide important clues of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies.

A: of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies
B: in the determination of how and when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals
C: to determine how mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies and when they did
D: for determining when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals and how they were
E: for determining how and when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies


It should be E..
Between to +verb vs for +verb+ing, I eliminate A, B, C.
Between D & E, I would select simple and smart correct answer E. D is so verbose and awkward.
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 27 Jan 2013, 03:08
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A very nice discussion folks,
I have collected all the questions and answers together. Find the post below.
ten-practice-questions-on-to-verb-vs-for-verb-ing-146392.html

consider +kudo if you like this post :-D
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 28 Jan 2013, 01:35
The answer should be E because the discovery could provide clues 'for' determining i.e. 'what for' aspect.
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 28 Jan 2013, 02:17
rajhere wrote:
The answer should be E because the discovery could provide clues 'for' determining i.e. 'what for' aspect.


@rajhere, You are the one who understood e-gmat session thoroughly. This article talks the same :lol:

Why D is not correct answer according to you then?

About the answers, D & E both explains 'what for' aspect, but D tries to elongate the sentence.
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2013, 12:48
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Hi everyone,

Thanks for posting your analysis of this question. Here is the detailed solution for this one.

Scientists claim that the discovery of the first authenticated mammal bones in amber could provide important clues of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies.

Meaning Analysis:

The sentence talks about a scientific discovery. Scientists found the first authenticated mammals bones in amber that could provide clues that would help in determining:
A. How mammals colonized the islands of West Indies, and
B. when they did so

Error Analysis:

1. "clues of determining" is an incorrect expression. Per the context of the sentence, the correct expression should be "clues for determining".

2. "in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies" is very awkward. It fails to communicate the intended meaning in a prices and clear manner.

PoE:

A: of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies: Incorrect for the reasons stated above.

B: in the determination of how and when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals: Incorrect.
1. "In the determination" is not what we need here.
2. The passive voice construction makes the choice wordy.

C: to determine how mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies and when they did: Incorrect.
1. "To determine" is incorrect because it was not the intention of the clues to determine how and when mammals colonized West Indies.
2. This choice is not written in the most concise manner.

D: for determining when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals and how they were: Incorrect.
1. The passive voice construction makes the choice wordy.
2. Use if "were" is incorrect. It should be "did". However, even after that, the construction would not have been precise.

E: for determining how and when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies: Correct.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 23 Feb 2013, 05:09
I have a doubt regarding To v/ For when both meant for ' for the purpose'.
Below is gmat prep question:

Responding to the public’s fascination with-and sometimes undue alarm over-possible threats
from asteroids, a scale developed by astronomers rates the likelihood that a particular asteroid or comet may collide with Earth.

A. a scale developed by astronomers rates the likelihood that a particular asteroid or comet may
B. a scale that astronomers have developed rates how likely it is for a particular asteroid or comet to
modifying astonomers so a, B out
C. astronomers have developed a scale to rate how likely a particular asteroid or comet will be to
D. astronomers have developed a scale for rating the likelihood that a particular asteroid or comet will
E. astronomers have developed a scale that rates the likelihood of a particular asteroid or comet that may
its not the likely hood of comet but the likely hood of hitting also likely + may in same sentence

Now comparing C and D
C. astronomers have developed a scale to rate how likely a particular asteroid or comet will be to
D. astronomers have developed a scale for rating the likelihood that a particular asteroid or comet will

I am not sure of OA, though some forums claim it to be C.

in C "likely X will be to" is it correct.
In D is 'for rating ' - wrong ;
In D is 'likelihood that ' is correct..

help me understanding the construction..
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 01 Apr 2013, 09:44
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Rec'd a PM regarding this topic. Its another question that uses the "to verb" vs "for verb-ing" concept. Posting my analysis on forum for benefit of all. :)

Quote:
The Skill and precision of the ancient people of the American SouthWest, in measuring the movements of the Sun and the moon is evidenced not only at Chaco canyon , but also at number of other sites.


A. -----
B. in measuring the movements of sun and moon are evidenced not only at
C. in measuring the movements of sun and moon is evidenced at not only
D. to measure the movements of sun and moon is evidenced at not only
E. to measure the movements of sun and moon are evidenced not only at

The correct answer for this is B, while I chose E. Please help me to understand the difference between "in measuring" and "to measure".


The sentence talks about the "Skill and precision" of a group of people. Let's pick a skill, say skill in teaching a complex concept.
Now when we mention this specific skill, we are literally describing the skill. What kind of skill, skill in teaching a complex concept.
Now if I said "skill to teach a complex concept", I would be wrong since this expression will imply that the intent of "skill" i.e. "some general term skill" is to teach a complex concept.

This is exactly what is happening in the sentence above. Now consider the following two sentences:

1: James' skills in teaching complex concepts are exemplary.
2: James' skills to teaching complex concepts are exemplary. (INCORRECT - Implies that the intent of skills of James is to teach complex concepts)
3: James has developed his skills in teaching complex concepts to make sure he can be employed by leading education companies.

Notice how in sentence 1 is correct but sentence 2 is incorrect. Also notice how sentence 3 uses both "to verb" and "in verb-ing" correctly. The former is used to express intent of developing the specific skills in discussion. The latter is used to describe the skills in discussion.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Payal
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 01 Apr 2013, 13:18
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sujit2k7 wrote:
I have a doubt regarding To v/ For when both meant for ' for the purpose'.
Below is gmat prep question:

Responding to the public’s fascination with-and sometimes undue alarm over-possible threats
from asteroids, a scale developed by astronomers rates the likelihood that a particular asteroid or comet may collide with Earth.

A. a scale developed by astronomers rates the likelihood that a particular asteroid or comet may
B. a scale that astronomers have developed rates how likely it is for a particular asteroid or comet to
modifying astonomers so a, B out
C. astronomers have developed a scale to rate how likely a particular asteroid or comet will be to
D. astronomers have developed a scale for rating the likelihood that a particular asteroid or comet will
E. astronomers have developed a scale that rates the likelihood of a particular asteroid or comet that may
its not the likely hood of comet but the likely hood of hitting also likely + may in same sentence

Now comparing C and D
C. astronomers have developed a scale to rate how likely a particular asteroid or comet will be to
D. astronomers have developed a scale for rating the likelihood that a particular asteroid or comet will

I am not sure of OA, though some forums claim it to be C.

in C "likely X will be to" is it correct.
In D is 'for rating ' - wrong ;
In D is 'likelihood that ' is correct..

help me understanding the construction..


Hi Sujit,

Are you sure that this is an official question. I ask this since I am toggling between C and D (and that does not happen with official questions!!!). I do not think that "for rating" is essentially incorrect here. This is because we can very well say that Astronomers have come up with a certain scale and by the way this is what the scale does. So we can provide the description of the scale using "for verb-ing". At the same time, I would prefer going with "to rate" in choice C here since the context of the sentence renders a sense of purpose, which is best represented through to verb.

Along slightly different lines, choice D is more precise in presenting the likelihood.

So I actually doubt if this question is truly an official question. Where did you find this question - in gmat prep software?

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Payal
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 01 Apr 2013, 19:53
egmat wrote:
So I actually doubt if this question is truly an official question. Where did you find this question - in gmat prep software?

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Payal


Actually i picked this from a pdf file that contains collection of Gmat Prep problems. Might be this is not a official problem :pc

Thanks for the reply.
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 20 Jul 2013, 11:41
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egmat wrote:
Hi folks,

Found an interesting question that tests the knowledge of this topic here. Try it out and post your analysis. :)

Scientists claim that the discovery of the first authenticated mammal bones in amber could provide important clues of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies.

A: of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies

B: in the determination of how and when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals

C: to determine how mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies and when they did

D: for determining when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals and how they were

E: for determining how and when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies



I think the answer is E.
Could you please tell the OA?
Thanx. G8 article... :) :)
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 23 Jul 2013, 06:04
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Hi everyone,

He comes the explanation for this question.

Scientists claim that the discovery of the first authenticated mammal bones in amber could provide important clues of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies.

Since the meaning is easy to understand, let’s move to Error Analysis.

ERROR ANALYSIS:
1. With “provide”, we use the preposition “for”. Use of “of determining” is incorrect.
2. The discovery of bones provide clues for determining two things:
a. How the mammals colonized the islands of West Indies
b. When the mammals colonized the islands of West Indies
So we have a list here, and the entities in this list must be joined by a marker. This marker should be “and” which is missing in the sentence.

PoE:

A: of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies: Incorrect for the reasons stated above.

B: in the determination of how and when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals: Incorrect.
1. Use of “in” with provide is incorrect.
2. Passive voice makes the choice wordy.

C: to determine how mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies and when they did: Incorrect.
1. Use of “to” is incorrect.
2. The entities in the list can be written in more concise manner.

D: for determining when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals and how they were: Incorrect. Passive voice makes the choice wordy.

E: for determining how and when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies: Correct.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 17 Aug 2013, 02:44
Quote:
This article has been very helpful :) I am a little confused by 1 OG question though: OG 13 Q128.

Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.
A. that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved
B. that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
C. suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolving
D. to suggest that the elephant has descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved
E. to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved

I chose C but the OA is E. Wouldn't "to suggest" in E imply that the intent of finding the evidence is to suggest that the elephant is etc etc? And the intention is not implicit in the original sentence?

Thank you!


Hi tcsing,

You copied the whole question wrongly! Check it... Answer to correct question (from OG 13, 128) is indeed E. And yeah, in this question the correct answer has changed the meaning, but then all other answers are WRONG for clear grammatical reasons. So, after reading the options I will say, well GMAT (the almighty!) can change the meaning in some circumstances. SD (Shraddha :)) am I right in saying so?

I would say in your version of the question, A is the best option.

PS: if possible its better to modify this question here, otherwise it will create a lot of confusion for others.
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 20 Aug 2013, 08:14
TO DO is used to show the purpose of subject+verb, the subject must perform TO DO

FOR DOING is used to show the purpose of a previous verb, . the subject of the previous clause do not perform FOR DOING. other agent performs the FOR DOING

I learn gmat to take MBA. "I" perform "to take"

evidence provides support for classifying the terms. (from og)

the chambers were closed for cleaning and repair. (from og)

if we think this way, it is more easy to use to do/for doing
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 04 Oct 2013, 00:34
Hi Shraddha,

Thanks for the great article. What i gather is that intent is important when differentiating to-verb and for-verbing. in the below sentence if i ask myself what is the intention of "a sophisticated method", my answer will be "to diagnose coronary disease". So shouldn't the below sentence be "a sophisticated method TO diagnose coronary disease". Can you please explain?

Coronary angiography, a sophisticated method for diagnosing coronary disease involving the introduction of a dye into the arteries of the heart, is now administered selectively, because it uses x-rays to observe cardiac function.
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 15 Oct 2013, 10:49
BukrsGmat wrote:
egmat wrote:
So I actually doubt if this question is truly an official question. Where did you find this question - in gmat prep software?

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Payal


Actually i picked this from a pdf file that contains collection of Gmat Prep problems. Might be this is not a official problem :pc

Thanks for the reply.


Guys, I confirm. This is an official question. I saw it in my GMAT Prep (Extention pack #1) exam.
The official answer is D.

I think that the best way to approach this questions is from meaning point of view. Thus, astronomers developed the scale not to rate (they didn't want to rate anything themselves), but to respond to public's fascination.
Therefore, the usage of FOR RATING is perfectly fine; whereas, "will be to collide" sounds extremely strange even for the foreigner. I would rather prefer "... comet will collide".

Thoughts?
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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 26 Feb 2014, 06:02
egmat wrote:
tcsing wrote:
I am a little confused by 1 OG question though: OG 13 Q128.

Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.
A. that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved
B. that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
C. suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolving
D. to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved
E. to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved

I chose C but the OA is E. Wouldn't "to suggest" in E imply that the intent of finding the evidence is to suggest that the elephant is etc etc? And the intention is not implicit in the original sentence?

Thank you!


Hi there,

The basis of your confudion is very valid. It is not clear from the original sentence that the embryologists found the evidence with the intent or purpose of suggesting something. What is clear from the sentence is that the evidence suggests that elephant has descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk evolved as a kind of snorkel.

Choice C: suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolving: Incorrect.
1. Use of past perfect tense "had evolved" is incorrect. Elephants still are descendants of aquatic animal. The original sentence is presenting a general fact.
2. Per this choice, elephant descended "with its trunk" that was evolving as a snorkel. This distorts the intended meaning.

Choice E: to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved: Correct. This sentence is grammatically and logically correct. Parallelism is maintained here, and the verb tense is also correct. Now that we get our correct sentence with et correct answer choice, it kind of makes sense to say that embryologists have found evidence "to suggest" because they probably had an idea that this was a possibility. So they did some research in the firled and purpposely came up with the evidence to substantiate the possibility.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Hi,

Please explain why option A is wrong?

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Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING [#permalink] New post 06 Jun 2014, 02:06
Here is my analysis for these questions:

1) Scientists claim that the discovery of the first authenticated mammal bones in amber could provide important clues of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies.

A: of determining, in addition to how, when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies : Incorrect
of determining is not correct

B: in the determination of how and when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals : incorrect in the determination is wordy and in appropriate.

C: to determine how mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies and when they did : Incorrect
to determine is used to show the indent or purpose, here instead we need the reason what clues will provide ?
Also, sentence is presented in passive form.

D: for determining when the islands of the West Indies were colonized by mammals and how they were : Incorrect
reasons : Passive voice ; and is used to connect two independent clauses but how they were is run on sentence.

E: for determining how and when mammals colonized the islands of the West Indies . Correct, for determining answers "what for" and also its most concise sentence.


2) Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.
A. that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved -- that is redundant also, since evidence suggests two things both must mentioned after that.
B. that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving -- Run on sentence
C. suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolving --- past perfect to be used in case two past events has occurred in a sequential manner.
D. to suggest that the elephant has descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved -- present perfect tense usage is incorrect ... elephant still existing.
E. to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved - Correct because the evidence claims two things each is introduced with 'that' in the sentence.


Controversial mortgage laws passed last year state that, if at any point during the maturation period of the loan the person in whose name it is taken is not able to meet the payments, that person’s spouse will have responsibilities that include paying the balance.
a. will have responsibilities that include paying -- will have incorrect , only will is needed
b. will be responsible to pay -- to pay shows purpose where it must suggest he is responsible for what? ...
c. is responsible to pay -- wrong fails to address subjunctive form of verb
d. will be responsible for paying -- correct
e. is responsible for paying -- as explained above its wrong.

Hi Shraddha,

Please check my responses and please correct me .... if I failed to apply the concepts correctly ..
Re: TO VERB VS FOR VERB-ING   [#permalink] 06 Jun 2014, 02:06
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