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DrSatisfaction I would love to hear more about it here on the general forum. In particular could you share about the MBA program, the student, body, the placement record and its brand perception within china.
My understanding is that there is a number of international students there and supposedly lack of Mandarin skills is not an issue for the second year classes. However, probably will be tough to get along with anyone... _________________
Just curious, why did you apply and end up not going there? Any overwhelming reasons why you felt it would be a bad choice? It's pretty hard to find much information on the school online, so I would really value any information you can give me.
The entire IMBA is in English so that's all good. The only problem that I've heard is that it's pretty hard to get certain jobs if you're not fluent in Mandarin - M/B/B, not so much of IB, and such. The school is currently on holiday, so I'm waiting to hear back from them on those matters.
But then, if your aim isn't to go into M/B/B or IB and you would like to build a career in China, I reckon Tsinghua is pretty good a starting point as any.
ad - the main reason for me was i applied literally at the last moment before the deadlines. i had just wrote my gmat then and did well enough that i wanted to try to see if i could get into a program for Sept. 2009. however, after i got in, i reconsidered my situation, and though i'd have a better chance of getting into other european or north american programs.
here's also a bit of info/advice that you won't get elsewhere. since my dad went to Tsinghua for undergrad, he knows and also was classmates with several of the current senior administration at the school. after talking to them for career advice, the general feedback i got was this - although Tsinghua is a great brand name in China right now, the Chinese corporate culture still favors outsiders with western degrees. it doesn't even have to be that elite, but as long as it's a western degree from a respectable program (think near elite schools or better).
also, without making this into a racial thing, race does matter and it factored heavily into my decision. if you're ethnically asian (like me), then a western mba will be held in higher regard than a Tsinghua mba. this is mostly because you'll be considered as having "made it" in the west before returning to work in china. whereas if you had a Tsinghua degree, you'll be considered as someone who hasn't made it in the west and had to come back to study in China. although you got your degree from the best Chinese institution, it still has the stigma of "made in China".
however, if you're of caucasian descent or anything non-east asian, i'd say a Tsinghua degree, combined with a couple of yrs in Beijing to get accustomed to the culture and language, will be very beneficial because you'll be seen as a foreigner with a genuine interest in China - you've come to study in China and you've come to study at the best institution here, i.e. Tsinghua. that's a story that you can sell to recruiters and hiring companies after graduation in a good light, and it's a better angle than to just be another foreigner with no respect or regard for the Chinese culture, who got his degree from an elite school in the US and came to China looking to exploit the local business opportunities. see how that fine distinction can be spun in different lights? true, it's not the same as a Harvard degree - but when you're competing for a job with someone from the west, you'll have a much better vibe with the Chinese. when you're trying to close a business deal, you'll be able to impress them with your cultural and linguistic skills that other "fresh off the boat" westerners won't have. basically, you'll be able to endear yourself to the Chinese, and that'll pay huge dividends in your career.
anyways, that's mostly why for me, it made sense to wait it out a yr and apply for a bunch of north american and european programs that to jump straight into bed with Tsinghua. the cautionary note here (aside from the race thing) is - i'm Chinese and already have some sort of family connections and networking in China, so i can afford to attend an mba program elsewhere, and then go work in China because the doors will already be open for me. for someone without that network, it might be more valuable for them to attend Tsinghua or CEIBS to gain the contacts and cultural experience if they're interested in working locally in China afterwards.
ps - on a side note, i strongly believe in Tsinghua > CEIBS in the coming years, as the CEIBS program is rather one dimensional and tailored for mid management professionals already working in China, whereas Tsinghua is more academically rigorous and will have both a stronger faculty and better recruiting once it becomes more established and better leverages its undergrad reputation. _________________
Dr. Satisfaction - Kudos on the post - very interesting insight and the undercurrent.
Though my knowledge of CEIBS is limited only to several encounters of their students, I would agree that Tsingua > CEIBS even though it is not ranked on BW or FT as high. I'd also say HKUST > CEIBS but that's a personal highly subjective opinion _________________
Thanks for the great explanation. I was wondering where you did your undergraduate? In the west? Or in China?
I'm Asian, Chinese descent and I see where you're coming from in regards about having a western degree. I've got an undergraduate from Australia and have always wanted to make the move into China. Given that I don't have family (direct) or networking in China, then I feel that Tsinghua would be the best choice for me.
Based on what the school's office told me, I understand that just about every MNC, etc recruits from Tsinghua - but fluent Mandarin (read/write) is a definite pre-requisite. Would you happen to have any insight into their recruitment? Personally, I'm looking to venture into a business development/corporate strategy role covering Asia Pac. I've been told that working for a local Chinese company may be less than ideal, but how bad/good it really will be, I don't know.
From the alumni that I've spoken to, they seem very happy to have gone to Tsinghua - as they acknowledged it has opened many doors in China, and given them opportunities to build a career in China. But like I said, fluent Mandarin seems to be a necessity, which is understandable.
ad - i did my undergrad in toronto, so we're in similar situations in that sense. however, i did spend part of my childhood in china, and my chinese is pretty fluent. i've also worked for for a yr or so in shanghai.
overall i think the tsinghua program would work well for you. it'll give you plenty of language practice if you need to brush up on your mandarin. it'll also open lots of doors for you. the alumni network is amazing and really opens a lot of doors...the connections you'll make in tsinghua will be very valuable, especially if you mingle with people outside of the mba class. they physics, engineering, and other science students are all likely to be very brilliant - they're pretty much the cream of the crop out of china's entire population...that's a big denominator if you look at it in %'s.
from what i hear, the classroom workload will be heavy compared to other mba programs. there will be lots of focus on academics. i guess it's fitting with the tsinghua culture, which has traditionally been very strong in academia. i'm pretty sure their professors are mostly from top US and other western institutions.
in terms of recruiting, you should get good opportunities at mnc's. the local companies...well they could be good or bad. i think the real key is, the tsinghua mba will open a lot of doors for you, and from there, you'll just have to charm them with your resume and interview skills. also, the local companies can be just as profitable as mnc's. or if you're really drawn to it, you can bring your management skills and abilities to the local companies, and really try to make an impact...they're all still relatively flexible in strucutre and will allow you lots of room to make your own mark. all of this would be much harder to do at mnc's imo.
happy chinese new yr to everyone too! _________________
Thanks for the insight on Tsinghua, really appreciate it. All in all, I'm pretty satisfied if I had to head there - I might do the MIT exchange depending on finances. US$53,800 for a year isn't cheap (no including cost of living).
All the best to you at Oxford, what are your post-MBA plans? Were you able to meet up with buffdaddy and friends at Oxford?
I am also looking to apply to Tsinghua and am pretty much on the same boat as you guys (Eth Chinese, wanting to venture out into the Wild Wild East.)
I was talking to an alum and he basically recommended me to go to a Top 10 school over Tsinghua IMBA as Tsinghua's MBA is still quite lacking in terms of "MBA experience." He mentioned that he was pretty much out on own and the MBA program offer little assistance in getting jobs and what not. Just something to think about...
Well, to be absolutely honest, 2 years ago, I would have attended a top 10 school in a heartbeat over Tsinghua. However, since then, I've been fortunate enough to visit Beijing and realize that I would like to try a career in China - whether it's going to make me the hottest thing on the block is another question, but I know I would like the experience of at least trying to make it in China (hopefully successfully).
For the price that I pay (USD35k) and the network that I would get out of Tsinghua, it's a gamble that I feel might provide a decent ROI.
Of course, having said that, a Top 10 could provide so much more in terms of job opportunity and branding - but I have been unsuccessful in being accepted into a Top 10 and so, have decided that Tsinghua is the best option for myself.
I believe that getting a job out of the MBA program is something that you're very much on your own. I've got friends at top 10 programs and they too got their jobs on their own effort, jobs weren't handed to them on a silver platter
But if you're applying to Tsinghua, and if you want help, just drop me a line and hopefully, I'll be able to help.
I'm going to see if I can do a study abroad at Tsinghua. Tsinghua has always had a soft spot in my heart, but I couldn't take the gamble, and felt like being Chinese would put me at a disadvantage with a Tsinghua iMBA.
We have a Student Ambassador Program here which can help prospective students understand more about the course and can put you in touch with MBA students here. You can find us on the Tsinghua SEM website.
Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Regards, Edward Tsang 曾柏力 Student Ambassador International MBA - Class of 2011 School of Economics and Management Tsinghua University, Beijing
Dr. Satisfaction - Kudos on the post - very interesting insight and the undercurrent.
Though my knowledge of CEIBS is limited only to several encounters of their students, I would agree that Tsingua > CEIBS even though it is not ranked on BW or FT as high. I'd also say HKUST > CEIBS but that's a personal highly subjective opinion
bb, I am interested in working in China/Hong Kong after my MBA. I am wondering about HKUST versus Tsinghua MBA? Do you have any insights or any info?