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# Until recently it was thought that ink used before the

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Until recently it was thought that ink used before the [#permalink]

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03 Mar 2005, 06:08
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Until recently it was thought that ink used before the sixteenth century did not contain titanium. However, a new type of analysis detected titanium in the ink of the famous Bible printed by Johannes Gutenberg and in that of another fifteenth-century Bible known as B-36, though not in the ink of any of numerous other fifteenth-century books analyzed. This finding is of great significance, since it not only strongly supports the hypothesis that B-36 was printed by Gutenberg but also shows that the presence of titanium in the ink of the purportedly fifteenth century Vinland Map can no longer be regarded as a reason for doubting the mapâ€™s authenticity.
The reasoning in the passage is vulnerable to criticism on the ground that
(A) the results of the analysis are interpreted as indicating that the use of titanium as an ingredient in fifteenth-century ink both was, and was not, extremely restricted
(B) if the technology that makes it possible to detect titanium in printing ink has only recently become available, it is unlikely that printers or artists in the fifteenth century would know whether their ink contained titanium or not
(C) it is unreasonable to suppose that determination of the date and location of a documentâ€™s printing or drawing can be made solely on the basis of the presence or absence of a single element in the ink used in the document
(D) both the B-36 Bible and the Vinland Map are objects that can be appreciated on their own merits whether or not the precise date of their creation or the identity of the person who made them is known
(E) the discovery of titanium in the ink of the Vinland Map must have occurred before titanium was discovered in the ink of the Gutenberg Bible and the B-36 Bible

Plz explain
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03 Mar 2005, 06:21
I will go with 'C' - becos this attacks one of the premise which says that this Bible is from the fifteenth century.
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03 Mar 2005, 06:33
(A) the results of the analysis are interpreted as indicating that the use of titanium as an ingredient in fifteenth-century ink both was, and was not, extremely restricted => the results show no clear picture regarding the use of titanium of ink; that is why the analysis is not reliable => OK !
(B) if the technology that makes it possible to detect titanium in printing ink has only recently become available, it is unlikely that printers or artists in the fifteenth century would know whether their ink contained titanium or not => so what ?
(C) it is unreasonable to suppose that determination of the date and location of a documentâ€™s printing or drawing can be made solely on the basis of the presence or absence of a single element in the ink used in the document => it can => suppose a rare ink that is used only in a certain century => it would determine the date of an object
(D) both the B-36 Bible and the Vinland Map are objects that can be appreciated on their own merits whether or not the precise date of their creation or the identity of the person who made them is known => out of scope
(E) the discovery of titanium in the ink of the Vinland Map must have occurred before titanium was discovered in the ink of the Gutenberg Bible and the B-36 Bible => that is what the claim infers

A) !
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03 Mar 2005, 08:39
I think it is (A).

At one place the argument says that titanium is present only in very few locations and also at the same time it says that titanuim could have been used in another place.
Just that the argument does not provide conclusive evidence about availability of ink with titanium. It just proves that titanium ink was special to a particular place.
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03 Mar 2005, 13:24
A)
it says that using titanium was and wasnt restricted, if according to the passage titanium was in the Bible-B36 and Vinland Map it only makes using titanium ink restricted....how does this support it being not restricted?

b) just because the technology to detect titanium in ink was just discovered doesnt mean that people using ink in the 15th century didnt know what was in their ink, afterall they were probably making it...they may not have called it titanium but there must have beenn something about it which made it desirable to have in ink, for "special publishings like the B36.

C) Just because it seems remotely sensible, just the evidence of one substance existing in two documents does not prove their authenticity, unless it was something unique to that particular period....obviously it wasnt, as that was the premise of questioning the Map in the first place.

D and E are just irrelevant and have nothing to do with critique-ing the argument.

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03 Mar 2005, 13:52
Fact: It was thought ink before 15 century doesn't have T.
Fact: JG's ink have T and B-36 have T. Non of the other books have ink that have T.
Conclusion 1: B-36 must be from JG (becuase it is not very likely for 15 century ink to have T unless it is from JG).
Conclusion 2: We should not doubt the authenticity of Vinland Map simply because its ink contains T (because it is likely that 15 century ink would have T).

(A) the results of the analysis are interpreted as indicating that the use of titanium as an ingredient in fifteenth-century ink both was, and was not, extremely restricted
Exactly. See above analysis.

(B) if the technology that makes it possible to detect titanium in printing ink has only recently become available, it is unlikely that printers or artists in the fifteenth century would know whether their ink contained titanium or not
It has nothing to do with whether they know about it or not.

(C) it is unreasonable to suppose that determination of the date and location of a documentâ€™s printing or drawing can be made solely on the basis of the presence or absence of a single element in the ink used in the document
The argument did not say the evidence presented (one element in the ink etc) is the only evidence, it just claim that it offers strong support for the hyperthesis.

(D) both the B-36 Bible and the Vinland Map are objects that can be appreciated on their own merits whether or not the precise date of their creation or the identity of the person who made them is known
Sure, but it is out of scope.

(E) the discovery of titanium in the ink of the Vinland Map must have occurred before titanium was discovered in the ink of the Gutenberg Bible and the B-36 Bible
Maybe. But it doesn't change anything.

(A)
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03 Mar 2005, 13:59
HongHu wrote:
Fact: It was thought ink before 15 century doesn't have T.
Fact: JG's ink have T and B-36 have T. Non of the other books have ink that have T.
Conclusion 1: B-36 must be from JG (becuase it is not very likely for 15 century ink to have T unless it is from JG).
Conclusion 2: We should not doubt the authenticity of Vinland Map simply because its ink contains T (because it is likely that 15 century ink would have T).

(A) the results of the analysis are interpreted as indicating that the use of titanium as an ingredient in fifteenth-century ink both was, and was not, extremely restricted
Exactly. See above analysis.

(B) if the technology that makes it possible to detect titanium in printing ink has only recently become available, it is unlikely that printers or artists in the fifteenth century would know whether their ink contained titanium or not
It has nothing to do with whether they know about it or not.

(C) it is unreasonable to suppose that determination of the date and location of a documentâ€™s printing or drawing can be made solely on the basis of the presence or absence of a single element in the ink used in the document
The argument did not say the evidence presented (one element in the ink etc) is the only evidence, it just claim that it offers strong support for the hyperthesis.

(D) both the B-36 Bible and the Vinland Map are objects that can be appreciated on their own merits whether or not the precise date of their creation or the identity of the person who made them is known
Sure, but it is out of scope.

(E) the discovery of titanium in the ink of the Vinland Map must have occurred before titanium was discovered in the ink of the Gutenberg Bible and the B-36 Bible
Maybe. But it doesn't change anything.

(A)

Has to be "A"....I just didn't understand what the hell "A" was saying.
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03 Mar 2005, 14:02
anandnk wrote:
I think it is (A).

At one place the argument says that titanium is present only in very few locations and also at the same time it says that titanuim could have been used in another place.
Just that the argument does not provide conclusive evidence about availability of ink with titanium. It just proves that titanium ink was special to a particular place.

Anand by very few places doyou mean in books like Bible (restricted). 'that titanuim could have been used in another place.' does it mean common things like maps?
Or is it something I am not still getting.
S
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03 Mar 2005, 14:17
banerjeea_98 wrote:
Has to be "A"....I just didn't understand what the hell "A" was saying.

A says one of the conclusion is based on the assumption that T in 15 cent ink is extremely rare. Yet the other conclusion is based on the assumption that I in 15 cent ink is NOT extremely rare.
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03 Mar 2005, 16:10
HongHu wrote:
banerjeea_98 wrote:
Has to be "A"....I just didn't understand what the hell "A" was saying.

A says one of the conclusion is based on the assumption that T in 15 cent ink is extremely rare. Yet the other conclusion is based on the assumption that I in 15 cent ink is NOT extremely rare.

yes Hong, I understood it later after I looked at ur post, but not within 2 mins of reading and ans the ques.
Re: CR Maps authenticity   [#permalink] 03 Mar 2005, 16:10
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