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Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers

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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 11 Sep 2012, 10:49
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catfreak wrote:
By the time philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein met Bertrand Russell in 1912, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and having been shaken greatly by the loss of two brothers, the former would be living with depression for almost a decade.

afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and having been shaken greatly by the loss of two brothers, the former would be living with depression for almost a decade.

the former would have been living with depression for almost a decade, having been afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity to emotional instability and having been shaken by the loss of two of his brothers

the former had lived with depression for almost a decade, had been afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity to emotional instability and had been greatly shaken with the loss of two of his brothers

the former had lived with depression for almost a decade, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and greatly shaken by the loss of two of his brothers

the former, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability, greatly shaken by the loss of two of his brothers, lived with depression for almost a decade


[Reveal] Spoiler:
OA - D


As per the article above, comma + verb+ed should modify the preceding noun/noun phrase. Here, in the correct option, it is not so. Shraddha, can you please help me with it.
Thanks!


What is the source of this question? Reason I ask is simple - the correct choice employs the construction in which verb-ed modifier modifies the preceding clause. As we noted in the article above, official questions do not seem to recognize this role of verb-ed modifier. So there is a clear disconnect. So I look forward to your response on the source of this question. If it not an official question, then I suggest you do not worry about it. If it is indeed an official question, then its a whole different thing - where in I will need to worry about changing our course work to reflect the change in position. :)
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 30 Oct 2012, 09:39
egmat wrote:
catfreak wrote:
Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, that they believe to be capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

a. that they believe to be capable
b. that they beleive are capable
c. they they believe will be capable
d. believe as capable
e. believed to be capable

I marked D, but the OA is A.
Shraddha, can you please explain


@catfreak. I know that I am responding a little to this post. And I know you are expecting a straightforward answer such as this is exactly why D is not correct and A is correct. But I will tackle this a little differently. Take a look at this sentence with Choice D:

Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, believe as capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

Now I want you to analyze the sentence structure of this sentence and tell me the SV pairs of the clauses. With that structure you should be able to answer the following questions:
1: What is verb of "scientists"? Believe
2A: What is the role of "derived from..." - is derived verb or verb-ed modifier? modifier
2B: If it is verb, then identify its subject. -NA
2C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?- embryonic stem cells
3A: What is the role of "believe as..." - is believe verb or verb-ed modifier?- verb
3B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.- Scientist
3C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?- NA

I look forward to your response.

Take care,
Payal


Here is my take on this. Please let me know if my approach is correct.

Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, that they believe to be capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

a. that they believe to be capable - believe to be- correct idiom
b. that they beleive are capable- Believe are- unidiomatic
c. they they believe will be capable -unidiomatic
d. believe as capable- unidiomatic
e. believed to be capable- believed- incorrect tense
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2012, 04:49
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Kudos Shradhha.. :)

Wonderful article again and a great explanations of the qs. posted in this thread.

Can you please share some more of 700+ qs. on this topic for the community?
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 30 Dec 2012, 18:29
egmat wrote:
1. When verb-ing modifier is separated from the clause using a comma, then this modifier modifies the preceding clause.


Shraddha, thanks very much for all your explanations.

I have a question about exception to the rule above. I ran into this GmatPrep answer choice yesterday:

10. The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously in that a single tree, depending on both its size and on climate and altitude, could produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year.
A. enormously in that a single tree, depending on both its size and on climate and altitude, could produce
B. enormously in that a single tree, dependent on its size and also on climate and altitude, is able to produce
C. enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce
D. enormously, because a single tree, being dependent on its size, climate, and altitude, is capable of producing
E. enormously, because a single tree, dependent both on its size as well as on climate and altitude, could produce

The correct answer is C:
"The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year."

My understanding is that "depending on its size and on climate and altitude" modifies the following "is able to produce" and not the preceding clause or noun. When working on this problem, I decided that "depending on" modifies the preceding "single tree" according to Gmat rules, the conclusion that seems to be totally wrong.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 30 Dec 2012, 20:02
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alexcey wrote:
egmat wrote:
1. When verb-ing modifier is separated from the clause using a comma, then this modifier modifies the preceding clause.


Shraddha, thanks very much for all your explanations.

I have a question about exception to the rule above. I ran into this GmatPrep answer choice yesterday:

10. The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously in that a single tree, depending on both its size and on climate and altitude, could produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year.
A. enormously in that a single tree, depending on both its size and on climate and altitude, could produce
B. enormously in that a single tree, dependent on its size and also on climate and altitude, is able to produce
C. enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce
D. enormously, because a single tree, being dependent on its size, climate, and altitude, is capable of producing
E. enormously, because a single tree, dependent both on its size as well as on climate and altitude, could produce

The correct answer is C:
"The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year."

My understanding is that "depending on its size and on climate and altitude" modifies the following "is able to produce" and not the preceding clause or noun. When working on this problem, I decided that "depending on" modifies the preceding "single tree" according to Gmat rules, the conclusion that seems to be totally wrong.


Hi,
I think e-GMAT team is on leave till Jan-01 as per the mail from Rajat, the e-GMAT CEO .So, you can expect a reply from them on Jan-02 or after that..However if it comes prior to that day then it's a bonus for us..:) I also have few queries posted in different e-GMAT threads in the forum and awaiting their reply eagerly.

Now let's come to your qs.
I'm not an expert, but from my understanding the meaning of the sentence is as follows:
Coffee production varies.The reason is that a single tree produces different quantity of coffee berries.Now why or how it does that? Well that is driven by some internal and external factors like tree size and the climate of the area where the tree goes.
So, in conclusion,the tree is dependent on the above factors in order to produce the varying quantity of coffee berries...

Now, let's wait for the e-GMAT's reply...:)

Happy New Year... :thumbup:
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 16:53
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Hi alexcey and debayan,

Sorry for getting back a little late on this. Let’s study the sentence with the correct answer choice C:

The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year.

In this sentence “comma + depending…” modifies the clause “a single tree is able to produce…”. So it essentially modifies the action in the clause. In the article above, the Takeaway defines various ways of placing the verb-ing modifiers that modify the entire clause or the action in the clause.

1. Ria crossed the bridge, riding on her bicycle.
2. Riding on her bicycle, Ria crossed the bridge.
3. Ria, riding on her bicycle, crossed the bridge. – This construction is correct as used in the correct answer choice of the official question. So here we go. We learnt a new way of writing verb-ing modifier that modifies the action of the clause or in other words, modifies the clause. In all the three sentences, “riding…” modifies how Ria crossed the bridge – the action of the clause.

Similarly, “depending…” modifies a single tree is able to produce – the action of the clause.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 21:39
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egmat wrote:
Hi alexcey and debayan,

Sorry for getting back a little late on this. Let’s study the sentence with the correct answer choice C:

The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year.

In this sentence “comma + depending…” modifies the clause “a single tree is able to produce…”. So it essentially modifies the action in the clause. In the article above, the Takeaway defines various ways of placing the verb-ing modifiers that modify the entire clause or the action in the clause.

1. Ria crossed the bridge, riding on her bicycle.
2. Riding on her bicycle, Ria crossed the bridge.
3. Ria, riding on her bicycle, crossed the bridge. – This construction is correct as used in the correct answer choice of the official question. So here we go. We learnt a new way of writing verb-ing modifier that modifies the action of the clause or in other words, modifies the clause. In all the three sentences, “riding…” modifies how Ria crossed the bridge – the action of the clause.

Similarly, “depending…” modifies a single tree is able to produce – the action of the clause.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha


No worries Shradhha...as we were aware of the Holiday season...and all of us need a break at least once in a year...:)

Thanks for the detail explanation. BTW, can you please let me know whether mine sounds good? I think it was OK.

Appreciate your reply.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 07:01
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Hi debayan,

Yes, your understanding of meaning is absolutely correct. You have explained it pretty well. However, the use of like in you sentence is incorrect. :wink:
Never mind. :) Your exaplanation is correct.

Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 07:17
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egmat wrote:
Hi debayan,

Yes, your understanding of meaning is absolutely correct. You have explained it pretty well. However, the use of like in you sentence is incorrect. :wink:
Never mind. :) Your exaplanation is correct.

Thanks.
Shraddha


Thanks for your appreciation Shradhha.
And good catch I must say.. :) It should be 'such as' I think.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2013, 02:53
egmat wrote:
catfreak wrote:
Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, that they believe to be capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

a. that they believe to be capable
b. that they beleive are capable
c. they they believe will be capable
d. believe as capable
e. believed to be capable

I marked D, but the OA is A.
Shraddha, can you please explain


@catfreak. I know that I am responding a little to this post. And I know you are expecting a straightforward answer such as this is exactly why D is not correct and A is correct. But I will tackle this a little differently. Take a look at this sentence with Choice D:

Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, believe as capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

Now I want you to analyze the sentence structure of this sentence and tell me the SV pairs of the clauses. With that structure you should be able to answer the following questions:
1: What is verb of "scientists"? received
2A: What is the role of "derived from..." - is derived verb or verb-ed modifier? verb-ed modifier
2B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.
2C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies? embryonic stem cells
3A: What is the role of "believe as..." - is believe verb or verb-ed modifier? verb
3B: If it is verb, then identify its subject. embryonic stem cells
3C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?

I look forward to your response.

Take care,
Payal



Just taking a dig at this. I did not quite understand how to solve this at first instance. But still feel something is amiss in choice A.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 22 Aug 2013, 00:17
hi shraddha,

just a request to have your detailed analysis for below question.

Since the 1930’s aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.
(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly
(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped
(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect
(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner
(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so

since-the-1930-s-aircraft-manufacturers-have-tried-to-build-134320.html#p1095187

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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 22 Aug 2013, 07:31
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blueseas wrote:
hi shraddha,

just a request to have your detailed analysis for below question.

Since the 1930’s aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.
(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly
(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped
(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect
(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner
(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so

since-the-1930-s-aircraft-manufacturers-have-tried-to-build-134320.html#p1095187

regards


Image


Hi blueseas,

Since the 1930’s aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.

Since the meaning of this sentence is pretty simple to understand, let’s move to the Error Analysis.

Error Analysis:

The verb-ed modifier “shaped” modifies the immediate preceding noun entity “”frictionless wings”. Well, this sentence does not seem to have any error. So we will hold on to this one till we get a better choice.

PoE

(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly: On hold.

(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped: Correct. This answer choice is certainly better than Choice A because it uses the noun + noun modifier to explicitly mention that wings were shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air over “them = wings” would not become turbulent. The reference of pronoun “them” in this answer choice has been clarified further. There is no ambiguity about the reference of this pronoun.

(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect: Incorrect. Usage of “perfect” is not correct.

(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner: Incorrect. Adjectives “smooth” and “perfect” now modify the “manner” in which the “wings” were made and not the “wings”.

(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so: Incorrect. Use of “having been…” makes the choice wordy.

P.S: This does not seem to be an official question, is it?

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 22 Aug 2013, 08:02
egmat wrote:
P.S: This does not seem to be an official question, is it?

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


THANKS..

yes this is not an official question.

great explanation. :)

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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 09 Nov 2013, 06:45
Dear e-gmat ,

As per my analysis

Now I want you to analyze the sentence structure of this sentence and tell me the SV pairs of the clauses. With that structure you should be able to answer the following questions:
1: What is verb of "scientists"? - Have received
2A: What is the role of "derived from..." - is derived verb or verb-ed modifier? - Modifier and modifies embryonic cells
2B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.
2C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?
3A: What is the role of "believe as..." - is believe verb or verb-ed modifier? - Hard to answer 3 questions
3B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.
3C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?

I look forward to your response.


I too agree that answer is A ..Still answer from your side will help me in gaining strengthen knowledge .
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 10 Nov 2013, 11:40
Great Explanation.Thanks a lot. Kudos to you.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 22 Nov 2013, 01:02
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Dressed as a man and using the name Robert Shurtleff, Deborah Sampson, the first woman to draw a soldier´s pension, joined the Continental Army in 1782 at the age of 22, was injured three times, and was discharged in 1783 because she had become too ill to serve.

Although I got this question correct, I donot understand the non- underlined portion of the sentence (the one in bold letters).

As per the article, if the subject (Deborah Sampson in this case) does the action (dressing and using the name in this case) Verb-ING is used. However here Verb-ED is used (DRESSED). Please clarify. Thanks.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2013, 22:33
Hi Sharddha,

When I tried this question I marked E as an answer because I couldn't make to what "that" is modifying.

egmat wrote:
catfreak wrote:
Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, that they believe to be capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

a. that they believe to be capable
b. that they beleive are capable
c. they they believe will be capable
d. believe as capable
e. believed to be capable

I marked D, but the OA is A.
Shraddha, can you please explain


@catfreak. I know that I am responding a little to this post. And I know you are expecting a straightforward answer such as this is exactly why D is not correct and A is correct. But I will tackle this a little differently. Take a look at this sentence with Choice D:

Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, believe as capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

Now I want you to analyze the sentence structure of this sentence and tell me the SV pairs of the clauses. With that structure you should be able to answer the following questions:
1: What is verb of "scientists"? : have received
2A: What is the role of "derived from..." - is verb - ed modifier providing additional information for stem cells
2B: If it is verb, then identify its subject. - Stem cells
2C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?
3A: What is the role of "believe as..." - is believe verb or verb-ed modifier? -> believe should modify Research
3B: If it is verb, then identify its subject. ->Research
3C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?

When I was attempting question I got confused to what that points . Though I am clear that the 'That' plays two roles in a sentence.
1) to connect the various explanations of doer. example the board to director suggested that the new invention will help poor people and that it will be in reach of everybody.
2) to modify a noun.

now in sentence what ''
That will be pointing to ?? Research or permission.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 09 Jan 2014, 06:57
Hi shraddha,

I'm aware that verb-ing modifiers after a comma modify the preceding clause. However consider a sentence like below:
Defense attorneys have occasionally argued that their clients' misconduct stemmed from a reaction to something ingested, but in attributing criminal or delinquent behavior to some food allergy, the perpetrators are in effect told that they are not responsible for their actions.
Is the underlined sentence modifying ? Is it the preceding clause in this case?

Thanks for your help.

Vishal
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 12 Jan 2014, 23:46
egmat wrote:

Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, believe as capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

Now I want you to analyze the sentence structure of this sentence and tell me the SV pairs of the clauses. With that structure you should be able to answer the following questions:
1: What is verb of "scientists"?
2A: What is the role of "derived from..." - is derived verb or verb-ed modifier?
2B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.
2C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?
3A: What is the role of "believe as..." - is believe verb or verb-ed modifier?
3B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.
3C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?

I look forward to your response.

Take care,
Payal


Hi Payal,

Please check whether the anwers to the questions asked in the above post are correct.

Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, believe as capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

1: What is verb of "scientists"? have recently received
2A: What is the role of "derived from..." - is derived verb or verb-ed modifier? verb-ed modifier
2B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.
2C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies? it modifies embryonic stem cells
3A: What is the role of "believe as..." - is believe verb or verb-ed modifier? verb
3B: If it is verb, then identify its subject. they (Scientists) believe
3C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?

Please explain why option B is wrong? that they believe are capable of

or can we say - that they(Scientists) believe are capable of
that they(Scientists) believe to be capable of
_________________

Thanks & Regards
Yodee



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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2014, 01:56
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers   [#permalink] 18 Feb 2014, 01:56
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