Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

It appears that you are browsing the GMAT Club forum unregistered!

Signing up is free, quick, and confidential.
Join other 500,000 members and get the full benefits of GMAT Club

Registration gives you:

Tests

Take 11 tests and quizzes from GMAT Club and leading GMAT prep companies such as Manhattan GMAT,
Knewton, and others. All are free for GMAT Club members.

Applicant Stats

View detailed applicant stats such as GPA, GMAT score, work experience, location, application
status, and more

Books/Downloads

Download thousands of study notes,
question collections, GMAT Club’s
Grammar and Math books.
All are free!

Thank you for using the timer!
We noticed you are actually not timing your practice. Click the START button first next time you use the timer.
There are many benefits to timing your practice, including:

Re: Data Sufficiency Challenge Problem [#permalink]

Show Tags

17 Nov 2010, 00:55

[quote="VeritasPrepBrian"]Hello, community:

Try out this problem that I just wrote up for one of my students:

What is the value of product abc?

1) 2^a * 3^b * 5^c = 1728

2) a, b, and c are nonnegative integers[/quote]

1728 = 2^6 * 3^3 * 5^0

(1) If a,b,c are not integers, they can take infinite values Eg (6,3,0) is te integral solution Take c=0, a=1 then b = [m]log_3(864)[/m] Take c=0, a=2 then b = [m]log_3(432)[/m]

(2) Not sufficient to know the product

(1+2) Since prime factorisation is unique, a=6,b=3,c=0 ()--> abc=0 _________________

Re: Data Sufficiency Challenge Problem [#permalink]

Show Tags

17 Nov 2010, 10:36

2

This post received KUDOS

1

This post was BOOKMARKED

Thanks for the responses, everyone! I love this question because of the strategy it brings up, which we call:

Why Are You Here?

Regarding statement 2, it's nowhere close to being sufficient on its own. So there are two likely reasons that it's there:

1) To trick you into thinking that you need it, and therefore picking C instead of A 2) To add information that IS, in fact, necessary to go with statement 1, so that the correct answer is C and not A

The GMAT doesn't use "red herring" statements - those that are simply so far out of scope that they're not even relevant - very often at all; if they provide a statement in a Data Sufficiency problem there has to be a reason...it's either a trap or it's necessary information. The good news for you is that you can use either case the same way: look at that statement to determine whether you really need it.

Here, although statement 1 may seem sufficient on its own (c must be 0 in order to make the 5 term equal to 1, since 1728 has no multiples of 5), that only fits if we know that they're all integers. Statement 2, by providing us with that information explicitly (they're nonnegative integers), should make us pause to think about statement 1: Do they have to be integers?

We don't need to use logarithms on the GMAT (thankfully!), but we should know enough that there would conceivably exist a set of noninteger exponents that would solve this problem. Even if you just assume that a and b are 1 so that:

5^c = 288

There is some value for c that will get us 288, so we can prove that statement 1 is not on its own sufficient. We need statement 2's help to determine that they're integers, so the correct answer is C.

So, strategically, when you see a statement that on its own is clearly not sufficient, ask yourself "why are you here?". Is it providing essential information, or is it there to make you think you need it? _________________

Re: Data Sufficiency Challenge Problem [#permalink]

Show Tags

17 Nov 2010, 14:51

It should be C. (1) does not give me enough information. There are different variations of a,b,c (integers, non-integers, lagorithmus, positive and negative values) that will satisfy the equations. insufficient

(2) alone insufficient.

Combining (1) and (2) we have now the information that supplement statement (1). If we know that a,b,c are non-negative integers, we could then say that the only possible values are 6,3 and 0 (1728=2^6*3^3*5^0) and the value of a*b*c=0 Hence C

Re: Data Sufficiency Challenge Problem [#permalink]

Show Tags

18 Nov 2010, 00:47

A for me. 2^a * 3^b * 5^c = 1728 would mean that the factor of 5 does not contribute to the multiplication (mutiples of 5 end with 5 or 0). Hence the value of c = 0. By knowing this, I can say that the value of abc = 0.

Re: Data Sufficiency Challenge Problem [#permalink]

Show Tags

30 Apr 2014, 09:31

VeritasPrepBrian wrote:

Thanks for the responses, everyone! I love this question because of the strategy it brings up, which we call:

Why Are You Here?

Regarding statement 2, it's nowhere close to being sufficient on its own. So there are two likely reasons that it's there:

1) To trick you into thinking that you need it, and therefore picking C instead of A 2) To add information that IS, in fact, necessary to go with statement 1, so that the correct answer is C and not A

The GMAT doesn't use "red herring" statements - those that are simply so far out of scope that they're not even relevant - very often at all; if they provide a statement in a Data Sufficiency problem there has to be a reason...it's either a trap or it's necessary information. The good news for you is that you can use either case the same way: look at that statement to determine whether you really need it.

Here, although statement 1 may seem sufficient on its own (c must be 0 in order to make the 5 term equal to 1, since 1728 has no multiples of 5), that only fits if we know that they're all integers. Statement 2, by providing us with that information explicitly (they're nonnegative integers), should make us pause to think about statement 1: Do they have to be integers?

We don't need to use logarithms on the GMAT (thankfully!), but we should know enough that there would conceivably exist a set of noninteger exponents that would solve this problem. Even if you just assume that a and b are 1 so that:

5^c = 288

There is some value for c that will get us 288, so we can prove that statement 1 is not on its own sufficient. We need statement 2's help to determine that they're integers, so the correct answer is C.

So, strategically, when you see a statement that on its own is clearly not sufficient, ask yourself "why are you here?". Is it providing essential information, or is it there to make you think you need it?

Re: What is the value of product abc? [#permalink]

Show Tags

04 May 2014, 09:26

hi brian

so basically we should never assume that the numbers r integers if it is not given... also i need some explanation for statement one.... how is a,b,c being integers matter?... if they were fractions... how would they give us that number 1728? _________________

Hope to clear it this time!! GMAT 1: 540 Preparing again

Re: What is the value of product abc? [#permalink]

Show Tags

20 May 2014, 07:25

NGGMAT wrote:

hi brian

so basically we should never assume that the numbers r integers if it is not given... also i need some explanation for statement one.... how is a,b,c being integers matter?... if they were fractions... how would they give us that number 1728?

When a, b, c are integers, and we have first statement as well, we need to put c=0 because 1728 has no 5 in it, and we have to make 5^c as 1. Even if they are fractions there can be two cases,

Case 1: They can be rational numbers/fractions, in which case the information coupled with statement 1 will be sufficient.

Case 2: They can be irrational numbers/fractions. In this case it won't suffice.

a, b and c can have values: 6, 3 and 0 respectively. or if we take values for a and b to be 5, 3, we get: \(5^c = 2\) =>\(c=\frac{log 2}{log5}\) if we take values for a and b to be 6, 2, we get: \(5^c = 3\) =>\(c= \frac{log 3}{log5}\)

Multiple solutions exist. So not sufficient

Statement 2: a, b, and c are nonnegative integers

Not sufficient

Combining both Statements,

we get, a = 6, b= 3 and c= 0

Hence, Answer is C _________________

If you liked the post, please press the'Kudos' button on the left

Re: What is the value of product abc? [#permalink]

Show Tags

15 Apr 2016, 08:04

Hello from the GMAT Club BumpBot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

Want to see all other topics I dig out? Follow me (click follow button on profile). You will receive a summary of all topics I bump in your profile area as well as via email. _________________

Part 2 of the GMAT: How I tackled the GMAT and improved a disappointing score Apologies for the month gap. I went on vacation and had to finish up a...

I’m a little delirious because I’m a little sleep deprived. But whatever. I have to write this post because... I’M IN! Funnily enough, I actually missed the acceptance phone...

So the last couple of weeks have seen a flurry of discussion in our MBA class Whatsapp group around Brexit, the referendum and currency exchange. Most of us believed...

This highly influential bestseller was first published over 25 years ago. I had wanted to read this book for a long time and I finally got around to it...