What you think about the new BW rankings thread (Today 5PM)

I can give you kudos, hehehehe.

Well, about BW ranking: There will be always points to complain about a ranking.

Somebody stated about an East Coast skew, and that's somehow obvious as there are many more schools there than in the west coast, but as someone else observed, 3 schools in the Top 5 are Midwesterns.

Anyway, just one more thing to sell magazines and to generate discussion.

Is it just me, or was it a random reshuffle...

https://www.businessweek.com/bschools/ra ... l_in+depth

https://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactiv ... l_in+depth

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate myself for having guessed the #1 school correctly. Further, I also salute my projections for having included every university (in random order) that appeared in the top 10 BW rankings.

Looking forward to the kudos!

My original projections!

1) Chicago
2) Wharton
3) Harvard
4) Stanford
5) Kellogg
6) MIT
7) Tuck
8) Ross
9) Columbia
10) Haas/Duke

Some data from the BW site:

GMAT Mean Median
Chicago 713 720
Harvard 720
Kellogg 711 710
Wharton 714 720
Ross 706 710
Stanford 726 730
Columbia
Duke 696 700
MIT 708 710
Haas 714 710
Cornell 694 700
Tuck 712 720
NYU 708 710
UCLA 711 710
Indiana 663 670
Darden 693 700
Tepper 690 700
Yale 718 720
Goizueta 680 685

Endowment:
HBS 2,821
Stanford GSB 1,007
Chicago Booth 803
Kellogg 756
Wharton 747
MIT Sloan 668
Yale SOM 633
Columbia 434
Michigan Ross 420
Virginia Darden 369

I considered the $300M gift for Chicago's number and I believe that these are older numbers before this market meltdown...

Interesting results... How did Indiana manage to push Darden out of the top 15?

I prefer the US News rankings... they make me happier

Odd Kelloggs average GMAT on BW is lower than what they published as our class profile. I think the endownment had to be from sometime not too long ago but definitely before the complete meltdown.

Old endowment numbers (I think these are 2 years old):
Harvard = 2.8b
Stanford = 982m
Wharton = 691m
Sloan = 657m
Kellogg = 728m
Chicago = 449m
Tuck = 261m
Haas = 208m
Columbia = 415m
Stern = didn't see it
Ross = 390m
Duke = 214m
Darden = 360m
Cornell = 185m
Yale = 576m
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Do donations just get added to the endowment? I am not sure how it is calculated, but I don't believe Michigan's endowment increased by $100 million after Steve Ross' gift.

These numbers you have are from jun/30/07

The BW methodology takes 2009 class I believe.

MGBLUE, I believe I can just add, as this is the value of the endowment - though some people say that this is a very conservative estimate of the gift.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that all Top Schools are well above the 700 on GMAT.

I guess it all depends how they account for it on their books...all I know is they are collecting interest on it every year or something like that...of course if they cash out the value they would have 300 million or whatever the estimate is but I dont think they would do that. Cashing out would probably sour relationships with lots of alums who would see that in bad taste.

The real question is how much will that 300m be worth in a few more months haha. All these endowments are taking big hits these days. This is probably part of the reason so many schools are undergoing major fund raising efforts. Kellogg's new building is going to cost a pretty penny so I am sure they are going to be putting naming rights up for bid. Personally I think it would be interesting if the building is named after an international alum since schools for the most part have pretty boring names...we have an indian dean, imagine if our building was named after an indian...that would definitely increase apps from that part of the world.
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What do people think of Yale's average GMAT going from 700 --> 718. Whats up with that? And their BW rank went from 19-->24. The school got extremely more selective as it got crushed in the rankings.

BW does not take average GMAT into account. That is USNews.

I think that 1) the BW rankings are garbage and 2) that Yale's selectivity is a mirage. They may have a really low acceptance rate and a high GMAT average, but they have the same pool of applicants as Cornell/Duke/Darden not Columbia/Kellogg/Chicago etc so their selectivity is more on par with the former group. Their ranking is similar to that group to (10-15) not 25. 25 is ridiculous. So was 19 for that matter.

I'm fairly happy with Emory's Goizueta Business School maintaining its ranking at 23. The program has been undergoing some major changes in the past couple of years, including finding a new Dean for the business school and revamping the curriculum. I think that maintaining this ranking during a time of flux is great for us going forward.

From what I hear about it from people on these boards, Emory sounds glorious.

Now answering the question: What I think about the new BW rankings?

Well, schools who do well brag about it, schools who do badly call it $#!&. Of course people in Chicago will brag about it, as did Kellogg and Wharton for a long time.

I'd say that no matter where the school is in the ranking, people shouldn't base their choice of where to apply "just" by that, I believe that it will influence many people though.

Schools have different approaches, values, and goals. Last year we were here talking about how interesting is that usually applicants don't get to both Kellogg and Chicago Booth. They are schools with different approaches and different student body, and usually either "south" or "north" - though I met form 5 to 7 people who got into both. There's no right or wrong here, as different people can find their "places".

My advice: don't apply just because of: rankings, name, selectivity, GMAT grade, etc. Apply because you will fit there, because the school teaches classes you want to take, because you can really go forward, otherwise it's going to be some awfully big bucks thrown away.

I agree with Kwam, dont go only by rankings. Yes we know the general view of different schools, so thats probably a better reflection than year to year rankings. I mean Kellogg is above stanford in BW and Chicago is above HBS...but students at these schools I dont think would argue the general perception of schools standings. I mean of course there are people that turn down H/S/W for other schools but not nearly at the rate it happens in reverse. I know of three people in my section who turned down HBS (there may be more) but there are probably far more people at HBS who turned down Kellogg.

However, BW does provide a great source of information that might be valuable to people researching schools. Check to see if they have the areas of concentration you are interested in...also look at the number of electives offered, sometimes its overwhelming to see 100+ electives knowing you will only be able to take a 20 or so during your two years but in my opinion having 120+ is a lot better than having 60 since you can really tailor your degree to your goals and interests. Also take a look at class sizes, most are going to be similar though but if someone has 85+ when most have 60ish might be tough since most classes are interactive. You can even go as far to find the student to teacher ratio just like undergrad haha.

Of course everyone also focuses on employment stats, but try not just look at just salary but % employeed after 3 months...and why some students didnt pursue jobs. Specifically when you are looking at why X% of student aren't looking for a job, check to see how many of those are sponsored. Look at this as, if companies are willing to pay for students to attend a school its probably a good indication of it being a good program. Remember only top companies sponsor people. For example HBS has 16% of their class not looking for jobs and 69% of those are company sponsored...so 11% of their class is sponsored. Its probably a safe bet that they have one of the highest...note Stanfords number is very low but the % starting their own business is very large.

But remember, numbers dont tell you much about the culture of a school.
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Interesting rankings... Haas and Tuck both fell a little bit, and Stanford is still #6. Like kwam and river said, it really is about the specific details in each of these rankings that will help students select schools, not the general rankings. For example, for someone choosing between Kellogg and Haas, it would be silly to go to Haas if you want to do GM, Strategy, Finance, or Consulting. But it would also be silly to go to Kellogg if you want to do high-tech, entrepreneurship, or non-profit/clean tech. Each school has its strengths and weaknesses, so pick the one that fits what you want to get out of b-school.

As for some of the numbers, like % getting jobs and average salary, a school like Haas with a relatively large chunk of people going into non-profit or startups would definitely have a lower employment rate or lower salary than one that supplies mainly to consulting (and formerly banking, before the meltdown).

It would be interesting to see the stats in 2010 when they reflect the financial meltdown. Will Wharton, Chicago, and Columbia remain at the top over Kellogg, Stanford, and Harvard? I'm guessing probably not as much.

No offense but I dont think that is really true. During Microsofts presentation they actually told us that they have more MBAs from Kellogg than from any other school. Google is a big hirer here too, heck facebook came to recruit here this year. Lots of tech companies come here. Non-profit is pretty popular here as well, and clean tech is increasing in popularity. Haas actually seems to place well in GM roles (higher % than Kellogg). I think its going to come down more to location (example look in the mirror Kry haha) and just gut feel. Yes if you want big time consulting then Kellogg is probably the place to go and if you want entrepreneurship then Haas may have the edge...however remember very few people actually go on to start their own business straight out of any school.

If you know your career goals definitely look to see if they recruit, if they dont recruit MBAs check to see if they have MBAs there and where those people come from. Attend admitted students weekends, reach out to students...if you are married/involved think about your significant other and their career chances. It might be much better to be in one location or the other for them...having some friends with wives who havent found jobs (sucky economy) and can tell you that nothing adds more stress to an already terribly stressful time than an unemployed spouse when you are never around. See what areas of concentration schools offer...look at what courses they offer that you definitely would want to take. See if they have clubs related to your professional goals.
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