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Which schools have grade non-disclosure

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Mar 2010, 19:02
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We're more anal than the average bear, is what we mean to say. :roll:
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 08 Mar 2010, 01:01
some of the replies think that gnd is good for career switchers. I happen to think exact the opposite.

First of all, gnd or not, career switchers would still take the necessary courses. If I were planning to switch into banking, would I stop taking finance just because the school doesn't have gnd?!

Secondly, with gnd, a career switcher would have a difficult time proving that he/she is better than an ex-banker. Why? because the ex-banker takes the same, or more likely, more advanced finance courses than him. With GD, a career switcher can at least try to get a good grade and thus obtain an additional metric to prove competence.

Anyway, with or without gnd, companies will find means to compare students, such as GMAT or undergrad GPA. I heard that banks and consulting firms do care about GPA. So wouldn't GND make it harder for them to select candidates and also make the selection process a bit more random? To me that sounds like a slight minus.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 08 Mar 2010, 08:11
Let me put it this way. If you have high honours in your undergrad and/or a high GMAT score (think 700+) that is sufficient evidence that you are smart enough to do the job as a career switcher.

The rest of it is fit which can only be determined at interview time or during networking. Getting these interviews / closed lists is not easy. You actually need to catch the attention of recruiters / alumni / company visitors and proactively keep in touch or try to develop a relationship. Career switching into banking is difficult after the crisis. Tons of ex bankers are in b-school and find it easier to get interviews. Banks are generally risk averse at the moment. So why pick this ex techy/consultant/engineer/industry guy when they have a ready made associate who can do the job from day one ? Flaunting an A+ in corporate finance is not going to help you overcome this hurdle.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2010, 02:51
I've read about some review about the Gnd. The school is good for career switchers but don't really think about it.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2010, 18:34
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I just stumbled across this topic and I honestly think there's an entirely different reason for GND. The top B-schools are competing against each other and the ultimate goal at the end of the day is for students to get jobs with decent salaries. Schools are ranked by these and various other factors, and thus it is definitely not in a school's interest to divulge students' GPAs. For example, let's say that a student at Michigan is an "underperformer" and ends up with a 2.0 GPA, but another student at Notre Dame has a 3.8 GPA. Michigan certainly has an interest in their student beating out the Notre Dame student for a job if they're competing against each other. With no GPA involved, all the interviewer knows is "this guy went to the Ross School of Business at Michigan" and it's generally "ranked" higher than Notre Dame by nearly all publications. Business schools (which are actually businesses themselves) want all of their students to get good jobs (even the slackers) because it makes them look better and brings in more money, better students, etc. I also believe that schools that release GPAs may be inclined to be more lenient with grading because of the reasons I've mentioned. Just my thoughts. What do you think?
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2010, 02:35
WolverineFan wrote:
I just stumbled across this topic and I honestly think there's an entirely different reason for GND. The top B-schools are competing against each other and the ultimate goal at the end of the day is for students to get jobs with decent salaries. Schools are ranked by these and various other factors, and thus it is definitely not in a school's interest to divulge students' GPAs. For example, let's say that a student at Michigan is an "underperformer" and ends up with a 2.0 GPA, but another student at Notre Dame has a 3.8 GPA. Michigan certainly has an interest in their student beating out the Notre Dame student for a job if they're competing against each other. With no GPA involved, all the interviewer knows is "this guy went to the Ross School of Business at Michigan" and it's generally "ranked" higher than Notre Dame by nearly all publications. Business schools (which are actually businesses themselves) want all of their students to get good jobs (even the slackers) because it makes them look better and brings in more money, better students, etc. I also believe that schools that release GPAs may be inclined to be more lenient with grading because of the reasons I've mentioned. Just my thoughts. What do you think?



I agree 100 % with what you are saying, but I believe that another crucial factor was the extremely competitive enviroment in some bschools (like chicago and wharton) that prevented the schools from delivering the "teamwork" and "we also have fan" experience they promised.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2010, 07:01
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That would be the case even if there were GPAs involved, no? Your post would make a lot of sense if GPAs landed b-school grads *jobs*, but that's usually not the case.

WolverineFan wrote:
With no GPA involved, all the interviewer knows is "this guy went to the Ross School of Business at Michigan" and it's generally "ranked" higher than Notre Dame by nearly all publications.


Depends on your definition of lenient, or what you mean by "releasing GPAs." For instance, Stern grades on a A-F scale, yet for instance no more than 25% of students taking a class with the Finance department can get higher than an A-. People have gotten C's in their first semester, and some will get D's in electives this semester, as well. Is this lenient? Not really, it's just a reflection of the effort people put in to class. Most b-school students are pretty smart, hence the overwhelming majority will manage B/B+ grades, GND or not.

WolverineFan wrote:
I also believe that schools that release GPAs may be inclined to be more lenient with grading because of the reasons I've mentioned. Just my thoughts. What do you think?
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2010, 08:05
The incentive for students to get a job argument can be drawn to the extent of "why doesn't everyone get a 4.0 in law school / undergrad?". While the motivation of students and organization of MBA programs is somewhat different from most Graduate degrees, it remains none-the-less an Academic qualification. So all schools mark with forced curves of some regard, reward solid academic performance and generally want their academic faculty treated with respect.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2010, 14:22
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Several valid points in favor of GND have been made on this post but I think the most important one is teamwork. B-school types are generally ambitious and competitive relative to the general population. Having a bunch of them taking similar classes and seeking business-related jobs is a great recipe for cut-throat competition, the type that detracts from teamwork and community. This perhaps explains why schools with reputations for being academically challenging overall (e.g. Booth and Wharton) are fans of GND and the Queen of case studies (packaged BS, imho) and discussion classes (i.e. HBS) can afford to disclose grades.

The true irony of this debate is that the students that are more likely to want grade-disclosure (i.e. the nerdy types that tend to think one's GPA is a truer reflection of one's abilities than real-world career achievement) are the ones that are most likely to lose-out in the recruiting game. A super-high GPA can actually back-fire badly if it is not backed-up by a stellar personality and impressive extracurricular achievements. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, in any business field that actually involves making money in the real world wants to hire a GPA-obsessed teacher's pet. They'll pick the ex-football quarterback with a winning smile and loads of confidence over an academic wunderkid without a second thought (they'll happily ignore the QB's 2.0001 GPA too!!!) That's the real world for you! If you want a genuinely academic experience, go to law school or go get a Ph.d. :)
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2010, 19:18
while i agree with your post's overall sentiment, you are too extreme. there are certainly business fields where a high degree of analytical intelligence and ability (as measured by things like grades in tough courses) is a huge advantage. for example, quant trading in a hedge fund. those types of roles certainly "make money in the real world" and they will hire a nerdier smart person over the 2.0 quarterback.

of course there are also plenty of roles for the 2.0 quarterback, and the bulk of mba recruiting does seek those traits (salesmanship, etc), but i think you are being a little too harsh in your assessment of nerds and their career potential :P
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2010, 23:59
go2bizSkool wrote:
while i agree with your post's overall sentiment, you are too extreme. there are certainly business fields where a high degree of analytical intelligence and ability (as measured by things like grades in tough courses) is a huge advantage. for example, quant trading in a hedge fund. those types of roles certainly "make money in the real world" and they will hire a nerdier smart person over the 2.0 quarterback.

of course there are also plenty of roles for the 2.0 quarterback, and the bulk of mba recruiting does seek those traits (salesmanship, etc), but i think you are being a little too harsh in your assessment of nerds and their career potential :P


Hedge funds don't typically recruit MBAs to do quant trading. They are more likely to recruit students in master's programs for financial engineering and Phd's in heavy quant fields. An MBA is certainly not the best training for a quant trader and the MBAs that do quant-type work at hedge funds usually have a strong pre-MBA background in some quant field (they definitely aren't ex-consultants!)

The summary of my argument here is that there are other graduate programs better suited for those seeking an academics-centered experience. MBA programs are very career-centric; the classes are merely tools to help MBA students get the best jobs possible. :)
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Feb 2011, 05:36
Does anyone know whether Tuck has a grade non disclosure policy? thanks
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 29 Jun 2011, 21:04
I didn't know whether to start a new thread or continue with this one, but this post is more informational than argumentative and contains current information that should be helpful to anyone interested in GND at Top Business schools. This was first posted on our blog at Inside MBA Admissions:


Here is the current list of “Top US” Business schools and whether or not they have GND:



School: Grade Non-Disclosure?

Harvard: No

Stanford: Yes

Booth: Yes

Wharton: No

Columbia: Yes

Tuck: No

Kellogg: No

Sloan: No

Haas: Yes

Fuqua: No

Darden: No

Stern: No

Ross: No

Yale: Yes

Johnson: No

Tepper: Yes

Anderson: No

Kenan-Flagler: No

Goizueta: No



It is important to understand the subtle differences between GND policies in the table above. Recognize that there are two entities at each school, the School itself and the elected Student Council, and both come into play with GND. For example, at Carnegie Mellon (Tepper), the school states: “The COC (career services) prohibits employers and students from discussing Tepper grades during the initial COC facilitated interview”; while at Chicago Booth, a more restrictive policy is caged with the following note: “This policy was adopted by students on October 6, 2000. It is not a policy of Chicago Booth or the University of Chicago”. The difference being that recruiters could technically ask students to disclose grades at Chicago (and students who violate the policy would only face the contempt of the Student Body). Both policies have the same result (GND), however the tone of each is different.



Because of the differences in policies, it is helpful to think about GND as a continuum from “Very GND” to “No GND”. One method for thinking about this has six levels:



1. School sets a policy for GND (e.g. Tepper)
2. School does not have grades, or may use a difficult method for recruiters to understanding them
3. Student Body formally determines GND (common among GND schools)
4. School or Student Body states that it is the student’s choice to disclosure grades to recruiters
5. School drafts a policy essentially saying students are free to release grades to recruiters, but the school will not actually release grades (e.g. Wharton)
6. School releases grades directly to recruiters (unaware of this practice)


For the purpose of the table above, schools with policies in the 1-3 range are classified as GND schools, while those in the 4-6 are classified as non-GND schools. Information for the categorization came from published records of school or student policies (or lack thereof). Since these policies change regularly and there can be subjectivity as to the effectiveness of policy #3 or #4, please feel free to update us with practices at your school.
Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure   [#permalink] 29 Jun 2011, 21:04
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