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Which schools have grade non-disclosure

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Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2010, 08:19
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I was going to ask this question on a couple of school threads, but I figured compiling a list would be beneficial to all.

I only know one school that has this since I have a friend there so I'll start the list with it:

Wharton
Yale SOM
Chicago Booth

Last edited by stopper5 on 07 Jan 2010, 09:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Mar 2010, 10:21
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But no-one ever asks your GPA. They care more about your GMAT if anything. Honest - like rhyme (who will likely tell you the same) - having every academic distinction under the sun has done absolutely nothing for me.

The whole academic challenge and taking on people more experienced is a moot point. If you have any type of desire and self confidence that getting into any top MBA program should require, you should put your head down and run at stuff. You are going to get faced by a lot worse. Why recruit for any different career background when others have experience? Maybe there should be a non-career history disclosure.

Just go forth and do things and live your own life. To hell with anyone knowing or not.

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2010, 11:11
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Here's the rest of the list.

Chicago - strict no disclosure policy
Haas - student vote each year but it is always GND in all recent years, GND for on-campus recruiting only.
Wharton - I guess has a voluntary disclosure policy
Stanford - No official policy, but student body policy is GND. 99% complaince rate among students.
Ross - Same with Haas, you do get distinctions based on grades though



Harvard - has had a grade disclosure policy for students following the class of 2008. HBS apparently has an unorthodox grading system
Kellogg - Grades

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 09 Jan 2010, 19:20
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3underscore wrote:
Having completed an MBA, seen rhyme's comments on his experience of GND, and all the other stuff I just cannot work out why anyone thinks GND is important.

Number of people who have asked me my GPA = 0.


After talking with Stanford students I learned why they don't disclose grades. They want to be able to experiment with different courses, and courses that are not necessarily in their area of expertise such as a mixed course with other disciplines, without being punished for it.

At HBS the grades are disclosed and a good number of students are also put on probation or "voluntarily leave to pursue a different opportunity" if they are at the bottom 10% of the class. As a result, people take much more courses in the areas they are good at to keep their grades, and few career switchers dare to take advanced Finance courses with Wall Street pros.

Given the choice, I'd definitely pick grade non-disclosure, even if I've never had less than a 3.9 gpa.

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Mar 2010, 08:49
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You're certainly able to "experiment" with classes and still receive a grade for them. I belong to the school of thought that your grades mostly pretty accurately reflect the effort you put into a class, so there is no concept of you (and only you) being punished for choosing to do something different you have had no prior experience with. In my opinion, if a class requires some previous knowledge of the subject for you to do well, it will have the appropriate course pre-requisite. Otherwise, most everyone will start on equal footing.

Stern has proper grades (and by that I simply mean an A through F scale) but that hasn't prevented me or my peers from signing up for the classes we want to take, without worrying about the repercussions any single class might have on our respective GPAs. Heck, I will probably get a B/B- on some of the classes I plan to take, but why would that stop me from taking the class if I'm truly interested in it?

Nonetheless, different people will have different opinions. But I will contest any argument that posits that having GND allows for greater freedom in selecting "harder" electives. In fact, I would probably skip class a lot more if I knew my grades were meaningless - but again that's just me! It's completely possible these other GND schools have remarkably disciplined student bodies who don't need the scepter of a "poor" grade looming over their heads in order to ensure they do what is needed to be done.

Like underscore3 said, GND versus having none is probably the biggest non-issue when it comes to your academic experience at any business school.

MBAgirl2010 wrote:
They want to be able to experiment with different courses, and courses that are not necessarily in their area of expertise such as a mixed course with other disciplines, without being punished for it.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2010, 08:40
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add YSOM and Chicago Booth. (I remember rhyme complaining last year about how his godly high GPA can not be seen by recruiters due to GND policy at Booth)

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 10 Jan 2010, 15:03
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I think the picking courses you are good at is a little bit of a strawman - I never really felt drawn to doing that, and took some pretty ridiculous classes and steered clear of things I had seen before.

It really does only take a commitment to actually studying rather than going out drinking all the time, reading the books and actually giving a toss that stops you getting in the bottom 10% of the class. Plus, you probably ought to be focused more on picking classes that feed into your career path (returning to the point that B School is all about career, zero about grades).

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Mar 2010, 09:06
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solaris1 wrote:
You're certainly able to "experiment" with classes and still receive a grade for them. I belong to the school of thought that your grades mostly pretty accurately reflect the effort you put into a class, so there is no concept of you (and only you) being punished for choosing to do something different you have had no prior experience with. In my opinion, if a class requires some previous knowledge of the subject for you to do well, it will have the appropriate course pre-requisite. Otherwise, most everyone will start on equal footing.

Stern has proper grades (and by that I simply mean an A through F scale) but that hasn't prevented me or my peers from signing up for the classes we want to take, without worrying about the repercussions any single class might have on our respective GPAs. Heck, I will probably get a B/B- on some of the classes I plan to take, but why would that stop me from taking the class if I'm truly interested in it?

Nonetheless, different people will have different opinions. But I will contest any argument that posits that having GND allows for greater freedom in selecting "harder" electives. In fact, I would probably skip class a lot more if I knew my grades were meaningless - but again that's just me! It's completely possible these other GND schools have remarkably disciplined student bodies who don't need the scepter of a "poor" grade looming over their heads in order to ensure they do what is needed to be done.

Like underscore3 said, GND versus having none is probably the biggest non-issue when it comes to your academic experience at any business school.

MBAgirl2010 wrote:
They want to be able to experiment with different courses, and courses that are not necessarily in their area of expertise such as a mixed course with other disciplines, without being punished for it.


The challenge is more obvious in schools like HBS that have grading on a curve. If you are a switcher, competing against classmates from Wallstreet in a derivative class, you are likely to get a lower score than if were graded based on effort alone. Furthermore, if you are a career switcher or risk-taker competing with people who have taken safe courses and have the GPA to reflect that, you are hypothetically put at a disadvantage with recruiters.

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Mar 2010, 19:02
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We're more anal than the average bear, is what we mean to say. :roll:
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2010, 18:34
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I just stumbled across this topic and I honestly think there's an entirely different reason for GND. The top B-schools are competing against each other and the ultimate goal at the end of the day is for students to get jobs with decent salaries. Schools are ranked by these and various other factors, and thus it is definitely not in a school's interest to divulge students' GPAs. For example, let's say that a student at Michigan is an "underperformer" and ends up with a 2.0 GPA, but another student at Notre Dame has a 3.8 GPA. Michigan certainly has an interest in their student beating out the Notre Dame student for a job if they're competing against each other. With no GPA involved, all the interviewer knows is "this guy went to the Ross School of Business at Michigan" and it's generally "ranked" higher than Notre Dame by nearly all publications. Business schools (which are actually businesses themselves) want all of their students to get good jobs (even the slackers) because it makes them look better and brings in more money, better students, etc. I also believe that schools that release GPAs may be inclined to be more lenient with grading because of the reasons I've mentioned. Just my thoughts. What do you think?
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2010, 07:01
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That would be the case even if there were GPAs involved, no? Your post would make a lot of sense if GPAs landed b-school grads *jobs*, but that's usually not the case.

WolverineFan wrote:
With no GPA involved, all the interviewer knows is "this guy went to the Ross School of Business at Michigan" and it's generally "ranked" higher than Notre Dame by nearly all publications.


Depends on your definition of lenient, or what you mean by "releasing GPAs." For instance, Stern grades on a A-F scale, yet for instance no more than 25% of students taking a class with the Finance department can get higher than an A-. People have gotten C's in their first semester, and some will get D's in electives this semester, as well. Is this lenient? Not really, it's just a reflection of the effort people put in to class. Most b-school students are pretty smart, hence the overwhelming majority will manage B/B+ grades, GND or not.

WolverineFan wrote:
I also believe that schools that release GPAs may be inclined to be more lenient with grading because of the reasons I've mentioned. Just my thoughts. What do you think?
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2010, 14:22
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Several valid points in favor of GND have been made on this post but I think the most important one is teamwork. B-school types are generally ambitious and competitive relative to the general population. Having a bunch of them taking similar classes and seeking business-related jobs is a great recipe for cut-throat competition, the type that detracts from teamwork and community. This perhaps explains why schools with reputations for being academically challenging overall (e.g. Booth and Wharton) are fans of GND and the Queen of case studies (packaged BS, imho) and discussion classes (i.e. HBS) can afford to disclose grades.

The true irony of this debate is that the students that are more likely to want grade-disclosure (i.e. the nerdy types that tend to think one's GPA is a truer reflection of one's abilities than real-world career achievement) are the ones that are most likely to lose-out in the recruiting game. A super-high GPA can actually back-fire badly if it is not backed-up by a stellar personality and impressive extracurricular achievements. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, in any business field that actually involves making money in the real world wants to hire a GPA-obsessed teacher's pet. They'll pick the ex-football quarterback with a winning smile and loads of confidence over an academic wunderkid without a second thought (they'll happily ignore the QB's 2.0001 GPA too!!!) That's the real world for you! If you want a genuinely academic experience, go to law school or go get a Ph.d. :)
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2010, 09:56
updated. Thanks nink.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2010, 11:51
Like Rhyme, I had no problem giving out my GPA. Fortunately for me I had no restriction on me doing so.

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 08 Jan 2010, 05:59
GoBruins wrote:
Here's the rest of the list.

Chicago - strict no disclosure policy
Haas - student vote each year but it is always GND in all recent years, GND for on-campus recruiting only.
Wharton - I guess has a voluntary disclosure policy
Stanford - No official policy, but student body policy is GND. 99% complaince rate among students.
Ross - Same with Haas, you do get distinctions based on grades though



Harvard - has had a grade disclosure policy for students following the class of 2008. HBS apparently has an unorthodox grading system
Kellogg - Grades


Thanks GoBruins! +1
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 08 Jan 2010, 07:03
Having completed an MBA, seen rhyme's comments on his experience of GND, and all the other stuff I just cannot work out why anyone thinks GND is important.

Number of people who have asked me my GPA = 0.

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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 09 Jan 2010, 14:38
LBS also has GND - however I agree with 3under - so far grades have been the last thing on people's minds (even during networking events).
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 09 Jan 2010, 19:55
MBAgirl2010 wrote:
3underscore wrote:
Having completed an MBA, seen rhyme's comments on his experience of GND, and all the other stuff I just cannot work out why anyone thinks GND is important.

Number of people who have asked me my GPA = 0.


After talking with Stanford students I learned why they don't disclose grades. They want to be able to experiment with different courses, and courses that are not necessarily in their area of expertise such as a mixed course with other disciplines, without being punished for it.

At HBS the grades are disclosed and a good number of students are also put on probation or "voluntarily leave to pursue a different opportunity" if they are at the bottom 10% of the class. As a result, people take much more courses in the areas they are good at to keep their grades, and few career switchers dare to take advanced Finance courses with Wall Street pros.

Given the choice, I'd definitely pick grade non-disclosure, even if I've never had less than a 3.9 gpa.


Very interesting summary of the difference, MBAgirl, thanks.

As a reasonably competitive person, grade disclosure motivates me to perform better (to a limit of course - my undergrad GPA could have been higher). That said, I want an MBA in part to learn the quantitative skills that are missing from my background. I fully expect that my grades in accounting are not going to reflect the effort I put in; I don't want to be penalized for having the courage to challenge myself.

Congrats to those of you who have been rocking the high end of the GPA scale, though.
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 10 Jan 2010, 06:30
I have good GPA as well, and I believe I can do well in my MBA. However, I feel one the main benefits of GND is what MBAgirl2010 alluded to - taking courses out of your comfort zone especially if you are a career switcher. Additionally, grades aren't everything and I would like the pressure off my back so that I can focus on networking and securing a job!
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Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2010, 15:36
Do Tepper Duke & cornell have GND policies
Re: Which schools have grade non-disclosure   [#permalink] 06 Mar 2010, 15:36
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