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Re: Working together at their constant rates, pumps X and Y can fill an [#permalink]
Bunuel wrote:
javzprobz wrote:
Hi everyone,

I do have a specific problem with THE SOLUTION THAT BUNNEL HAS PROVIDED (reveal the first spoiler to see Bunnel's solution and my analysis of it) for this question. Let's first take a look at the question, then I'll explain my problem.

Working together at their constant rates, pumps X and Y can fill an empty pool to capacity in 1/3 hours. How many minutes does it take pump Y, working alone, to fill the pool?

(1) The capacity of the pool is 900 gallons.
(2) The rate of Pump X is 30 gallons per minute.

Open the spoiler to read my problem with the solution that Bunnel has provided for this question:
I do understand that we need both statements together in order to solve the question since statement 2 just tells us that pump X can fill 30 gallons per minute and we don't how many gallons the job actually is, thus we need statement 2 as well in order to answer the question. Now for the sake of solving a DS question, it's enough to pick answer choice C and move on since we have enough information to answer the question. However, for the sake of discussing the solution that Bunnel has provided, let's take a look at his solution: "Rate*Time=Job time = 1/3 hrs = 20 minutes so (x+y)*20=work now statement 1 gives us: work=900 and statement 2: x=30. So combining statement 1 and 2, we can solve for y since we have (30+y)*20=900, which gives us y=15. Now, my problem is that I solved the problem the way that some of us used to do (also explained in GMATCLUB Math Book, work problem section). I initially set the equation 1/x+1/y=1/20, after reading the question stem (x and y refer to time that pump x and pump y respectively take to do 1 unit of the job). Then I read statement 1 and noticed that it is insufficient, since it just tells us about how much the work is. And read statement 2, which also is insufficient since now we don't how many gallons the work is. But combining statement 1 and 2, I got to this point that pump x can do 1 unit of the job in 30 minutes (900 gallons/30 minutes=30 gallons/1 minute or in other words 1 unit of job/30 minutes). So now I have 1/30 + 1/y = 1/20, and solving this would give me y=60 minutes. Now, why is my answer to how many minutes pump y takes to do the job alone different than Bunnel's to this question? Is there something wrong with my solution or how I solved the question? I would appreciate your help!


POSTING OFFICIAL SOLUTION:

Working together at their constant rates, pumps X and Y can fill an empty pool to capacity in \(\frac{1}{3}\) hours. How many minutes does it take pump Y, working alone, to fill the pool?

\(rate*time=job\).

We are told that \((x+y)*20=c\), where \(x\) is the rate of pump X in gallons per minute, \(y\) is the rate of pump Y in gallons per minute and \(c\) is the capacity of the pool in gallons.

The question asks to find the value of \(y\).

(1) The capacity of the pool is 900 gallons. \(c=900\), hence we have that \((x+y)*20=900\), so \(x+y=45\). Not sufficient.

(2) The rate of Pump X is 30 gallons per minute. \(x=30\), hence we have that \((30+y)*20=c\). We have two unknowns and only one equation. Not sufficient. Consider this if \(c=1,000\), then \(y=20\) but if \(c=900\), then \(y=15\).

(1)+(2) \(x=30\) and \(x+y=45\). Solving gives \(y=15\). Sufficient.


Answer: C

Hi Bunuel,

Though it makes no difference onto the answer, you said that the question asks us to find the "rate (y)", but that's not the case. Question says, "How many minutes does it take pump Y, working alone, to fill the pool?" Thus, it not the "rate" but the time Y takes alone to fill the pool.
One can find time through rate undoubtedly, but that's not what question has asked us.

If it were a PS question, 60 minutes not 15 would have been the right answer. Isn't it?
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Re: Working together at their constant rates, pumps X and Y can fill an [#permalink]
KarishmaB - would love to see how you would tackle this one.

I can relate to the concept.

I also find the connection between the rate and work interesting here
Based on the stem the time is 1/3rd of an hour, so our rate should be 3 pools/hour.

Then in St 1, we get the size of the pool as 900 gallons, but when I divide this by the rate 900/3, I get 300. This is obv not correct, because I guess the work here, and the volume of the pool are two different concepts, but would be great if you can detangle this and how such questions should be dealth with, especially when working with a rate-time-work matrix?

Thanks
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Re: Working together at their constant rates, pumps X and Y can fill an [#permalink]
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javzprobz wrote:
Working together at their constant rates, pumps X and Y can fill an empty pool to capacity in 1/3 hours. How many minutes does it take pump Y, working alone, to fill the pool?

(1) The capacity of the pool is 900 gallons.
(2) The rate of Pump X is 30 gallons per minute.


Let's see the information we have with respect to the quantities we know: Rate, Time, Work

Time taken together = 1/3 hr = 20 mins (I will prefer to work with 20 mins here because the question is asking the time in minutes and the statement 2 provides rate is mins)

We need the time taken by Y alone.

(1) The capacity of the pool is 900 gallons.

This is the capacity of the pool i.e. the work that has to be done. I can say that work done = 1 pool or I can say that work done = 900 gallons. They both represent the same thing in different units.
Now I know the work that has to be done in different units i.e. 900 gallons. From the question stem, I knew that the work to be done is 1 pool.
This means that their rate together was either 1/(1/3) = 3 pools/hr
or it can be written as 900/20 = 45 gallons/min
They both represent the same rate (of both pumps working together)
I don't know the rate of pump X so I cannot find the rate of pump Y. Not sufficient alone.

(2) The rate of Pump X is 30 gallons per minute.

Rate of pump X = 30 gallons/min but I still don't know the rate of pump Y because these units are different from the units of pool/hr that the question gives us. Since I don't know the equivalency of pool and gallons, I cannot convert one rate to another.
I don't know the combined rate in terms of gallons/min so I cannot find the rate of pump Y. Not sufficient alone.


Using both statements together,
We know that combined rate is 45 gallons/min i.e. both pumps together are putting in 45 gallons of water in one min. But pump X is putting in 30 gallons every min. So pump Y must be putting in the other 15 gallons per min.
Rate of pump Y = 15 gallons/min.

Then if I had to find the time taken by pump Y alone, I simply do
Time = work/rate = 900 gallons/15 gallons per min = 60 mins
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Re: Working together at their constant rates, pumps X and Y can fill an [#permalink]
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