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Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki

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Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki [#permalink] New post 25 Apr 2013, 18:37
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Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be the world's first novel.

(A) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be
(B) Shikibu in the manner of a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji as
(C) Shikibu, a fictionalized accounting for political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji
(D) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, The Tale of Genji is considered by literary historians to be
(E) Shikibu, The Tale of Genji is a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court which literary historians consider to be


IMO -- there's no right answer in any of these choices. Terrible question.
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 25 Apr 2013, 18:55
Indeed its terrible.

A,B,and C are clearly wrong ==> modifier issue
D and E are wrong because of wrong idiom ==> consider to be

IMO --> all answer choices are INcorrect
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 25 Apr 2013, 22:01
forzajuventus wrote:
Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be the world's first novel.

(A) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be
(B) Shikibu in the manner of a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji as
(C) Shikibu, a fictionalized accounting for political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji
(D) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, The Tale of Genji is considered by literary historians to be
(E) Shikibu, The Tale of Genji is a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court which literary historians consider to be


IMO -- there's no right answer in any of these choices. Terrible question.


Its a terrible question.....here all answer are wrong.By the way how D can be the answer.in D here is idiom problem.....consider .........to be is wrong idiom
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 25 Apr 2013, 23:08
Hi guys, D is correct.

You may think idiom "consider.... to be" is wrong, but it's not. It's RARELY used in real GMAT, in real GMAT, we're better off to stick with "consider X Y". (You can refer to Manhattan SC Gmat, idiom "consider X to be Y" is a suspect case, not wrong.)

However, in the passive voice sentence, idiom "X is considered by Y to be Z" is acceptable.

Hope it helps.

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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2013, 00:24
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(A) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be –A very obvious modification error. ; After the comma (court), the Tale of Genji, should come

(B) Shikibu in the manner of a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji as --- same as in A

(C) Shikibu, a fictionalized accounting for political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji--------Same as in A and B

(D) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, The Tale of Genji is considered by literary historians to be --- In spite of the - to be – controversy, the best, I believe.

(E) Shikibu, The Tale of Genji is a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court which literary historians consider to be --- What does which( leave alone the absence of comma before –which- ) modify: the Court. A horrible modification that compares the court to a novel

It is natural to get upset when we are forced to use consider to be in the place of just consider; But if the choices have unpardonable grammar errors, you might pass the idiomatic dilemma and cling on to a choice that does not have such a flagrant blunder. That way, IMO, D is passable as the best among the not so palatable.

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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2013, 04:48
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daagh wrote:
(A) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be –A very obvious modification error. ; After the comma (court), the Tale of Genji, should come

(B) Shikibu in the manner of a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji as --- same as in A

(C) Shikibu, a fictionalized accounting for political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji--------Same as in A and B

(D) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, The Tale of Genji is considered by literary historians to be --- In spite of the - to be – controversy, the best, I believe.

(E) Shikibu, The Tale of Genji is a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court which literary historians consider to be --- What does which( leave alone the absence of comma before –which- ) modify: the Court. A horrible modification that compares the court to a novel

It is natural to get upset when we are forced to use consider to be in the place of just consider; But if the choices have unpardonable grammar errors, you might pass the idiomatic dilemma and cling on to a choice that does not have such a flagrant blunder. That way, IMO, D is passable as the best among the not so palatable.


Do we then have order of priority for errors like we have it in quant for mathematical operators?
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2013, 05:37
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May be priority is not so explicitly stated, but, it is a natural process. For example, a pronoun ambiguity is sometimes ignored by the GMAT; similarly, punctuation is not a great concern form GMAT. But still they are mistakes. CAn we cling on to them? In the given case, if we do not pardon the idiom aspect, the problem isn’t worth testing. That is why I said taht since it is not a GMAT question, let's at least practise other errors.

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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2013, 06:52
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anilisanil wrote:
Do we then have order of priority for errors like we have it in quant for mathematical operators?

Normally GMAC prefers the following:
Correctness > Clarity > Concision

First priority is filter out grammatical mistakes.
Second priority is to check for ambiguity and redundancy.
Third to check for short and sweet option.
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2013, 07:08
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forzajuventus wrote:
Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be the world's first novel.

(A) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be
(B) Shikibu in the manner of a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji as
(C) Shikibu, a fictionalized accounting for political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji
(D) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, The Tale of Genji is considered by literary historians to be
(E) Shikibu, The Tale of Genji is a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court which literary historians consider to be


IMO -- there's no right answer in any of these choices. Terrible question.


AS noted by everyone, none of the option is "right" but D is the "best" of the lot. I guess daagh provided the best and to the point explanation.

However, if the question is actually taken from Kaplan, it must have been a very old version. The reason GMAC comes out with a new version of OG is that it deprecates some kinds of questions with time. "consider to be" is deprecated and will never appear on GMAT now. In fact, if you consider OG13, there are hardly any idiom questions. This is designed so that GMAT favors non-natives as well. Idioms come naturally to native speakers but not non-natives.

So I won't stress too much about "consider X to be Y" vs "consider X Y".

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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2013, 09:00
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Sometimes there is the tendency on this board to consider a question terrible or not well written because:

- do not understand the question itself

- there is a lack of truly comprehension of the same.

- are followed the thoughts of others without thinking on your own, critically.

As such, I do not see nothing bad with it. Moreover, I see it as a good question maybe 650 level to practise and a bit tricky.

We have a dependet clause (indeed very long) and a indipendent clause to follow.

Not wrong with that, taking it with a grain of salt

regards

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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2013, 13:25
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carcass wrote:
Sometimes there is the tendency on this board to consider a question terrible or not well written because:

- do not understand the question itself

- there is a lack of truly comprehension of the same.

- are followed the thoughts of others without thinking on your own, critically.

As such, I do not see nothing bad with it. Moreover, I see it as a good question maybe 650 level to practise and a bit tricky.

We have a dependet clause (indeed very long) and a indipendent clause to follow.

Not wrong with that, taking it with a grain of salt

regards


I disagree. Barring the blatant idiomatic error, the other errors in the other answer choices are pretty easy to spot, and I'm sure most people who answered this incorrectly feel the same. The main issue here is the debatable nature of the OA. From what I've seen, idioms in the GMAT world are black and white -- either they are used correctly or incorrectly. While there might be subjectivity in conciseness, diction, or style, there is no subjectivity to idioms in the GMAT world.

In response to your point: "- are followed the thoughts of others without thinking on your own, critically." -- if I had the liberty to critically think on my own on the GMAT, I would create a choice "F" and correct the idiom error. I don't know about you, but if the GMAC tells me that the sky is red, then I sure as hell am going to answer that the sky is red on the GMAT; and in the OG problems I've seen, the GMAC has established that "consider" is NOT followed by "to be".
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki [#permalink] New post 09 May 2013, 16:33
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This type of question is uncommon and makes some test takers feel uncomfortable. You may encounter "consider x to be y" when the sentence is in passive form or when there are many words between x and y. In those cases, "to be" can remove ambiguity in the sentence. I should stress, however, that my explanation does not represent a concrete rule.

Again, though, this is a rare type of question. The best course of action is to remind yourself to choose the best answer choice available. And in this case, the best option is D.
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shiki [#permalink] New post 09 May 2013, 19:24
anilisanil wrote:
daagh wrote:
(A) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be –A very obvious modification error. ; After the comma (court), the Tale of Genji, should come

(B) Shikibu in the manner of a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji as --- same as in A

(C) Shikibu, a fictionalized accounting for political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji--------Same as in A and B

(D) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, The Tale of Genji is considered by literary historians to be --- In spite of the - to be – controversy, the best, I believe.

(E) Shikibu, The Tale of Genji is a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court which literary historians consider to be --- What does which( leave alone the absence of comma before –which- ) modify: the Court. A horrible modification that compares the court to a novel

It is natural to get upset when we are forced to use consider to be in the place of just consider; But if the choices have unpardonable grammar errors, you might pass the idiomatic dilemma and cling on to a choice that does not have such a flagrant blunder. That way, IMO, D is passable as the best among the not so palatable.


Do we then have order of priority for errors like we have it in quant for mathematical operators?



As a matter of fact , in this particular question , we do have a order of priority for errors in Sc too , esp like the one in this particular question.
1. A,B and C are outright wrong , cos of the modifier issue .
2. The usage of "which" in option E has no antecedent and hence incorrect.

Now as far as the usage of "considered to be" is concerned , this is a bit of a debatable issue . But in cases like this question , where other options clearly commit errors that cannot be debated , hold on to usages such as "considered to be" , rather than just eliminating them based on this usage.
I read it somewhere that , sometimes when you omit the "to be" in "considered by" , it can create confusion . And using "to be" in such scenario makes it clear.
eg : Tom cruise is considered by producers better than Brad .
The above sentence has it's share of ambiguity when it is not accompanied by "to be".

Tom cruise is considered by producers to be better than Brad .
makes it clear that Tom is considered better than Brad.

So , the take away from this question , I guess , would be to look for clear cut errors first . And if there are two grammatically error free options and one has "considered " and the other "considered to be ", in such a case , go ahead and pick the one that does not have "considered to be" ( cos idiomatically "considered" is superior to "considered to be"). But not to rule of the option in the first go , just cos it has a idiom that doesnt fall in our correct idiom usage list. Idioms are sometimes pardonable when compared with grammatical errors.
But in this particular problem , all four options are clearly wrong and hence D is the best of all.

HTH
Jyothi

Last edited by gmacforjyoab on 09 May 2013, 19:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki [#permalink] New post 09 May 2013, 19:34
It fascinates me, when reading responses to questions like these, how much of an unfair advantage I have by being a native english speaker.

"considered to be" is completely idiomatically correct.

"considered by many to be" is also an extremely common phrase and completely idiomatically correct. It didn't even register as a possible reason for invalidating option D when I read it.
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki [#permalink] New post 09 May 2013, 19:55
dave785 wrote:
It fascinates me, when reading responses to questions like these, how much of an unfair advantage I have by being a native english speaker.

"considered to be" is completely idiomatically correct.

"considered by many to be" is also an extremely common phrase and completely idiomatically correct. It didn't even register as a possible reason for invalidating option D when I read it.


Unfortunately , as far as GMAT is concerned , it is safe to play by the rule as opposed to ear . There are lot of constructions that seem perfectly fine in day to day usage, for most of them here , but the GMAT considers them wrong. ( eg - "Plan On" - I am planning on meeting them today . Sounds perfectly ok . we use "Plan on" more often than "Plan to" ( which is correct). But GMAT considers it wrong. So safe bet is to rely less on ear and more on the rules. Unfortunately it is GMAC's play ground and we gotta follow their rules.

Below is a post from one of the manhattan gmat tutors on this idiom . Thought it might help.

you could use all three in a non-GMAT context. It's risky to use the words "always" and "never" in any explanation of idioms!

However, our official GMAT stance is:
RIGHT: considers X Y (e.g. I consider her a friend.)
SUSPECT: considers X to be Y (e.g. The judge considers the law to be unconstitutional.)
WRONG: considers X as Y. (e.g. The judge considers the law as (being)unconstitutional.)

The exceptions that would justify "as" are too rare and difficult for the GMAT to risk testing. There would almost certainly be some other grammar issues that would allow you select the right answer, but if not, play it safe and pick "consider X Y."
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki [#permalink] New post 09 May 2013, 20:11
Isnt there always going to be an answer in a GMAT question. That is why i chose the answer to be C cause i cudnt figure out which one it could be
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Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki [#permalink] New post 30 May 2013, 17:09
forzajuventus wrote:
Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be the world's first novel.

(A) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji to be
(B) Shikibu in the manner of a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji as
(C) Shikibu, a fictionalized accounting for political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, literary historians consider The Tale of Genji
(D) Shikibu as a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court, The Tale of Genji is considered by literary historians to be
(E) Shikibu, The Tale of Genji is a fictionalized account of political and romantic intrigue in the Japanese imperial court which literary historians consider to be


IMO -- there's no right answer in any of these choices. Terrible question.


After warm the thing being describe should come. Hence eliminate A,B and C. In E the use of which is wrong. Which is referring too - The Tale of Genji and it's very far away from the modifier which....... Not a clear and crisp as the GMAT likes it. Hence D.
Re: Written in the early eleventh century by Lady Murasaki   [#permalink] 30 May 2013, 17:09
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