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Yolanda: Gaining access to computers without authorization

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Yolanda: Gaining access to computers without authorization [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 09:10
00:00
A
B
C
D
E

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(N/A)

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0% (00:00) correct 0% (00:00) wrong based on 0 sessions
Yolanda: Gaining access to computers without
authorization and manipulating the data and
programs they contain is comparable to joyriding
in stolen cars; both involve breaking into private
property and treating it recklessly. Joyriding,
however, is the more dangerous crime because it
physically endangers people, whereas only
intellectual property is harmed in the case of
computer crimes.
Arjun: I disagree! For example, unauthorized use of
medical records systems in hospitals could
damage data systems on which human lives
depend, and therefore computer crimes also
cause physical harm to people.

The reasoning in Arjun’s response is flawed because he
(A) fails to maintain a distinction made in Yolanda’s
argument
(B) denies Yolanda’s conclusion without providing
evidence against it
(C) relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he
has only shown to be possible
(D) mistakes something that leads to his conclusion
for something that is necessary for his
conclusion
(E) uses as evidence a phenomenon that is
inconsistent with his own conclusion
Director
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 10:38
I think it's A. Joyriding causes DIRECT physical harm, accessing computers and manipulating data cause harm to intellectual property that can potentially cause harm to someone's physical health (INDIRECT physical harm).
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 10:45
IMO D
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haveaniceday

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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 10:57
I get A as well.

The act of joy riding can hurt someone.

The act of of computer hacking can't hurt anyone (unless you count carpal tunnel). The result of the act however can hurt someone. Arjun fails to see this distinction and implies computer hacking is as dangerous as joyriding.
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 11:07
I think its C

{(C) relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he has only shown to be possible}

Arjuna is disagreeing with an example that unauthorized use of medical records systems in hospitals could damage data systems on which human lives depend, and therefore computer crimes also cause physical harm to people.

But he is missing the main part "Gaining access to computers without authorization and manipulating the data "

He is actually relying on a fact that getting a computer access will allow you to damage the data system.

PLease comment if I am thinking too far!!!
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 11:08
BTW ... what is the correct answer?
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 13:14
durgesh79 wrote:
Yolanda: Gaining access to computers without
authorization and manipulating the data and
programs they contain is comparable to joyriding
in stolen cars; both involve breaking into private
property and treating it recklessly. Joyriding,
however, is the more dangerous crime because it
physically endangers people, whereas only
intellectual property is harmed in the case of
computer crimes.
Arjun: I disagree! For example, unauthorized use of
medical records systems in hospitals could
damage data systems on which human lives
depend, and therefore computer crimes also
cause physical harm to people.

The reasoning in Arjun’s response is flawed because he
(A) fails to maintain a distinction made in Yolanda’s
argument
(B) denies Yolanda’s conclusion without providing
evidence against it
(C) relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he
has only shown to be possible
(D) mistakes something that leads to his conclusion
for something that is necessary for his
conclusion
(E) uses as evidence a phenomenon that is
inconsistent with his own conclusion



LOL, this seems to be a tough question. I came up with E. The argument is about danger from joyriding and danger from unauthorized use of computer. The second guy said that "unauthorized use of medical records systems in hospitals could damage data systems on which human lives depend.."

Medical records may or may be not related to computers. These records might be documented in paper and some bad guys get an access to them. This is a big hole in his argument. He brings new topics to the argument that is not relevant and he use this premise to come up with his conclusion.


Therefore, I choose (E).
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 17:42
devilmirror wrote:
durgesh79 wrote:
Yolanda: Gaining access to computers without
authorization and manipulating the data and
programs they contain is comparable to joyriding
in stolen cars; both involve breaking into private
property and treating it recklessly. Joyriding,
however, is the more dangerous crime because it
physically endangers people, whereas only
intellectual property is harmed in the case of
computer crimes.
Arjun: I disagree! For example, unauthorized use of
medical records systems in hospitals could
damage data systems on which human lives
depend, and therefore computer crimes also
cause physical harm to people.

The reasoning in Arjun’s response is flawed because he
(A) fails to maintain a distinction made in Yolanda’s
argument
(B) denies Yolanda’s conclusion without providing
evidence against it
(C) relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he
has only shown to be possible
(D) mistakes something that leads to his conclusion
for something that is necessary for his
conclusion
(E) uses as evidence a phenomenon that is
inconsistent with his own conclusion



LOL, this seems to be a tough question. I came up with E. The argument is about danger from joyriding and danger from unauthorized use of computer. The second guy said that "unauthorized use of medical records systems in hospitals could damage data systems on which human lives depend.."

Medical records may or may be not related to computers. These records might be documented in paper and some bad guys get an access to them. This is a big hole in his argument. He brings new topics to the argument that is not relevant and he use this premise to come up with his conclusion.


Therefore, I choose (E).


He says medical record systems not medical records. He's clearly referring to a computer system that has medical records. He argues that damaging these systems could hurt people just like joyriding could. For example someone could change the information about allergies in the system and a doctor could give medicine to someone who is allergic and get sick or worse die. But he fails to see the distinction that the act of joyriding can kill someone directly whereas the the act of hacking the medical system can't.
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 21:23
gixxer1000 wrote:
devilmirror wrote:
durgesh79 wrote:

He says medical record systems not medical records. He's clearly referring to a computer system that has medical records. He argues that damaging these systems could hurt people just like joyriding could. For example someone could change the information about allergies in the system and a doctor could give medicine to someone who is allergic and get sick or worse die. But he fails to see the distinction that the act of joyriding can kill someone directly whereas the the act of hacking the medical system can't.


I will argue that medical record systems may not be related to computer system. People can build medical record systems based entirely on paper filing systems.

Am I thinking too much?
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 22:13
Guys, this is a tricky one. OA is neither A nor E. :wink:
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 22:22
durgesh79 wrote:
Guys, this is a tricky one. OA is neither A nor E. :wink:


Is it B

Ajun doesn't speak about joyriding.
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 22:50
alpha_plus_gamma wrote:
durgesh79 wrote:
Guys, this is a tricky one. OA is neither A nor E. :wink:


Is it B

Ajun doesn't speak about joyriding.


No. Its not B.

I have OA, but i dont have OE. Appriciate if someone can clarify this CR.
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 23:04
durgesh79 wrote:
Yolanda: Gaining access to computers without
authorization and manipulating the data and
programs they contain is comparable to joyriding
in stolen cars; both involve breaking into private
property and treating it recklessly. Joyriding,
however, is the more dangerous crime because it
physically endangers people, whereas only
intellectual property is harmed in the case of
computer crimes.
Arjun: I disagree! For example, unauthorized use of
medical records systems in hospitals could
damage data systems on which human lives
depend, and therefore computer crimes also
cause physical harm to people.

The reasoning in Arjun’s response is flawed because he
(A) fails to maintain a distinction made in Yolanda’s
argument
(B) denies Yolanda’s conclusion without providing
evidence against it
(C) relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he
has only shown to be possible
(D) mistakes something that leads to his conclusion
for something that is necessary for his
conclusion
(E) uses as evidence a phenomenon that is
inconsistent with his own conclusion


D

mistakes something(joyriding) that leads to his conclusion for something (causes physical harm)that is necessary for his conclusion((causes physical harm)
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 23:11
OA is C.
Its an LSAT problem.
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2008, 23:33
durgesh79 wrote:
OA is C.
Its an LSAT problem.


Where di you find this gem ?;-)

I have no idea what on earth this means - relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he
has only shown to be possible
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 04 Jul 2008, 00:27
goalsnr wrote:

Where di you find this gem ?;-)

I have no idea what on earth this means - relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he
has only shown to be possible


same here. After knowing that C is the answer we can put our thoughts around it.... but i couldnt do it before.
As i said its an LSAT problem taken from sample LSAT paper tests. i feel they are good for CR practice.
follow the link if interested
http://lsac.org/LSAT/lsat-prep-materials.asp
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 04 Jul 2008, 06:57
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durgesh79 wrote:
goalsnr wrote:

Where di you find this gem ?;-)

I have no idea what on earth this means - relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he
has only shown to be possible


same here. After knowing that C is the answer we can put our thoughts around it.... but i couldnt do it before.
As i said its an LSAT problem taken from sample LSAT paper tests. i feel they are good for CR practice.
follow the link if interested
http://lsac.org/LSAT/lsat-prep-materials.asp


Ok lets try again . Lets do some reverse engineering -try to prove C can be correct

Yolanda:1. Joyriding,however, is the more dangerous crime because it physically endangers people, whereas only
2. intellectual property is harmed in the case of computer crimes.
Arjun: I disagree!
- For example, unauthorized use of medical records systems in hospitals could damage data systems on which human lives depend
- therefore computer crimes also cause physical harm to people.

The reasoning in Arjun’s response is flawed because he
(C) relies on the actuality of a phenomenon that he has only shown to be possible


Yolanda says joyriding can cause physical harm and computer crimes can only cause harm to intellectual property
Arjun disagrees to Yolanda's idea about computer crime and physical harm and provides a scenario where data ca be manipulated and the corrupted data can cause can affect the medical systems/equipment and affect the patients. In his arguments he makes assumption that the data is important to keep the patients alive.Not all patients are dependent on such systems critical .For some patients the data may be a record of body status -BP, weight, height, prescription history - factors not very So when he replies to Yolanda he actually believe the scenario can happen. This is the flaw in his reasoning. Patients may /may not be hooked to Medical data may contain
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 04 Jul 2008, 07:20
Now lets see how to prove other choices wrong.

The reasoning in Arjun’s response is flawed because he
(A) fails to maintain a distinction made in Yolanda’s
argument
>>>Yolanda - joyriding - physical damage, computer crimes- harm to IP,no physical harm
Arjun - computer crimes ->physical harm

False.There is a distiction. Both A and Y talk about computer crimes and have different perspectives about what computer crime can affect.

(B) denies Yolanda’s conclusion without providing
evidence against it
>>>False.Arjun gives an example to prove his case.

(D) mistakes something that leads to his conclusion for something that is necessary for his conclusion
>>>mistakes something that leads to his conclusion for something that is necessary for his conclusion
mistakes X for Y
X - computer crimes cause medical manipulation
Y - medical manipulation can cause physical harm

(E) uses as evidence a phenomenon that is inconsistent with his own conclusion
>>>evidence - example to prove medical data can cause physical harm
conclusion - computer crimes can cause physical harm
False - evidence is consistent with the conclusion

Let me know what you think.
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 04 Jul 2008, 07:37
goalsnr wrote:
Now lets see how to prove other choices wrong.

The reasoning in Arjun’s response is flawed because he
(A) fails to maintain a distinction made in Yolanda’s
argument
>>>Yolanda - joyriding - physical damage, computer crimes- harm to IP,no physical harm
Arjun - computer crimes ->physical harm

False.There is a distiction. Both A and Y talk about computer crimes and have different perspectives about what computer crime can affect.

(B) denies Yolanda’s conclusion without providing
evidence against it
>>>False.Arjun gives an example to prove his case.

(D) mistakes something that leads to his conclusion for something that is necessary for his conclusion
>>>mistakes something that leads to his conclusion for something that is necessary for his conclusion
mistakes X for Y
X - computer crimes cause medical manipulation
Y - medical manipulation can cause physical harm

(E) uses as evidence a phenomenon that is inconsistent with his own conclusion
>>>evidence - example to prove medical data can cause physical harm
conclusion - computer crimes can cause physical harm
False - evidence is consistent with the conclusion

Let me know what you think.



Thanks for the efforts, I can think this way on real exam :)
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Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun [#permalink] New post 04 Jul 2008, 08:22
goalsnr wrote:
Now lets see how to prove other choices wrong.

The reasoning in Arjun’s response is flawed because he
(A) fails to maintain a distinction made in Yolanda’s
argument
>>>Yolanda - joyriding - physical damage, computer crimes- harm to IP,no physical harm
Arjun - computer crimes ->physical harm

False.There is a distiction. Both A and Y talk about computer crimes and have different perspectives about what computer crime can affect.

(B) denies Yolanda’s conclusion without providing
evidence against it
>>>False.Arjun gives an example to prove his case.

(D) mistakes something that leads to his conclusion for something that is necessary for his conclusion
>>>mistakes something that leads to his conclusion for something that is necessary for his conclusion
mistakes X for Y
X - computer crimes cause medical manipulation
Y - medical manipulation can cause physical harm

(E) uses as evidence a phenomenon that is inconsistent with his own conclusion
>>>evidence - example to prove medical data can cause physical harm
conclusion - computer crimes can cause physical harm
False - evidence is consistent with the conclusion

Let me know what you think.


Good explanation... Kudos +1.

Another point against D. I dont think Arjun is mistaking X for Y. His reasoning is flawed becuase of other reasons but he is not making a mistake in putting his conclusion.
Re: CR Yolanda and Arjun   [#permalink] 04 Jul 2008, 08:22
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