It is currently 17 Nov 2017, 20:31

Close

GMAT Club Daily Prep

Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

Close

Request Expert Reply

Confirm Cancel

Events & Promotions

Events & Promotions in June
Open Detailed Calendar

660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do)

  new topic post reply Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  
Author Message
TAGS:

Hide Tags

2 KUDOS received
Intern
Intern
avatar
B
Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 24

Kudos [?]: 7 [2], given: 21

GMAT ToolKit User
660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do) [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 Sep 2017, 00:10
2
This post received
KUDOS
3
This post was
BOOKMARKED
Hey everyone, just got done with my GMAT on the 4th of September and I thought I'd write out a quick summary of how it went, along with some thoughts about my preparation experience. I'm writing this for catharsis, but hopefully you guys will learn from some of my screw ups. Please note that this is mainly a quant heavy review. I don't have much info/advice on verbal as I barely touched it.

I had actually taken my first GMAT way back in March but went i blind. I had no idea about the format, and when I saw a calculator pop up on IR, I was exultant, thinking i'd have it for the entire test. Ended up with a 590 on that. I think it was something like 30Q and 38V.

I spent the next 5? months 'studying', and by that i mean, browsing facebook and playing battlefield with my study material long forgotten in the background. I only bucked up in the last 2 months. This is how it went...

Materials used

i) MGMAT quant books (8/10 rating) - These are probably a staple for most GMAT takers and I think they're good too. They cover all the topics, from a basic to a high level, and if you're looking for a place to start, pick these up. They also come with 6 MGMAT mock tests which are invaluable (more on these later). The only problem I had with the books is that the practice questions framed were not very 'GMAT esque' but rather meant to target a core understanding of the concept. This is actually better in many ways, because if you really understand the basics, you should be able to apply the knowledge to any question. However, since I have a mental block against quant, I have a hard time recalling and applying knowledge, so for me, being 'spoonfed' practice questions which mimic real questions to a t are probably better (this is where I am probably wrong).

In any case, I sort of skimmed over these books and didn't get a true understanding of the basics. I will be re-taking the GMAT and plan to devote a good month to these books. Master the basics. Always.

ii) EMPOWERGMAT (9/10 rating) - Rich Cohen's tactics were the only things that enabled me to make any progress on quant. Sure, I knew the rudimentary basics and the formulae, but whenever I encountered a quant question, my brain would completely fall apart. Rich's way of breaking down problems into small pieces and applying as little 'math' as possible gave me at least some confidence during my mocks. I think, that if one has very strong understanding of the basics, they should then pickup the Empower course, because the two would synergize reallllly well in my opinion. I am looking forward to mastering the basics, and augmenting them with Empower tactics to hit a super score in my next attempt at quant. Max's verbal section is good too, but since verbal was never a problem, I really didn't watch more than a couple of videos. In any case, I highly recommend this course. Empower also has a tie up with the OG and Rich and MAX explain each OG problem in their own way. So this is a HUGEEEEE Plus point)

iii) TargetTestPrep (8.99/10 rating) - I only used this for about 3 weeks (5 day free trial and then a 2 week extension), but wished I had found them earlier. If you don't want to read MGMAT books, then do TargetTestprep. They will whip you into shape and REALLY make sure you understand the math. And unlike MGMAT, every problem of theirs, even while you're still learning the concepts, mimics GMAT type questions. I think it is a great platform and if you can go through all their chapters, and then even score say, a 60% plus accuracy on their 'medium' level review tests, you'd be good to hit at least a Q46. If you can get say 60% on their 'difficult' level tests? Q 51. No questions asked.

Unfortunately since i did not have sufficient time, i did not get enough value out of these guys.

In my opinion, TTP and Empower are two very different ways of studying for this test. While the former really drills the 'math' aspect of quant into you, the latter gives you an out of the box approach. Choose whichever you like, or choose both to became a GMAT zen master and score an 800.

iv) GMATCLUB forums (questions sorted by difficulty)(8.5/10) - Great for practice, but only AFTER you have gone through a course, or after you have the basics mastered. Only drawback is that this obviously isn't 'structured' so don't do what I did and end up randomly clicking questions, solving (or failing to solve them), and then telling myself mentally that I'd remember how to do them if I saw them again. WRITE everything down. Structure your study and structure the way in which you're going to hit the questions on the forum. Buunel and his gang of merry men are always there to clear a doubt and jeez, these guys are smart. If you have the basics down, come to the forums and start working on the problems in a STRUCTURED way. I plan on utilizing them a whole bunch before my next attempt.

v) OG 2016 - (8/10) Well its the official guide, so the questions are as official as they're going to get. I think the first half of the quant questions are ridiculously easy and shouldn't be gone over more than once. The second half are tougher and those are the ones you'll want to tackle. Verbal wise, you won't find any problems as good as these. Period.

Mock Tests

MGMAT TESTS
1) MGMAT I - 620 (Q32 V45)
2) MGMAT II - 520 (lol wtf) (Q30 V 31)
3) MGMAT III - 590 (Q40 V 32)
4) MGMAT IV - 620 (Q39 V 35)
5) MGMAT V - 630 (Q38 V 37)
6) MGMAT VI (done three days before D-day) - 710 (Q42 V 45)

GMAT prep (two free tests)

1) GMAT prep I: 580 (Done two days before D-day. I don't remember the breakup, just the number that torpedoed my stomach
2) GMAT prep II: 710 (Done the day before D-day. I know its not advisable to do a test the day before the exam, but I had to get my confidence up after the previous day's bomb) (Q 48 <--- WTF??? V 40)

Those are my test scores. Notice that they're all over the damn place? Wonder why? Its because they reflect the way i studied. The way I approached my studying - haphazard and all over the place. DO not do what I did. The first thing you want to do, is plan out your 3 months and ensure that you're following a structure. Don't be cocksure and confident (like I was), and think you know better than the experts because you don't.

I do want to note that MGMAT quant is harder than GMAT prep math, and that its verbal is very funky (not bad, just weird). They're good quant practice, and 'okay' verbal practice. For verbal stick to the OG.


D-Day

I went into the exam after studying about 12-13 hours a day for the past 2 and a half weeks. I used to take something called Modalert (modafinil) hoping that it would let me focus more, and sure, it did. It also kept me up into the nights and didn't let me sleep. In the end, I had information clogging up my brain. I couldn't process it, couldn't put it together, and on the very first question i froze. I froze because my core fundamentals weren't strong. Make sure your core is strong. Don't try and memorize questions like I did, because the moment you see even the slightest twist in that type of question, your brain is going to get tangled up.

I tried to answer the rest of the quant to the best of my ability, but as the questions got easier and easier my heart sank. I pretty much guessed the verbal section because I was so disheartened and wanted it to be over as quickly as possible. Randomly picked IR answers, wrote a half baked essay and when 660 popped out (Q38 V 40) i didn't flinch. I knew I'd screwed up, not only in the exam, but in my prep.

The key thing to take away from this is: PLAN your preparation, and FOCUS on the basics. I know everyone says that, and I know, you might think you're smarter than you were in 9th grade. But don't leave it up to chance. Go back and check on you knowledge, just to make sure.

I'm writing the exam again on Nov 8th and I am aiming at a 740+.

I plan on doing all the MGMAT books again in detail, a week for each book, and then move on to the forum questions. I want to get my verbal up in the 45-50 range, so instead of thinking that i'm 'too good' to study for verbal, I'm going to go sit down and dedicate a good portion of my study to it.

OH AND CONCENTRATE ON DS TOO!!! I barely paid DS much attention thinking that if I could master problem solving, the DS would just 'fall into place'

I got destroyed by DS. Don't be like me. Practice them too! Thursdays with Ron has some nice vids that I plan on watching for the next retake.

Sorry for the long post. Its probably quite winding and at times, incomprehensible. Anyhow, thought I'd share. Best of luck to all!

Kudos [?]: 7 [2], given: 21

EMPOWERgmat Discount CodesMagoosh Discount Codese-GMAT Discount Codes
1 KUDOS received
Manager
Manager
avatar
S
Joined: 17 Feb 2017
Posts: 64

Kudos [?]: 47 [1], given: 42

Location: India
GMAT 1: 720 Q49 V40
GPA: 3.69
Reviews Badge CAT Tests
Re: 660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do) [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 Sep 2017, 07:52
1
This post received
KUDOS
1
This post was
BOOKMARKED
I read your entire debrief and here are my suggestions. First of all a q38 is a very weak quant score and i am not sure but it would be under the 40th percentile. Second a v40 is 91 percentile since i have the same. Now even if you work hard in verbal and somehow hit 45 (which again i would say is very very hard as beyond 38 the questions become very hard i even got a comprehension which was lsat level ) you will maybe break the 700 mark but no decent b school would accept you with such a low quant a q45-46 is one thing a q38 is completely another. Also it is very easy to go from a q38 to 47 beyond that it would take a low of efforts. I would suggest you follow a 80 20 stratergy i.e devote 80% time to quant. Start from the basic and do it enthusiastically . Enjoy doing math. You can easily get your math up to say a 47 and that along with 40 will give you a 700 and a decent split.From what i have heard a q47 is the minimum a good bschool top 20 wouldn't red flag

Kudos [?]: 47 [1], given: 42

2 KUDOS received
Manager
Manager
avatar
S
Joined: 17 Feb 2017
Posts: 64

Kudos [?]: 47 [2], given: 42

Location: India
GMAT 1: 720 Q49 V40
GPA: 3.69
Reviews Badge CAT Tests
Re: 660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do) [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 Sep 2017, 07:59
2
This post received
KUDOS
i helped a girl go from a q38 to q47 . i made a math study plan for her and she followed it and it helped. if you need any help message me

Kudos [?]: 47 [2], given: 42

Expert Post
1 KUDOS received
EMPOWERgmat Instructor
User avatar
P
Status: GMAT Assassin/Co-Founder
Affiliations: EMPOWERgmat
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
Posts: 10111

Kudos [?]: 3501 [1], given: 173

Location: United States (CA)
GMAT 1: 800 Q51 V49
GRE 1: 340 Q170 V170
Re: 660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do) [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 Sep 2017, 21:17
1
This post received
KUDOS
Expert's post
1
This post was
BOOKMARKED
Hi calappa1234,

First off, a 660 is a strong score (it's right around the 80th percentile overall), so it could be enough to get you into your first-choice School. The Q38 could be a 'red flag' at certain Programs though - and you seem to understand some of the short-comings in your studies - so a retest makes a certain amount of sense. Considering that your Verbal skills are so strong, you could potentially score in the mid-700s (or higher) with the right focus on honing your Quant skills.

Based on what you've described, there are a couple of other aspects to your studies that you should adjust for your next attempt:

1) Studying 12+ hours a day is NOT a good idea. That type of 'cramming' might have worked in college, but it rarely leads to great results on the GMAT. By studying in that volume in the last 2 weeks before your Exam, It's likely that you were a bit 'burned out' on Test Day.

2) The process of taking (and reviewing) a CAT requires a significant amount of energy and effort - and takes time to 'recover' from. This is one of the reasons why you typically shouldn't take more than 1 CAT per week. By taking 3 CATs in the 3 days right before your Official GMAT, there's an even greater chance that you experienced some burn out on Test Day.

3) Many of the patterns and Tactics that are applicable to PS questions also can be used on DS questions. However, DS questions have their own specific patterns that you'll need to learn. Thankfully, the GMAT is a consistent, predictable Exam, so you CAN train to score at a higher level.

1) When are you planning to take the GMAT?
2) When are you planning to apply to Business School?
3) What Schools are you planning to apply to?

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
_________________

760+: Learn What GMAT Assassins Do to Score at the Highest Levels
Contact Rich at: Rich.C@empowergmat.com

Rich Cohen

Co-Founder & GMAT Assassin

Special Offer: Save $75 + GMAT Club Tests Free
  Official GMAT Exam Packs + 70 Pt. Improvement Guarantee
www.empowergmat.com/

***********************Select EMPOWERgmat Courses now include ALL 6 Official GMAC CATs!***********************

Kudos [?]: 3501 [1], given: 173

Intern
Intern
avatar
B
Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 24

Kudos [?]: 7 [0], given: 21

GMAT ToolKit User
Re: 660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do) [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 07 Sep 2017, 23:34
Hi Rich,

My re-take is on the 8th of November, so I have 2 months to go. I'm aiming for something above 700. A 740 would be great!

I won't be able to make most of the R1 deadlines for schools but that doesn't bother me too much. I'll try my luck at R2/R3 but don't mind waiting another year for a better chance.

I don't plan on going overboard in the last two weeks this time, but instead maybe putting in a steady 4 hours a day (i'm working atm) and maybe 6-7 on the weekends.

The highest I've scored on quant is a 48, but that was pure luck. When reviewing the questions (MGMAT), i got 3 '700-800' level questions correct (all of which were guesses). Honestly, I'd be thrilled if I could maintain a Q45.

Also, is it realistic to try and hit a V45+? Thing is I haven't studied verbal at all. I've always gone by 'gut' feeling and although its resulted in fluctuations during MGMAT tests (anywhere from as low as 32 to as high as 45), i've gotten steady 40s on the official tests/exams.

Truth is I really have no idea what parallelism, modifiers and all that other stuff means. I even get confused between the definitions of basic things such as prepositions/conjunctions etc... Would it be advisable to go back to the drawing board for verbal too? Learn the very basics and work my way up? I really want to see my verbal hit a consistent 45 if possible.

THanks!

Kudos [?]: 7 [0], given: 21

1 KUDOS received
Manager
Manager
User avatar
P
Joined: 12 Oct 2015
Posts: 209

Kudos [?]: 131 [1], given: 105

Location: Canada
Concentration: Leadership, Accounting
GMAT 1: 700 Q47 V39
GPA: 3.3
WE: Accounting (Accounting)
Premium Member Reviews Badge
Re: 660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do) [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 08 Sep 2017, 07:25
1
This post received
KUDOS
You scored a V40 a very good verbal score so you just need to focus on Quant. Going from Q38-Q45 is very very doable in 4-6 weeks.Ditch the MGMAT tests and sign up for Gmatclub tests. Download the GMAT Math book and go over the whole book. My advice don't waste money on expensive courses, just a waste of money. For gmatclub tests go over all the 500 level questions and then 600. Dont even bother with 700 level questions at this point, you are wasting your time because the real time will not get that difficult at the Q45 level.

Good luck
_________________

Winners dont make excuses.

350--> 700

https://gmatclub.com/forum/700-q47-v39-ir-7-awa-246682.html

Kudos [?]: 131 [1], given: 105

Expert Post
1 KUDOS received
EMPOWERgmat Instructor
User avatar
P
Status: GMAT Assassin/Co-Founder
Affiliations: EMPOWERgmat
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
Posts: 10111

Kudos [?]: 3501 [1], given: 173

Location: United States (CA)
GMAT 1: 800 Q51 V49
GRE 1: 340 Q170 V170
Re: 660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do) [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 08 Sep 2017, 15:29
1
This post received
KUDOS
Expert's post
Hi calappa1234,

A November 8th Test Date gives you plenty of time to continue to study and improve. In addition, there are still plenty of 'spots' available in Round 2, so as long as you've properly assembled your application - and you have a strong overall profile - then you could very well be just fine applying at that point in time.

With the proper focus over the next 2 months (and by that, I mean a reasonable and consistent amount of study time - no cramming), I suspect that you could likely score far higher than the Q38 and earn some extra points in Verbal too. The entire GMAT is built around patterns, so you can use Quant Tactics to take advantage of those patterns and use the typical Verbal logic/design patterns to pick up points in that section. Right now, you have a really strong Verbal critical-thinking aptitude (meaning that you essentially know that the correct answer just 'sounds right'). At higher levels though, some of the wrong answers to Verbal questions become more subtle, so you would be more likely to come down to 2 choices that both sound good, without really defining WHY the wrong one is wrong. Learning those common types of wrong answer 'patterns', along with some rarer grammar/idiom/style rules, could be enough to get you to a V45.

When are you planning to get back into 'study mode?'

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
_________________

760+: Learn What GMAT Assassins Do to Score at the Highest Levels
Contact Rich at: Rich.C@empowergmat.com

Rich Cohen

Co-Founder & GMAT Assassin

Special Offer: Save $75 + GMAT Club Tests Free
  Official GMAT Exam Packs + 70 Pt. Improvement Guarantee
www.empowergmat.com/

***********************Select EMPOWERgmat Courses now include ALL 6 Official GMAC CATs!***********************

Kudos [?]: 3501 [1], given: 173

Intern
Intern
avatar
B
Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 24

Kudos [?]: 7 [0], given: 21

GMAT ToolKit User
Re: 660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do) [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 11 Sep 2017, 04:16
Hi Rich,

I'm planning on starting to shift into study gear over the coming weekend. That leaves me about 55? days or so to go. While I am going to concentrate primarily on quant, i will be hitting up verbal too, to be able to figure out, as you said, the subtle things that separate two 'correct' sounding answers. Thanks a bunch for all the advice! Hopefully I'll be able to nail this thing once and for all!

Kudos [?]: 7 [0], given: 21

Re: 660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do)   [#permalink] 11 Sep 2017, 04:16
Display posts from previous: Sort by

660 Debrief: Q38 V40 (What you probably should not do)

  new topic post reply Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  

Moderators: EMPOWERgmatRichC, ydmuley, bb

HOT DEALS FOR NOVEMBER
Economist GMAT - Free Free 1-week trial + Free Test
Kaplan Courses - Save $475 $225 Discount + $250 Bonus
Target Test Prep - $800 $50 Discount + $750 Bonus [GMAT Club
Tests and Premium MBA Bundle]
EMPOWERgmat - $99/mo GMAT Club tests included 2nd month
GMAT Club Tests - Free Included with every course purchase
of $149 or more - Full List is here


GMAT Club MBA Forum Home| About| Terms and Conditions| GMAT Club Rules| Contact| Sitemap

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group | Emoji artwork provided by EmojiOne

Kindly note that the GMAT® test is a registered trademark of the Graduate Management Admission Council®, and this site has neither been reviewed nor endorsed by GMAC®.