700 GMAT+ Applicants who are DINGED from ALL their schools?

Boom, just got my final ding from Columbia. Struck out from all the schools I applied to without interview or waitlist.

I just threw a chair out the window.

I know I can't speak for myself since I got into one of my top schools. However I had a friend who applied 2 years ago, 750, 3.7 UG Johns Hopkins, Got a masters at Columbia, 4 years in management consulting and great EC. Got dinged from all 5 schools he applied. He got in last year and is at CBS.

The problem with his first app was just was just another profile. There were hundreds of applicants like him, and while everything he had was competitive, nothing stood out. In a realm where almost everyone is competitive as well you need to bring something to the table.

Also, base on all my conversations with friends who are applying this year with me, your voice really needs to come through in your essay. What makes you who you are (i know it's so cheesy and so much "soul-searching" but it's true). Even the adcomm people i've spoken to tell me that is so impt. Good luck for those reapplying...here's hoping 2nd times the charm for you!

A good GMAT score is just one of many requirements, and far from a golden ticket. It's more of a checkpoint than anything.

760/3.6 in finance at a top 30 public school/working since 2006 in corporate finance for Fortune 500, good work experience/progression and decent EC. 26 now, male, mixed race, US born and based.

This was my 3rd year applying and I finally got in somewhere. The two previous years I was a little short on WE and EC, but mostly I think it was my career goals combined with setting my sights too high on schools (didn't have a "safety" school because I was applying pretty early and didn't mind too much waiting another year). I thought I wanted to go into investment management before, but I wasn't 100% sure and didn't truly know what it took, and I think that came through in my essays and interviews. My previous application years:

Class of 2011, R1:
Ding w/Interview: Booth
Ding w/o Interview: H/S/W, Anderson, Haas

Got some feedback from Anderson, said my academics were great, first essay was good (I consider myself a pretty good writer and others have told me the same), but 2nd-3rd essays could use a little work. Also was encouraged to apply R2 next year since it's just that much more WE to add.

Class of 2012, R2:
WL w/Interview, never got off: Stern
Ding w/Interview: Anderson, Kellogg (they interview everyone though)
Ding w/o Interview: Columbia, Sloan, Haas, Booth

This year I really attacked every possible area of my application. I read books on getting in and applied them to my essays and really everything about my apps. I used my network and got a couple people to write notes to admissions for me where possible. I gave my recommenders a list of accomplishments that they could structure their letters on (and gave different lists to each so they wouldn't overlap too much), and changed one of the writers to someone who could give a more diverse perspective. I focused more on differentiating myself in the essays and having a unique story and voice, rather than listing successes - this was especially important since I'm a very common type of applicant. I also got involved with even more EC's, and took leadership roles. I did hire an admissions consultant, but only for 1hr of work - just had her evaluate me overall, and look at old my essay package for Columbia as well as a draft of a "generic" reapplicant essay.

Most importantly, I did some soul-searching and career research and realized that in the long run, investment mgmt really wasn't for me and my current career in corporate finance was a pretty good place to be, especially in a more exciting industry. My results:

Class of 2013, R2:
Admitted: Ross, Duke (despite by far my worst interview)
Interviewed, still waiting: Stern
WL w/Interview: Booth, Tuck, Anderson (which I was a little annoyed about, since it was my 3rd year applying... just ding me if you're still not sure! I had an outstanding interview as well.)
Dinged w/Interview: Kellogg 1Y (there are only ~80 people in that program, so I blame it on that fact )
Dinged w/o Interview: Columbia, although I believe this was due to a dumb mistake I made on an essay from the previous year.

7 interviews certainly is a better result than before, and it feels great to get in somewhere, plus knowing that I was/am close with other schools.

My advice would be to *really* focus on what you want in an MBA program and be honest with yourself about how ready you are. WHEN you are ready, examine and aggressively address every part of your application that you can. There are a lot of very smart and driven people out there, so you have to make sure you're not just one of them, but that you stand out among them. It isn't as hard as it seems once you break down your app into pieces and think about what you can do to address each one.

I don't think the reco is the deal breaker here, they are not too important anyway (basically, applicants usually write them for themselves, and schools know that).

My opinion, you are - paradoxically - too strong for them. For G-d sake, not only your GMAT is stellar, you already have Masters degree - and no less, from MIT!

They wonder why such an accomplished candidate would want an MBA. They may suspect you are in for a "victory lap". Try to address the issue in your essays if you decide to re-apply (and I hope you won't need to), and better yet, think why do you need it indeed. MBA is not a classic academic degree and it's tailored more towards younger career-switchers. You can succeed wherever you go.

I have heard of people who are 700 and well above who were turned away from schools. You can’t really rely on your GMAT score only to get you in. I hired a well known and very expensive consultant my first year that I tried and struck out. I partially blame the consultant for sucking the life and unique voice out of my essays. The members of the admissions committee who are reading the essays want to read something new and feel convinced that you are something special beyond having a talent for sentence correction. Some students who are very sound academically don’t really exude “future business leader”, they exude “follows rules really well”. Depending on the school you are targeting this could be a negative. Were you a dynamic and engaging fellow in your interview? Did you have a clear career path that called out why you needed an MBA as related to your future career goals how your history has lead you do that career? I really can’t answer why you specifically may be having a tough time, but it is certainly possible someone with even a perfect GMAT score could get dinged.

Becky

One thing I've learned from this entire application process is that it's not always fair. And I still can't understand how it works. I have friends who got into Harvard, but were rejected by Wharton and NYU. There's no rhyme or reason sometimes for how the adcom makes decisions. Last year, I should've posted on this board.. dings from Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg and Sloan, but with a 740 gmat, 3.2 GPA, 4 years WE at a top Fortune 500 company and a relatively unique profile. I did get interviews at all, though.

It's not easy to "improve" your application when there's no glaring area of weakness, but here's what I figured out and how I improved my application and got into Wharton, Booth, Kellogg and possibly Columbia this year (only ding was HBS and I already knew they don't like re-applicants).

1) Recommendations: My recommenders last time were nice but I never gave them any guidance on what to focus on. This time, I sat down with each of my recommenders to discuss what I'd done in the last few years. First off, I was on the same page as my recommenders on my strengths and weaknesses, so I knew not to tout something they considered a weakness as a strength on my application. Additionally, I also knew how to explain my weaknesses in my essays. Also, by talking with them, I found that they could highlight different areas of my application so that I could have more room in my essays to showcase other facets.

2) Essays: Frankly, I thought mine were fine the first time. For the re-apps, I did edit and add how I'd improved in the last year. But I made sure to first write a list of all of the key stories I wanted to write about, I determined what strengths they described, and then picked applicable stories for each schools, making sure that I'd covered all of the leadership dimensions I wanted. Anyway, make sure you highlight your uniqueness in your essays. There are definitely too many cookie cutter models out there, so anything to show how you are different will make a big difference.

3) Interviews: For those of you who did interview, did you feel like it was your best version of yourself? No? Neither did I. Honestly though, neither were my Wharton and Kellogg interviews this year. I thought they were horrible. Very brief, I felt like I was rambling, etc.. So definitely not my strong area. But, it obviously didn't make a difference. Anyway, I'd still definitely recommend practicing Also, last year, people told me that I had to interview on campus. That's not true. I didn't interview on campus this go around (barring Tuck) and if anything, it helped me. If you want to visit the campus, sure, go interview there. But don't JUST interview on campus because you think you'll have no shot otherwise.

4) Relation to the school: This one was huge (in my opinion). Make sure the schools know that you like them. Not just by applying to them or visiting them once or twice (as I mentioned in the last section, not compulsory).. Meet alumni, get to know alumni in your company (perhaps they could become a future recommender), go to events, research the school, be able to talk about specific attributes of the school in your essays / interviews (i.e. how it's too bad that the Manhattanville campus won't be complete for at least another 5 years, but that you'll love going to Uris, etc...) Also, especially if you plan on moving back to the same area post-graduation, find out how you can help your local alumni community. Unless you're going to a huge MBA hub like NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc..., most other cities may have smaller alumni chapters so they'd love to bring you back to their area. Just show the local alumni chapters how you can make a difference and that will go a long way.

5) Yourself: Even with all of these areas covered, it doesn't hurt to improve yourself as well. Try to seek out more leadership opportunities, both at work and outside of work. The one good thing about re-applying? It takes much less time! Seriously, I spent ~50% less time this year on applications than I did last year. That means you'll have more time to spend on other activities, so get involved in your community, learn more about your intended post-MBA career, etc..

I seriously wish you all the best of luck. I certainly know how depressing it is when you know you're a solid candidate for these schools and you get rejected outright. But let me tell you.. that makes the happiness so much more intense when you get in the second time I know, not much consolation now but I know you all will feel it next year!!

Great thank you.

SalarymanJ - completely agree it's not just about GMAT. I just put it in the title cause that's a baseline requirement almost. I think I have a killer background and experiences, but i'm close to zero admit...

Personally the only thing I could have done differently is to apply R1 instead of R2

I got 750 GMAT, BS and Masters degree from MIT with 3.9/4.0 GPA. Got dinged by all schools WITHOUT an interview or waitlist so far. Columbia is the only one I am waiting on (but things don't look good, the schools are not that different and if I don't get an interview at any of them with my stats, then something is very wrong). My essays were pretty good. I had 3 current HBS students review them before submitting, and they agree that it was on par with their essays that got them admitted. My only weakness is that one of my managers wrote a really crappy recommendation letter and submitted it before asking me to look it over (he spent like 5 min on it, had typos and other weird comments, he said he would go over it with me first, but he just submitted it). I'm gonna go cry because I can't shake the feeling that if I had asked someone else to write the letter, then I would have succeeded (or at least gotten an interview at ONE of the schools). Now even if I want to try again next year, I would be a re-applicant which makes it a lot tougher and it sucks to have lost a year too.

That's a serious concern. One of my recommenders always submitted at the last minute and never let me review them. In the end I only got accepted at his Alma Mater so I guess he actually spent time on that one. Perhaps it's best to not even give the recommender the link to submit the reco without reviewing it first.

Did you just say that you're upset that your recommender didn't let you review what is supposed to be an anonymous recommendation?

Maybe I should clarify. What I mean is I would remind one of my recommenders several times up to the day of the deadline and then finally on the day of the deadline. For every school I applied to he sounded hurried and stressed out to get the recommendation done about an hour before the deadline. In one or two cases I'm fairly certain he didn't write the recommendation until the day of the deadline. That's what I was upset about

I feel you. I'm in the same boat and my admissions consultant saw me as one of his strongest candidates...CBS is BAD this year - that kicked off my bad streak. Good luck.

If you don't mind me asking--which consultant did you happen to use?

I feel your pain and I actually believe that your recommendation letter could be a deal breaker. Imagine that you're competing with all kinds of amazing people who have great GMAT, GPA, essays and track record and who went to great schools. What's left for schools to compare? Recommendation letter, I strongly believe. School adcoms are smart and experienced and they know whether a recommendation letter is authentic/sincere or not.

I personally heard several similar stories like yours. These people re-applied the following year with completely different recommenders (but of course, proven incremental performance from year over year) and they all got into very good schools.

Don't be discouraged. Shxt happens in life. If you clearly know why you want a MBA, one year delay really doesn't mean much.

It seems TOUGH to reapply in R1. When I finally receive my dings this year, it will be April 2011. With Apps due by Oct 2011, I would want to start the essays by August. that essentially gives me 3-4 months to 'improve'.....

IMHO, I think part of the problem is that a high percentage of people on this site think that only the top 5 or top 8 or whatever schools are worthy of their effort. They get a 740 GMAT and think that it is HBS, Wharton, Stanford or bust. When you are applying to the top schools, they are a crap shoot no matter what your credentials are. That is just a fact of MBA admissions.

If people were to only read these boards they might think that NYU is a "safety" school for most people

I completely agree with you - and agree the 10-13% acceptance rate speaks for itself. However, around 25% of candidates get interviewed, and I think many QUALIFIED (not just people who think they are qualified) have been ding'd without interview from all of their school.