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A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce

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A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 01 Sep 2004, 00:51
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A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities

Last edited by broall on 30 Aug 2017, 18:37, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2017, 01:55
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When you say "the action stopped," are you talking about my discussion of the past perfect in A?

To use the past perfect, we need more than an action that has stopped, or we'd end up using past perfect for all events that have ended. We don't say "I had been born in California" or "Nehru had been the first Prime Minister of India." To use past perfect, we need a sentence that mentions some past event, and we need to be describing something that preceded that past event: "Before the ruling was made, I had been crossing the border every day." "I had studied French for three years when I finally visited France."

As for the present tense in D, maybe it will help to think of it this way. There is an amount that municipalities are allowed to dump. The 1972 agreement reduced that amount, and we are still at that reduced amount. So the amount that municipalities are currently allowed to dump is lower than it used to be. Why? Because the 1972 agreement reduced it.

We could have used "were" instead of "are," but that would restrict the scope to the past, leaving it unclear whether the reduction is still in place, or whether such a limitation even exists anymore! It also would have made this question a lot less tough. ;) However, using the past perfect would be the worst of all. As I said before, since past perfect describes events that precede another past event, this would place the allowance first in our order, meaning that the change affected how much people had already been allowed to dump. In other words, we'd be saying it changed the past!
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2017, 03:04
DmitryFarber wrote:
When you say "the action stopped," are you talking about my discussion of the past perfect in A?

To use the past perfect, we need more than an action that has stopped, or we'd end up using past perfect for all events that have ended. We don't say "I had been born in California" or "Nehru had been the first Prime Minister of India." To use past perfect, we need a sentence that mentions some past event, and we need to be describing something that preceded that past event: "Before the ruling was made, I had been crossing the border every day." "I had studied French for three years when I finally visited France."

As for the present tense in D, maybe it will help to think of it this way. There is an amount that municipalities are allowed to dump. The 1972 agreement reduced that amount, and we are still at that reduced amount. So the amount that municipalities are currently allowed to dump is lower than it used to be. Why? Because the 1972 agreement reduced it.

We could have used "were" instead of "are," but that would restrict the scope to the past, leaving it unclear whether the reduction is still in place, or whether such a limitation even exists anymore! It also would have made this question a lot less tough. ;) However, using the past perfect would be the worst of all. As I said before, since past perfect describes events that precede another past event, this would place the allowance first in our order, meaning that the change affected how much people had already been allowed to dump. In other words, we'd be saying it changed the past!


"There is an amount that municipalities are allowed to dump. The 1972 agreement reduced that amount, and we are still at that reduced amount. So the amount that municipalities are currently allowed to dump is lower than it used to be. Why? Because the 1972 agreement reduced it."

Thanks a lot Dmirty, I got a bang on explanation!

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2017, 09:39
I have 2 questions:

1-Can anybody tell me whether it would be a right sentence if we use present perfect tense like the following?
-reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities have been dumping

Does it mean that the dumping activity have continued until now, or until the time that the amount of phosphate was reduced
2-I have been using "reduced the phosphate amount" and assuming that "phosphate amount" and "amount of phosphate" have the same meaning. Can anyone tell me the exact difference? Or is it only because after "reduced" we have to use the specific word of what is reduced?
If so, which one is the right use among "...the amount of phosphate that was reduced" and "...the phosphate amount that was reduced"

Answers are really appreciated!

Last edited by fikarak on 24 Apr 2017, 13:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2017, 13:10
Hello expert, please confirm, is OPTION 'A' a correct answer?

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2017, 19:34
VKat wrote:
Hello expert, please confirm, is OPTION 'A' a correct answer?
Option D is correct. You can check the answer by clicking "reveal" on the OA.
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2017, 07:04
hello
expert, what's wrong with A , totally bumped !
please explain

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2017, 10:33
nks2611 wrote:
hello
expert, what's wrong with A , totally bumped !
please explain


The past perfect tense is self-defeating in option A: "had been allowed to dump" implies that the action "allowing" occurred before the action "reducing". This in turn implies that there was no more "allowing" after the reduction was effected - this does not make sense. There was "allowing" before AND AFTER "reducing". Hence past perfect is wrong.

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 24 May 2017, 00:41
Tips: For Past perfect tense to apply both the events must occur and get completed in the past.
Here the dumping continues to the present hence A is wrong and D is the answer.

Press Kudos if you like the explanation!

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 04 Jul 2017, 01:56
Hi all

The question reads: :" A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United states reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

I have managed to narrow down the options to two:

A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump

The correct answer is D, but I am trying to understand what is wrong with A. Ideally, the first sentence should read "reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities were allowed to dump" if the reduction happened in the past. But then what does "had been allowed to dump" imply and why is this the wrong answer?

Thanks :)

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jul 2017, 11:18
Not sure if the OA is right.

Option D uses "are" which means that municipalities are still dumping, which is not stated anywhere.

Experts please help

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 26 Aug 2017, 12:42
rule of past-perfect tense is -
if there are two events in the past A and B, if we use past perfect tense event A must end when event B interrupts it.

She had eaten the ice cream when shyam came.

So OA will be D

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 09:12
OA says its 'D' while most of the people argue its 'A' can someone please confirm, whats the OA?

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 09:22
aditimangal wrote:
OA says its 'D' while most of the people argue its 'A' can someone please confirm, whats the OA?
The correct answer is option D. This is Q77 in OG 2015.
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 14:49
gmati3 wrote:
Not sure if the OA is right.

Option D uses "are" which means that municipalities are still dumping, which is not stated anywhere.

Experts please help


That is correct muncipalities are still dumping, just that the quantity has reduced.
Hence the use of past perfect is not correct

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 14:51
nrxbra001 wrote:
Hi all

The question reads: :" A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United states reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

I have managed to narrow down the options to two:

A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump

The correct answer is D, but I am trying to understand what is wrong with A. Ideally, the first sentence should read "reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities were allowed to dump" if the reduction happened in the past. But then what does "had been allowed to dump" imply and why is this the wrong answer?

Thanks :)


A is wrong cause -
rule of past-perfect tense is -
if there are two events in the past A and B, if we use past perfect tense event A must end when event B interrupts it.

She had eaten the ice cream when shyam came.


Had been allowed to dump if the municipality was no longer allowed to dump

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 18:10
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
--> How to reduce amount of phosphate already dumped in past. Incorrect
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
Phosphate amount Should be Amount of phosphate : Incorrect
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
Same As B
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
Correct
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities
Incorrect

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink]

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New post 30 Aug 2017, 07:52
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities[/quote]

Between A and D, I choose D. As question speaks of an "agreement" between two countries, in D "municipalities are allowed to dump" appears more like a clause that we see usually in any formal agreement as opposed to in A "municipalities had been allowed to dump".

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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce   [#permalink] 30 Aug 2017, 07:52

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