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A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses

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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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21 May 2013, 04:14
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D and E are out .

A and B have pronoun error as discussed which is not in C.
But i would like add one more point that C uses the correct verb tense(Present perfect)
"whether tourists will ....... once the animals’ horns have been" i.e if the proposal goes thru..the horns of tha animals will be trimmed. So the EFFECT remains.Pls refer MGMAT SC if you dont understand EFFECT analysis here.

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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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21 May 2013, 06:55
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The methodical steps to this issue may be:
1. This is question of deciding on a dilemma. Hence the conditional ‘if’ is irrelevant; dump D and E.
2. “To see” denotes the purpose of a visit and better than ‘and see’. Hence A is out.
3. To see “one” after “their” horns: the subject - pronoun number mismatch is too glaring.
4. C is the remainder
IMO, the difference in the use of present perfect or present tense is rather too thin. Both are acceptable in formal writing I suppose. As in this case: - I wonder whether I can enjoy bones once my teeth are broken - is as good as - I wonder whether I can enjoy bones once my teeth have been broken - nothing much to choose from. But this is just my feeling.
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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08 Jan 2014, 08:16
voodoochild wrote:
A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.

A) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are
B) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one once their horns are
C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals' horns have been
D) if tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses once the animals' horns are
E) if tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one after the animals' horns have been

OA C

First, I figured "whether" is wrong, but then I ignored that thought.

"Their" in A is ambiguous, "one" in B is ambiguous, "are" in D distorts meaning, it should be "have been". "One" in E is ambiguous, and C has no major problems, other than my issue with "whether". So I went with C.
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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14 Feb 2014, 09:23
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msln2008 wrote:
voodoochild wrote:
A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.

A) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are
B) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one once their horns are
C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals' horns have been
D) if tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses once the animals' horns are
E) if tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one after the animals' horns have been

OA C

All:
I know that D and E can be rejected because of usage of "if"

Among A, B and C, B and A are rejected for lack of antecedents. I am not looking for the correct answer. I want to understand why "horns have been" is a correct usage. In other words, via is present perfect better than present tense ("are trimmed")

Any help is appreciated.

Hi e-gmat,

Please can you explain why option A is wrong. I think there is nothing wrong when their refers to plural Rhinoceroces.

Hi there,

Usually, when a pronoun begins a clause, it refers to the subject of the previous clause. In this context, the subject of the previous clause is "tourists". So, even though the logical antecedent of the pronoun "they" can't be "tourists", it's better to replace the pronoun with the noun that it should refer to.

As we point out in our SC1 live session, pronoun ambiguity is sometimes considered an error on the GMAT, but sometimes an ambiguous pronoun can be in the correct answer. So, we encourage you not to use pronoun ambiguity as the only criterion to eliminate an answer choice.

In this question, there is also another way to eliminate option A. Note the difference between "visit... and see" and "visit... to see". The intended meaning of the sentence is that tourists visit the zoo in order to see the rhinos. This meaning is correctly stated by using "to" rather than "and". The part before the semicolon also makes it clear that the sentence is concerned only with rhinos, and that any other reason that tourists may visit the zoo is not part of the intended meaning of the sentence. So, "visit... to see" is correct.

I hope this helps to resolve your doubt.

Regards,
Meghna
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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16 Feb 2014, 08:24
diehard4 wrote:
21. A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.
(A) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are
(B) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one once their horns are
(C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns have been
(D) if tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns are
(E) if tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one after the animals’ horns have been

As per OG The verb following after should
be the present-perfect have been trimmed to reflect
that the trimming must occur before the tourists
arrive.

But already the time maker after is there, so why is it necessary to use present perfect tense here

Also what is the basic difference in using whether and if? When to use if and when to use whether?
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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27 Feb 2014, 05:12
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jrashish wrote:

As per OG The verb following after should
be the present-perfect have been trimmed to reflect
that the trimming must occur before the tourists
arrive.

But already the time maker after is there, so why is it necessary to use present perfect tense here

Also what is the basic difference in using whether and if? When to use if and when to use whether?

Hi Ashish,

Time markers such as "before" and "after" should be used to substitute actions only when the past perfect tense is used. This rule does not apply to the present perfect tense, since this tense doesn't need two actions. The present perfect tense refers to an action that started in the past and has continued into the present. It can stand on its own without reference to any other action.

"If" should be used in "if-then" contexts: i.e., the conditional use. E.g. 'If X happens, Y will happen'. 'Whether' is used when there is a choice between two things. E.g. It is unclear whether the company will increase production. Meaning: the company may increase production, or it may not.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Meghna
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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30 Mar 2014, 18:21
I'm trying to understand significance and correctness of use of "one" in phrase "to see one after the animals' horns have been trimmed" in choice E. Sure the choice E don't sound as precise as option C. But what does "one" imply? It seems choice E says that tourists will continue to visit parks to see a rhinoceros (one of the many rhinoceroses) once the animals horns are trimmed. The phrase is generally used in spoken english. Is it correct?
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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01 Apr 2014, 13:32
dipsy001 wrote:
I'm trying to understand significance and correctness of use of "one" in phrase "to see one after the animals' horns have been trimmed" in choice E. Sure the choice E don't sound as precise as option C. But what does "one" imply? It seems choice E says that tourists will continue to visit parks to see a rhinoceros (one of the many rhinoceroses) once the animals horns are trimmed. The phrase is generally used in spoken english. Is it correct?

Dear @dipsy001,

Thank you for posting this question. I believe you can arrive at the answer on your own. Just pay close attention to the original sentence.

A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.

Is the original sentence saying that the tourists will see 1 rhino or many rhinos in general?

Now look at your understanding of choice E (which by the way is correct!!). Do you think the two match?

Thus without getting into the grammatical nuances, you can eliminate choice E on the account of meaning shift from the original sentence

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Payal
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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21 Jul 2014, 02:50
Is this grammatically correct ?

See those two girls. Helen is the one on the left.
here one should refer to girl.
but girl is not mentioned anywhere in the sentence.But girls is mentioned.

ravi's car broke down,so he walked back to the hotel.

here he has no referent.As ravi's car is mentioned but ravi is not mentioned.

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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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21 Jul 2014, 12:40
SidKaria wrote:
Is this grammatically correct ?

See those two girls. Helen is the one on the left.
here one should refer to girl.
but girl is not mentioned anywhere in the sentence.But girls is mentioned.

ravi's car broke down,so he walked back to the hotel.

here he has no referent.As ravi's car is mentioned but ravi is not mentioned.

Hi Sid,

Thanks for posting your doubt here.

Although the example that you have provided is way too colloquial for GMAT, your understanding of the usage of pronoun in this one is correct. When used as a pronoun, "one" like any other pronoun must have a clear antecedent and must also agree in number with its antecedent. Hence, example one does not stand.

Your analysis of the second example is also correct. "he" must refer to "Ravi". But there is no mention of "Ravi" in the sentence. "Ravi's" acts as an adjective and hence pronoun "he" cannot refer to that entity.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
SJ
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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22 Jul 2014, 11:57
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Hi Sid,

Yes, the usage of "one" would still make Options B and E both incorrect even if these choices were free of other errors.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
SJ
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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22 Jul 2014, 22:49
SidKaria wrote:
ravi's car broke down,so he walked back to the hotel.

here he has no referent.As ravi's car is mentioned but ravi is not mentioned.

On a separate note, it is interesting to note that there are at least a couple of examples in OG, where the pronoun in question does not have any direct referent, but still GMAT considers it acceptable. So, GMAT seems to be permissive in this regard.

#109, OG-13:

Among the objects found in the excavated temple were small terra-cotta effigies left by supplicants who were either asking the goddess Bona Dea's aid in healing physical and mental ills or thanking her for such help.

This is the correct answer, though there is no explicit referent of her. The silver lining is that all 5 answer choices use her, so you don't really have to choose an option based on this.
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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23 Jul 2014, 07:37
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EducationAisle wrote:
SidKaria wrote:
ravi's car broke down,so he walked back to the hotel.

here he has no referent.As ravi's car is mentioned but ravi is not mentioned.

On a separate note, it is interesting to note that there are at least a couple of examples in OG, where the pronoun in question does not have any direct referent, but still GMAT considers it acceptable. So, GMAT seems to be permissive in this regard.

#109, OG-13:

Among the objects found in the excavated temple were small terra-cotta effigies left by supplicants who were either asking the goddess Bona Dea's aid in healing physical and mental ills or thanking her for such help.

This is the correct answer, though there is no explicit referent of her. The silver lining is that all 5 answer choices use her, so you don't really have to choose an option based on this.

Hi there,

There is absolutely no problem and certainly no exception in this official question.

Please note that "her" is a Possessive Pronoun. Henec, it can very well refer to another Noun Entity in Poessessive form. This is the reason why all the answer choices use "her" because it clearly refers to the Noun Entity "Bona Dea's" that is in possessive case. In fact, Possessive Pronouns can also refer to non-possessive Noun entity in a sentence. For example:

Dia brought her dog to the exhibition. --> Here, "her" correctly refers to "Dia", a non-possessive Noun Entity.

OG13 Q#109 would have been incorrect if it had used the Pronoun "she" to refer to "Bona Dea's" because a non-possessive pronoun CANNOT refer to a Noun in Possessive Form.

Let's take a look at another official sentence where this usage is correct:

In her later poems, Phyllis Wheatley's blending of solar imagery, Judeo-Christian thought and figures, and images borrowed from ancient classicism suggests her range and depth of influences, not the least of which is her African heritage.

In this one, "her" refers to "Phyllis Whetley's", a Possesive Noun Entity. In fact, one of the answer choices uses the pronoun "she" and stands incorrect because "she", a non-possesive pronoun, CANNOT refer to possessive noun entity.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
SJ
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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23 Jul 2014, 07:42
egmat wrote:
There is absolutely no problem and certainly no exception in this official question.

Please note that "her" is a Possessive Pronoun.

Actually her is used as an object pronoun here and that's the issue.

So, an object pronoun is referring to a possessive noun.
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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08 Nov 2014, 22:50
diehard4 wrote:
21. A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.
(A) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are
(B) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one once their horns are
(C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns have been
(D) if tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns are
(E) if tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one after the animals’ horns have been

Thx

weather - means alternative
if - means condition
Here we will use weather.
So, A,B,C
A - and see - not specific - out
B- to see one once - awkwards
C- to see - correct :OA
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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07 Jan 2015, 14:13
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The question is ...(whether NOT if) only whether can follow in such structure, so eliminate D and E.
To express a puprose one must use TO SEE - eliminate A.
Eliminate (B) -> once thier horns are trimmed.... Horns form the tourists. So, we are left with C
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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01 May 2015, 01:03
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Here, I could see everyone discussed about the pronoun issue, but I have one different doubt.

(C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns have been

Option 'C' is correct as per OG..

It is mentioned as 'animals'' horn. here, term 'Animals' could be anything right say goats, deer, etc.. Doesn't the sentence distorts the intended meaning... This is the reason I didnt select any option for almost 7 mins....

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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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01 May 2015, 01:12
SivaKumarP wrote:
Here, I could see everyone discussed about the pronoun issue, but I have one different doubt.

(C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns have been

Option 'C' is correct as per OG..

It is mentioned as 'animals'' horn. here, term 'Animals' could be anything right say goats, deer, etc.. Doesn't the sentence distorts the intended meaning... This is the reason I didnt select any option for almost 7 mins....

This is because option C uses "the" animals'. So, the presence of "the" makes it evident that this option is referring to a "specific" animal and not "any" animal.
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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17 Jul 2016, 06:20
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses [#permalink]

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14 Oct 2016, 10:46
SPLIT1) "IF VS WHETHER". WHETHER IS THE CORRECT WORD TO USE BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO SHOW TWO OPTIONS. IF SHOWS CONDITIONAL, AND THAT IS NOT THE MEANING OF THE SENTENCE. D AND E ARE OUT

SPLIT2) "TO VISIT" AND "TO SEE" MAKES SENCE TO BE IN THE STRUCTURE PRESENTED BECAUSE THE OPTION THAT THE VISITORS. A CHANGES THE MEANING BECAUSE IT IMPLIES THAT BOTH ARE POSSIBLE WHEN IN FACT THE ORIGINAL MEANING SAYS ONE OR THE OTHER, NOT BOTH (USE OF WHETHER). A IS OUT.

SPLIT3) THE PRONOUN "THEIR" HAS ANTECEDENT OF THE TOURISTS. THIS IS ILLOGICAL BECAUSE THE TOURISTS DONT HAVE HORNS! B IS OUT.
Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses   [#permalink] 14 Oct 2016, 10:46

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