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A recent court decision has qualified

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A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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A recent court decision has qualified a 1998 ruling that workers cannot be laid off if
they have been given reason to believe that their jobs will
be safe, provided that
their performance remains satisfactory.

(A) if they have been given reason to believe that their jobs will
(B) if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still
(C) having been given reason for believing that their jobs would
(D) having been given reason to believe their jobs to
(E) given reason to believe that their jobs will still

Can anyone briefly explain the answer please?
Thanks
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Re: A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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New post 28 Oct 2015, 11:06
can someone explain why B is wrong.
Is it correct to use present perfect tense for "given reason?
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A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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New post 28 Oct 2015, 13:25
Nevernevergiveup wrote:
can someone explain why B is wrong.
Is it correct to use present perfect tense for "given reason?


B and C uses the word Would.

Hence B and C can be negated in my opinion.
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New post 30 Oct 2015, 01:50
I am not sure if it is true but I feel "to believe" is better than "for believing" hence went with A.

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Re: A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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New post 30 Oct 2015, 03:14
I thought this one was pretty obvious. Looking at the construction of the other four options, I found them lacking.

(A) if they have been given reason to believe that their jobs will - correct
(B) if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still - Given reason is incorrect
(C) having been given reason for believing that their jobs would - 'having been' is not grammatically correct
(D) having been given reason to believe their jobs to - see above
(E) given reason to believe that their jobs will still - there's nothing connecting this to the sentence. The word 'if' before the start of this option would have made things very interesting

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Careful, vp101. The problem with B can't be "given reason," since that is used in A, too!

The issue is with "would," but this is a little tricky. For simpler clauses, it's easy: we don't use both "if" and "would" to mark the same hypothetical event. Rather, when using "if," we follow up with "would" to show the consequence:

If my car were stolen, I would be upset.

However, if our hypothetical/conditional has more than one action in it (as in the original Q), "would" may be appropriate:

If I thought that you would believe me, I'd tell you the whole story.

So what's the difference between this and the original? You might notice that here we're using what looks like past tense ("thought"), while in A and B we're using present perfect and present, respectively. Why the difference? My example is a hypothetical (subjunctive), while the original is a simple conditional. With conditionals, we don't even use "would" for the consequence:

If Karen's sandwich falls on the floor, she will still eat it. (It's a really good sandwich.)

Since the choices here are conditional and not subjunctive, we need to leave "would" out of the sentence entirely.
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New post 31 Oct 2015, 04:49
DmitryFarber wrote:
Careful, vp101. The problem with B can't be "given reason," since that is used in A, too!

The issue is with "would," but this is a little tricky. For simpler clauses, it's easy: we don't use both "if" and "would" to mark the same hypothetical event. Rather, when using "if," we follow up with "would" to show the consequence:

If my car were stolen, I would be upset.

However, if our hypothetical/conditional has more than one action in it (as in the original Q), "would" may be appropriate:

If I thought that you would believe me, I'd tell you the whole story.

So what's the difference between this and the original? You might notice that here we're using what looks like past tense ("thought"), while in A and B we're using present perfect and present, respectively. Why the difference? My example is a hypothetical (subjunctive), while the original is a simple conditional. With conditionals, we don't even use "would" for the consequence:

If Karen's sandwich falls on the floor, she will still eat it. (It's a really good sandwich.)

Since the choices here are conditional and not subjunctive, we need to leave "would" out of the sentence entirely.


DmitryFarber

I got a bit confused regarding this concept.
can u please elaborate further.
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New post 31 Oct 2015, 09:00
DmitryFarber wrote:
Careful, vp101. The problem with B can't be "given reason," since that is used in A, too!

Hello DmitryFarber, can we use the tense to eliminate B, since A uses present perfect (have been given ), while B uses simple present (are given).

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Re: A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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Choice "A" is correct because:
If "if clause" uses present perfect tense then "main clause" (what comes after "then") should use "will/shall".

Choice "B" is wrong because:
If "if clause" uses present tense then "main clause" (what comes after "then") should use :
a) present tense verb (in case of certainty)
b) "will" (in case of prediction)

"would" is completely wrong in choice "B".

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Re: A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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HKD1710 wrote:
Choice "A" is correct because:
If "if clause" uses present perfect tense then "main clause" (what comes after "then") should use "will/shall".

Choice "B" is wrong because:
If "if clause" uses present tense then "main clause" (what comes after "then") should use :
a) present tense verb (in case of certainty)
b) "will" (in case of prediction)

"would" is completely wrong in choice "B".

+1 for Kudos :)


Your reasoning is correct regarding the choice B. Thanks for reminding me this rule.
But regarding A, can u find the reference info regarding usage of present perfect tense in if clause.
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Re: A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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Mechmeera wrote:
HKD1710 wrote:
Choice "A" is correct because:
If "if clause" uses present perfect tense then "main clause" (what comes after "then") should use "will/shall".

Choice "B" is wrong because:
If "if clause" uses present tense then "main clause" (what comes after "then") should use :
a) present tense verb (in case of certainty)
b) "will" (in case of prediction)

"would" is completely wrong in choice "B".

+1 for Kudos :)


Your reasoning is correct regarding the choice B. Thanks for reminding me this rule.
But regarding A, can u find the reference info regarding usage of present perfect tense in if clause.


I read it in some grammar book and made a note of it. here is a little elaboration of the rule:
The Rule mentioned for choice "A" is valid for present/present continuous/present perfect tense i.e. when if clause uses any of these tenses then main clause should use "will/shall". This rule is applicable when prediction is made.
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To clarify my earlier post, we want to use "would" if there's a clear condition that we're describing and that conditional is described hypothetical:

If X happened, Y would also happen.
If you helped me, I would be grateful.
I would go to the party if there were a good band playing.


If we make a simple if-then statement, we don't use "would". Notice that the main difference in the "if" part is that we don't use a past form of the verb.

If X happens, Y will also happen.
If you help me, I will be grateful.
I will go to the party if there is a good band playing


So we don't want to use "would" in B because we're not using a hypothetical. We didn't say "if they were given reasons."
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Re: A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2016, 03:19
hi,
I am not sure whether "having been given" is a correct modifier or not. What does "having been given" modify?

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WZP wrote:
hi,
I am not sure whether "having been given" is a correct modifier or not. What does "having been given" modify?


I believe it is incorrect.
As far as I know, -ing modifiers without comma modify a preceding noun. In this sentence, there is no noun "having been given" can modify.

-ing modifiers are actually resulting from ellipsis of nominative relative pronoun clauses.
You can ellipt nominative relative pronoun clauses when ①the clause is not in present perfect tense, and ②it does not have a helping verb.
When you ellipt a relative pronoun, you will also need to modify a verb: "to be" verb →simply eliminate / other verbs → change it to "-ing" form.

e.g. I met a man who eats Tofu every day.
I met a man eating Tofu everyday.

Apply this rule to the sentence.
...that workers cannot be laid off having been given..
...that workers cannot be laid off who had been given...
↑the relative pronoun clause incorrectly modifies "workers". More precisely, the clause cannot modify "workers" which is the only noun here. Therefore, "having been given" is an incorrect modifier.
(since "had been" is past perfect tense and not present perfect tense, we can ellipt relative pronoun clauses here)

Hope this helps.

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Re: A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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New post 18 Oct 2016, 14:42
anshul1208 wrote:
A recent court decision has qualified a 1998 ruling that workers cannot be laid off if
they have been given reason to believe that their jobs will
be safe, provided that
their performance remains satisfactory.

(A) if they have been given reason to believe that their jobs will
(B) if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still
(C) having been given reason for believing that their jobs would
(D) having been given reason to believe their jobs to
(E) given reason to believe that their jobs will still

Can anyone briefly explain the answer please?
Thanks


This question was a bit tricky.
A.
- we have 2 options for "if..then" clause in the present.
1. present + present: "if you freeze water, it turns into ice"
2. present +future: "if you learn hard, you will succeed".

If "workers have been given reason to believe that their jobs will be safe" then they cannot be laid off.

The tricky part is that usually the first part is present simple and not present perfect.
Now, the meaning that they have been given a reason to believe in the past and they are still believing that reason holds.

B+C are out since "reason for believing" is unidiomatic.

D. "their jobs to be safe" does not make any sense + this is not the correct use of "having ..."

E. does not properly connect to the rest of the sentence in a meaningful way. "Given" clearly relates to workers, and hence a noun modifier, but it does not touch the noun it suppose to modify. E is out.

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Re: A recent court decision has qualified [#permalink]

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New post 04 Feb 2017, 18:49
If I understand the structure well, this is the construction of if-else


workers cannot be laid off if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe
or
if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off


1. Three usage of If-else

Present simple, present/future simple-- If I go there, she will come.

past simple, would-- If she played, the team would win.

past perfect, would have--- if I had played, the team would have won the match


Can uasge in if-else construction: Is it correct to use "can" in else construction?

If I play, you can win the match. Is it incorrect?


2. A sentence from DmitryFarber's post


If I thought that you would believe me, I'd tell you the whole story.

If above sentence is correct, why the below one can not be correct?

if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off.

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New post 04 Feb 2017, 18:50
If I understand the structure well, this is the construction of if-else


workers cannot be laid off if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe
or
if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off


1. Three usage of If-else

Present simple, present/future simple-- If I go there, she will come.

past simple, would-- If she played, the team would win.

past perfect, would have--- if I had played, the team would have won the match


Can uasge in if-else construction: Is it correct to use "can" in else construction?

If I play, you can win the match. Is it incorrect?


2. A sentence from DmitryFarber's post


If I thought that you would believe me, I'd tell you the whole story.

If above sentence is correct, why the below one can not be correct?

if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off.

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New post 05 Feb 2017, 05:06
AR15J wrote:
If I understand the structure well, this is the construction of if-else


workers cannot be laid off if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe
or
if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off


1. Three usage of If-else

Present simple, present/future simple-- If I go there, she will come.

past simple, would-- If she played, the team would win.

past perfect, would have--- if I had played, the team would have won the match


Can uasge in if-else construction: Is it correct to use "can" in else construction?

If I play, you can win the match. Is it incorrect?


2. A sentence from DmitryFarber's post


If I thought that you would believe me, I'd tell you the whole story.

If above sentence is correct, why the below one can not be correct?

if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off.


Your point 1:
Yes, correct.

Your point 2:

The two sentences you mentioned do not have the same construction. To match with the first sentence, your sentence should have been:

If they are were given reason for believing to believe that their jobs would still be safe, workers can COULD not be laid off.

Compare with the first sentence you gave as example:
If I though that you would believe me, I'd (I would) tell you the whole story.

The matching verbs are marked in same colour. Blue ones are in hypothetical subjunctive mood ( simple past), pink ones are future from perspective of past, and the green ones are conditional ( past forms of future).

One standard IF-THEN structure (unlikely future event) is: IF hypothetical subjunctive ( blue font), THEN conditional ( green font).

Moreover "reason for believing" is idiomatically wrong - the correct usage is " reason to believe".

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New post 05 Feb 2017, 05:52
sayantanc2k wrote:
AR15J wrote:
If I understand the structure well, this is the construction of if-else


workers cannot be laid off if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe
or
if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off


1. Three usage of If-else

Present simple, present/future simple-- If I go there, she will come.

past simple, would-- If she played, the team would win.

past perfect, would have--- if I had played, the team would have won the match


Can uasge in if-else construction: Is it correct to use "can" in else construction?

If I play, you can win the match. Is it incorrect?


2. A sentence from DmitryFarber's post


If I thought that you would believe me, I'd tell you the whole story.

If above sentence is correct, why the below one can not be correct?

if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off.


Your point 1:
Yes, correct.

Your point 2:

The two sentences you mentioned do not have the same construction. To match with the first sentence, your sentence should have been:

If they are were given reason for believing to believe that their jobs would still be safe, workers can COULD not be laid off.

Compare with the first sentence you gave as example:
If I though that you would believe me, I'd (I would) tell you the whole story.

The matching verbs are marked in same colour. Blue ones are in hypothetical subjunctive mood ( simple past), pink ones are future from perspective of past, and the green ones are conditional ( past forms of future).

One standard IF-THEN structure (unlikely future event) is: IF hypothetical subjunctive ( blue font), THEN conditional ( green font).

Moreover "reason for believing" is idiomatically wrong - the correct usage is " reason to believe".




Thanks sayantanc2k. Your detailed explanation always helps.

1. I know only three construction of if-else, the one I mentioned in the first point.

The below construction is correct?

if present perfect, then can/may /future simple

Ex- If she has gone through the documentation, she can start analyzing the new case.

2.
1.Present simple, present/future simple-- If I go there, she will come.

2. past simple, would-- If she played, the team would win.

3. past perfect, would have--- if I had played, the team would have won the match


Which of the below constructions is correct?

If I had 10 papers, I would complete the homework

If I had 10 papers, I would have completed the homework.

I am confused that the usage of had(not as past perfect )will be considered in second or third type of if-else usage

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New post 05 Feb 2017, 12:25
AR15J wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
AR15J wrote:
If I understand the structure well, this is the construction of if-else


workers cannot be laid off if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe
or
if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off


1. Three usage of If-else

Present simple, present/future simple-- If I go there, she will come.

past simple, would-- If she played, the team would win.

past perfect, would have--- if I had played, the team would have won the match


Can uasge in if-else construction: Is it correct to use "can" in else construction?

If I play, you can win the match. Is it incorrect?


2. A sentence from DmitryFarber's post


If I thought that you would believe me, I'd tell you the whole story.

If above sentence is correct, why the below one can not be correct?

if they are given reason for believing that their jobs would still be safe, workers cannot be laid off.


Your point 1:
Yes, correct.

Your point 2:

The two sentences you mentioned do not have the same construction. To match with the first sentence, your sentence should have been:

If they are were given reason for believing to believe that their jobs would still be safe, workers can COULD not be laid off.

Compare with the first sentence you gave as example:
If I though that you would believe me, I'd (I would) tell you the whole story.

The matching verbs are marked in same colour. Blue ones are in hypothetical subjunctive mood ( simple past), pink ones are future from perspective of past, and the green ones are conditional ( past forms of future).

One standard IF-THEN structure (unlikely future event) is: IF hypothetical subjunctive ( blue font), THEN conditional ( green font).

Moreover "reason for believing" is idiomatically wrong - the correct usage is " reason to believe".




Thanks sayantanc2k. Your detailed explanation always helps.

1. I know only three construction of if-else, the one I mentioned in the first point.

The below construction is correct?

if present perfect, then can/may /future simple

Ex- If she has gone through the documentation, she can start analyzing the new case.

2.
1.Present simple, present/future simple-- If I go there, she will come.

2. past simple, would-- If she played, the team would win.

3. past perfect, would have--- if I had played, the team would have won the match


Which of the below constructions is correct?

If I had 10 papers, I would complete the homework

If I had 10 papers, I would have completed the homework.

I am confused that the usage of had(not as past perfect )will be considered in second or third type of if-else usage


The first one is correct: IF hypothetical subjunctive (simple past), THEN conditional (would).... unlilkely future event.

The second construction would be correct, if it were:
If I had had 10 papers, I would have completed the homework.
This now becomes of the form: IF past perfect, THEN conditional perfect... event that never happened in past.

(Note that "had had" is the past perfect of the verb "to have".)

Kudos [?]: 3078 [0], given: 22

A recent court decision has qualified   [#permalink] 05 Feb 2017, 12:25

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