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A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to

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A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's top 500 companies reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative.

A. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative

B. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether or not their marketing was creative

C. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to if their marketing was creative

D. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere

E. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2015, 13:21
reto wrote:
A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's top 500 companies reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative.

A. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative
B. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether or not their marketing was creative
C. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to if their marketing was creative
D. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere
E. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not


"Whether or not X was.." is incorrect idiom. B is out.
"if their marketing.." is incorect, we should use 'if' only in conditional constructions. C is out
D is change meaning. because modifier "with liittle relation.." modify brand-oriented companies in this variant

'reveals' in A should be in the past because 'survey' was conducted in the past

E is correct IMO
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jul 2015, 00:47
The themes in play are the use of an appropriate tense form for a past event, placing a modifier right next to what it modifies and using the correct idiom whether or not; I agree with Harely
Answer is E.
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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reto wrote:
A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's top 500 companies reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative.

A. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative

B. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether or not their marketing was creative

C. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to if their marketing was creative

D. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere

E. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not


Hi Guys

A, B and C are out because of the wrong tense (present > reveals) and non idiomatic use of "two times" / "wheter or not".

The official answer is D. E looks promising but it is non-idiomatic: Although this answer choice corrects the original Redundancy error by replacing two times with twice, it is stylistically flawed. Using or not after whether is redundant.

Answer D: This answer choice corrects the original Redundancy error by replacing two times with twice. It also correctly uses whether (and not if) since there is no condition present.

Harley1980 Concerning the change in meaning, I must admit, it is distracting. But meaning is the last thing which one should consider. If one sentence is stylistically flawed or non-idiomatic, we have to POE it. Do you agree?

Thanks
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A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jul 2015, 22:28
A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's top 500 companies reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative.

A. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative
Ambigous meaning

B. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether or nottheir marketing was creative
Incorrect Idiom

C. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to if their marketing was creative
Should be "whether"

D. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere
Correct!

E. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not
Incorrect idiom

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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jul 2015, 01:10
reto wrote:
reto wrote:
A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's top 500 companies reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative.

A. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative

B. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether or not their marketing was creative

C. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to if their marketing was creative

D. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere

E. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not


Hi Guys

A, B and C are out because of the wrong tense (present > reveals) and non idiomatic use of "two times" / "wheter or not".

The official answer is D. E looks promising but it is non-idiomatic: Although this answer choice corrects the original Redundancy error by replacing two times with twice, it is stylistically flawed. Using or not after whether is redundant.

Answer D: This answer choice corrects the original Redundancy error by replacing two times with twice. It also correctly uses whether (and not if) since there is no condition present.

Harley1980 Concerning the change in meaning, I must admit, it is distracting. But meaning is the last thing which one should consider. If one sentence is stylistically flawed or non-idiomatic, we have to POE it. Do you agree?

Thanks


Hello reto.

I reread D and E variants but see only:
1) pronoun "their" ambiguity

2) "whether X" vs "whether X or not" difference.
But according to Manhattan it is correct construction: "I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT."

3) and place of modifyer "with little..."

Can you, please, write what exactly unidiomatic in variant E?
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's top 500 companies reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative.

D. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere

E. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not

It is not clear from this passage, what that prepositional phrase --- with little relation to whether their marketing was creative -- is trying to modify. It could be brand –oriented companies or those that placed their focus elsewhere.

However, by virtue of its placement just next to the brand- focused companies, D makes it clear that the phrase is modifying only the brand oriented companies rather than the other companies. E is as unclear as the original text although one might argue that the said phrase is modifying the other companies. In my opinion, the phrase should modify the brand –oriented companies, since the logical meaning to the passage is that brand - orienting is the most profitable tool for higher returns on equity, notwithstanding the creativeness of the marketing. .
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jul 2015, 02:49
Harley1980 wrote:
reto wrote:
reto wrote:
A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's top 500 companies reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative.

A. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative

B. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether or not their marketing was creative

C. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to if their marketing was creative

D. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere

E. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not


Hi Guys

A, B and C are out because of the wrong tense (present > reveals) and non idiomatic use of "two times" / "wheter or not".

The official answer is D. E looks promising but it is non-idiomatic: Although this answer choice corrects the original Redundancy error by replacing two times with twice, it is stylistically flawed. Using or not after whether is redundant.

Answer D: This answer choice corrects the original Redundancy error by replacing two times with twice. It also correctly uses whether (and not if) since there is no condition present.

Harley1980 Concerning the change in meaning, I must admit, it is distracting. But meaning is the last thing which one should consider. If one sentence is stylistically flawed or non-idiomatic, we have to POE it. Do you agree?

Thanks


Hello reto.

I reread D and E variants but see only:
1) pronoun "their" ambiguity

2) "whether X" vs "whether X or not" difference.
But according to Manhattan it is correct construction: "I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT."

3) and place of modifyer "with little..."

Can you, please, write what exactly unidiomatic in variant E?


Hi Harley1980

Economist taught me that "wheter OR NOT" is non-idiomatic an should be eliminated if it occurs in the answer choices. The above explanation are the official explanation from Economist.

Maybe we have to dig deeper into the Manhattan example? Is this sentence: "I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT." from a specific question from Manhattan? Maybe it was the best of all (e.g. all other sentences included grammatical errors?)

Cheers
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A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jul 2015, 05:21
reto wrote:

Hi Harley1980

Economist taught me that "wheter OR NOT" is non-idiomatic an should be eliminated if it occurs in the answer choices. The above explanation are the official explanation from Economist.

Maybe we have to dig deeper into the Manhattan example? Is this sentence: "I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT." from a specific question from Manhattan? Maybe it was the best of all (e.g. all other sentences included grammatical errors?)

Cheers


IMO, stylistic issues should be used as the last resort to eliminate options. Also, you need to select the best out of the 5 given options. It might be that you are stuck with an option that is not the "absolute" best but is definitely the best among the given options. I know EconomistGMAT does mention that "whether or not" is redundant but you will not eliminate an answer choice if that choice mentions "whether or not" while rest of them had some blatant grammatical errors.

You can not quote any sentence in absolute terms for the rules. "I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT." may or may not be the correct option. It will not be a correct option when there is another answer choice that provides the same meaning as the sentence before while also not using "I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty."
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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Hi Harley1980

Economist taught me that "wheter OR NOT" is non-idiomatic an should be eliminated if it occurs in the answer choices. The above explanation are the official explanation from Economist.

Maybe we have to dig deeper into the Manhattan example? Is this sentence: "I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT." from a specific question from Manhattan? Maybe it was the best of all (e.g. all other sentences included grammatical errors?)

Cheers


It is excerpt form SC guide 5th edition. Part Idioms:

WHETHER... OR
RIGHT:
I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT.
WHETHER trash OR treasure, the recyclables must be picked up.

WRONG:
WHETHER trash OR ALSO treasure, the recyclables must be picked up.
WHETHER THEY BE trash OR treasure, the recyclables must go.

--------------------

In Oxford dictionary I found this:
"I'm going whether you like it or not."

--------------------

And interest article in NYTimes blogs:
http://afterdeadline.blogs.nytimes.com/ ... er-or-not/

"Here’s what The Times’s stylebook says:

whether. Often or not is redundant after whether, but not always. The phrase may ordinarily be omitted in these cases:

• When the whether clause is the object of a verb: She wonders whether the teacher will attend. (The clause is the object of wonders.)

• When the clause is the object of a preposition: The teacher will base his decision on whether the car has been repaired. (The clause is the object of on.)

• When the clause is the subject of the sentence: Whether the car will be ready depends on the mechanic. (The clause is the subject of depends.)

But when a whether clause modifies a verb, or not is needed: They will play tomorrow whether or not it rains. (The clause modifies play.)

Put more briefly, “whether” can generally stand alone when its clause is functioning as a noun, but not when the clause is serving as an adverb. Another test, courtesy of Garner’s Modern American Usage: “or not” is necessary when the phrase “whether or not” means “regardless of whether.”"

--------------------

So as I understand we can check the phrase by substitute "regardless of whether" for "whether":
Manhattan phrase:
I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT. --> I decided to eat the food, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT. --> correct

NYTimes phrase:
They will play tomorrow whether or not it rains. --> They will play tomorrow REGRDLESS OF whether or not it rains. --> correct

Oxford dictionary phrase:
I'm going whether you like it or not. --> I'm going REGARDLESS OF whether you like it or not. --> correct

Economist answer:
with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not --> with little relation to REGARDLESS OF whether their marketing was creative or not --> incorrect
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jul 2015, 08:33
I have seen lot official GMAT examples, which contain " whether or not" as incorrect choices ; I have also seen lot of correct examples which contain" whether x is good", and stop there. But is there any choice that says whether "x is good or not". I am just curious.
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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Question to Mike McGarry (Magoosh)

I found in Oxford dictionary such phrases:
“I’m going whether you like it or not.”
And also in Manhattan book:
“I decided to eat the food, WHETHER it was tasty OR NOT.”
And in NYtimes article on this topic:
“They will play tomorrow whether or not it rains”
Could you please clarify. This is some sort of styling that will be wrong on the GMAT or maybe these examples are exceptions from the rule?

Answer of Mike McGarry (Magoosh)

I’m happy to respond. :-) Here’s what I will say. The “or not” is optional, NOT necessary to the structure. It is perfectly fine include for clarity: it is always included in colloquial conversation, and it makes sense that the NYT would include it for this reason as well. I believe the OED was quoting colloquial speech in that instance, and even that MGMAT sentence is far too colloquial in subject to appear on the GMAT. I suppose including the “or not” *could* be part of a correct answer on the GMAT SC, but I have never seen the “or not” used except in wordy incorrect answers. You can rest assured that the GMAT will NOT make you decide between two versions that differ only in the presence or absence of the “or not.” It’s simply important to appreciate that we can use “whether” without the “or not.”
In all three sentences you cite here, there is something colloquial. In all three, simply removing the “or not” would make it sound awkward. Instead, the more well-spoken way to say any of these would be to replace “whether or not X” with “regardless of whether X.” For example:
“They will play tomorrow, regardless of whether it rains.”
That’s a tad more formal, and the GMAT SC tends to aim for that level.
Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jun 2017, 06:00
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A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's top 500 companies reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative.

A. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative

B. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether or not their marketing was creative

C. reveals that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to if their marketing was creative

D. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere

E. revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative or not


There is a golden rule in GMAT that, however many times, a pronoun should refer to only one noun consistently within a sentence.
This topic --achieved two times as much return on their equity as those that placed their focus elsewhere, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative. -- uses the pronoun 'their' in three contexts. But are they referring to the same noun?
1. Return on their equity --- 'their' refers to the brand-oriented companies
2. their focus refers to the nonbrand -oriented companies
2. their marketing- Not clear, but the reference could be to all the 500 companies.
This feature has been carried through in all the choices but has not been discussed much in the forum. Probably the company can explain this feature better than others.
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jun 2017, 07:01
The answer is D
revealed that companies with a brand-orientated approach achieved twice as much return on their equity, with little relation to whether their marketing was creative, as those that placed their focus elsewhere
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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 14 Aug 2017, 04:01
Is there anything wrong with using "reveals" (present tense) to describe the results of the survey?

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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to [#permalink]

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New post 14 Aug 2017, 04:01
See post - anything wrong with using present tense to describe the results?

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Re: A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to   [#permalink] 14 Aug 2017, 04:01
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A survey conducted on the marketing departments of some of Europe's to

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