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According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 01 Oct 2013, 23:52
Now, there is another GMAT Question Pack 1 question

Quote:
Because fish look through water, their eyes are very different from a mammal.

A. from a mammal
B. from a mammal's
C. from that of a mammal
D. than that of a mammal
E. than is a mammal's

OA is B here.


Can you shed some light on this contradiction?[/quote]
Let me tell you my thought process -

See, whenever I see something in possessive, I invert the things,

as in,
their eyes are very different from a mammal.
can be written as
eyes of Fish are very different from a mammal

Clearly, Illogical comparison-> Eyes with Mammal.
Secondly, different from is incorrect.

A. from a mammal - incorrect comparison.

B. from a mammal's --.> here, Eyes of fish are same as those of mammal. - Correct.

C. from that of a mammal -> Here, that is incorrect. Had it been "those", it would have been correct..
Eyes of fish are same as those of a mammal

D. than that of a mammal -> different from is incorrect

E. than is a mammal's -> different from is incorrect

Let me know in case of any doubt.

Do show me your contradiction, lets make things in place.

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 02 Oct 2013, 00:01
Quote:
Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

Wrong option
Four hundred times larger than the Moon and 400 times farther away from Earth, the Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's.

The OA explanation says that the comparison is not clear in this option. It says "Moons what?"


Ohh I see, your contradiction. Apparently, there is no such contradiction.

Here is the reasoning-
Whenever you have structure such as :
X is more than Y - Comparison should be logical.
Here, OG is correct in saying because you have two nouns in place - sky as well as size. Hence Ambiguity in place. Remember, if there is an ambiguity in place, you shouldn't consider what seems logical as in.. you may argue that sky cannot be parallel to size.. Agreed. But it is the job of the author to make things as clear as he can, not the job of reader to decipher what Author is trying to say. Had that been the case, then lawyers/ business people would certainly take an edge by writing ambiguous contracts , and then justifying the contracts per their choice.
Hence, the choice is incorrect.

Makes sense. Please let me know.

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 24 Dec 2013, 05:00
Hi all,

Either the OA here is wrong or the answer specified in GMAT Exam Pack 1 diagnostic is wrong. I got this question wrong in the diagnostic and so, I found this link. The correct answer actually is D and not E. I had given E as an answer and got it wrong. You may check this in the pdf file that I have attached.

What actually amazes me is that even the e-GMAT gurus are in the favour of the incorrect option E, despite of recurring doubts in the minds of students. Either they tailored the answer to get to the OA or GMAC made a mistake in the diagnostic test.

Please confirm what the correct answer actually is. D or E?

Best,
Keshav
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SC Doubt [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jan 2014, 22:24
Hi,

While practicing SC I encountered this question and the OA has me stumped.
So, if anyone can clarify as to what the answer should be with reasoning, would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance!! :)

Q. According to a 1996 Survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under 8,000$ a year than those that charge over 16,000$.

A. than those that charge
B. than are charging
C. than to charge
D. as charge
E. as those charging

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Re: SC Doubt [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2014, 02:03
According to a 1996 Survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under 8,000$ a year than those that charge over 16,000$.

A. than those that charge
B. than are charging
C. than to charge
D. as charge
E. as those charging

So, we have two splits :
1st split: A,B,C : than
2nd split : D,E : as

the correct idiom : more than three times as many X as Y
Hence, A,B and C OUT

Now, simplify the sentence as much as possible:

Three times as many institutions charge under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000.

The sentence pattern is:
<quantity> as many <subject> <verb phrase> as <verb phrase>.

So, we'll keep D and throw E because of parallelism. ( charge vs charging )

Hope that helps
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Re: SC Doubt [#permalink]

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In the absence of the OA, it is difficult to surmise what could have stumped the poster.

Q. According to a 1996 Survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under 8,000$ a year than those that charge over 16,000$.

A. than those that charge------- More than three times than those that charge; use of than twice is ungrammatical

B. than are charging ----same as in A

C. than to charge---- the use of infinitive does not make any sense here.

D. as charge ----Although some prefer this as the right choice because of better parallelism, still IMO, there is a serious distortion of meaning in this; The way charge is used as a noun gives a feeling that the more than three times of Institutions indulge in a charge of $8000 over and above $16000, bringing the total charge close to $24000

E. as those charging --- looks to me somewhat better than others, despite the pricking parallelism issue between those charge and as those charging.

What is the OA and source?
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Re: SC Doubt [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2014, 03:40
daagh wrote:
E. as those charging --- looks to me somewhat better than others, despite the pricking parallelism issue between those charge and as those charging.

What is the OA and source?

E cannot be the answer, because with E, the sentence will be:

...as those (institutions) charging over 16,000$ (charge)!!

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Re: SC Doubt [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2014, 14:02
I trump E over D.

I agree that Change Vs. Charging lacks llsm.. but it complies with "as many... as" llsm..

Also E trumps over D which which doesn't refer to what is actually charging..

A, B, and C are obviously out because we don't want "than" but "as"..
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Re: SC Doubt [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2014, 16:15
Thanks a lot for the prompt response people.
The OA is D, but can someone please explain why it cannot be E?

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dk09 wrote:
Thanks a lot for the prompt response people.
The OA is D, but can someone please explain why it cannot be E?


E cannot be the answer because the parallelism within the comparison is broken.

E states: "as many independent institutions ... charge ... under $8,000 ... as those charging over $16,000."
The parallel construction needs to have the same verb form, charge, and not insert the extra, non-parallel word, "those".

D states: "as many independent institutions ... charge ... under $8,000 ... as charge over $16,000."
This one has the correct verb form and doesn't include any non-parallel words.

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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I think by constructing short sentences we can understand the required structure of comparison.

example : In civil war three times as many Americans were killed as killed in Vietnam war.

as many .... Americans were killed (verb) as (verb) killed in Vietnam war.

As subject is common at both ends we just need verb after as to complete the comparision.

Option D in original question
as charge ( verb) is technically OK.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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D is the right answer.

Format of comparison changes with moving verb inside as many as or keeping it be before as many as.

For such question always look at the structure and make your own sentence in simple english.

E.g 3 times as many Americans were killed in Civil war as killed in Vietnam war. (my standard simple sentence)

bcz Americans were killed is inside as many .... as; we do not need repetition of Americans after as we just need a verb for a good construction of sentence.

Now look at this original question you will find D is technically perfect .

Another Eg:
E.g 3 times as many Americans were killed in Civil war as Indians were killed in battle of Panipath.
E.g 3 times as many Americans were killed in Civil war as Indians in battle of Panipath.

Now do'er of action are different, thus above comparison is valid.


Go to this link:
according-to-a-1996-survey-by-the-national-association-of-69882.html

HARD WIRE these simple examples in your brain as it save precious time while choosing technically right answer.
List down every possible way of comparison sentence structure and hard wire it in brain.
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Re: SC Doubt [#permalink]

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I use standard sentence as following to see the balance of comparison in given question.

Same subject doing two different action:
In world war 2 as many Americans were killed as were killed in Vietnam war. simply verb is expected in later half of comparison.

Cut the crap and compare it with above standard sentence.
as many independent institutions charge fees of under 8,000$ as charge over 16,000$.

I would suggest you write down simple sentences in every possible manner by moving verb inside outside of as many as or every possible way. This exercise will surely help you in understanding the flow of comparison.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2014, 01:17
I am not sure whether the below construction is correct

Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians. (or) (Here "do" is in ellipsis) <--- is this correct?
Correct. The structure is: Americans ...as [........] as Indians... ==> The parallel structure is maintained.

While parallel struture is maintained, the comaprison itself is ambigous if we go by the meaning.
Meaning 1: Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as they are to buy Indians
Meaning 2: Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as are Indians (I think use of do is incorrect)

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2014, 01:29
NS13983 wrote:
I am not sure whether the below construction is correct


Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians. (or) (Here "do" is in ellipsis) <--- is this correct?
Correct. The structure is: Americans ...as [........] as Indians... ==> The parallel structure is maintained.

While parallel structure is maintained, the comparison itself is ambiguous if we go by the meaning.
Meaning 1: Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as they are to buy Indians
Meaning 2: Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as are Indians (I think use of do is incorrect)


As per my knowledge Do, does and did are versatile verb you can put these verbs to replace any verb, but in above case are look much appropriate to keep parallelism. I think some expert should confirm this.

Yes following sentence is ambiguous:
Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians. (wrong)

Americans are twice as likely as Indians [are] to buy pizza (right)
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 28 Feb 2014, 07:49
Help!

Are we 100% sure that the correct answer is

E: "as those charging"?

I selected E while taking GMATPrep3 from Exam Pack 1, and my software is saying that I was incorrect. It says that the correct answer is D, "as charge." Is this a glitch???

EDIT: OA is in fact D. I found this link helpful:

http://gmatclub.com/forum/according-to-a-1996-survey-by-the-national-association-of-69882.html

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 29 Mar 2014, 03:48
According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College an University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000.
A) than those that charge
B) than are charging
C) than to charge
D) as charge
E) as those charging

this is wrong question. pls, look at gmatprep question "women over age of 30..."

According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty //than// under it.

1. than
2. than born
3. than they were
4. than they had been
5. than had been born


the rule of ellipsis is simple.
- the cut off part must be present somewhere
- the remaining part must be parallel to a phrase so that the meaning is clear or the remaining part is not parallel with some thing but the meaning is already clear. in case, both choice is clear in meaning, the choice which is parallel to some phrase is prefered and chosen.

I find out above rule.
appy the above rule. both D and E is wrong. (see the above gmatprep question )

there is no "charge over" so we can not use "charge under" or "charging under". so the remaining part is not parallel with any phrase and the remaining part itself is not clear in meaning. wong.

I am a student just willing to beat gmat. I wish experts, member comment on my above idea so that we can master ellipsis. this point is tough and need carefull consideration. pls, speak up. a student like me never want to say a question is wrong.

am I correct?
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 09 Apr 2014, 07:14
egmat wrote:
Vinay911, not sure if you are still looking for a response on this question. But here it is anyway (I am royally late in responding to this one :( )
As many posters have commented, we have to establish the correct equation here. Simplistically here is the equation we are looking for:

Since your doubt pertains to choices D and E, I will only focus on those. The difference between these two choices is in terms of what is there in the blank below. Choice D has nothing in this blank and choice E has "those that". Now you may question that choice E actually states "those charging". Remember that "those charging" is equivalent of "those that charge".

For example : cow that grazes all day long = cow grazing all day long

Ok now lets look at both constructions in terms of the equation:

Per choice D - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as ____ charge over $16000
Per choice E - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as those that charge over $16000

Now what are the entities being compared - colleges that charge < $8000 & colleges that charge > 16000
Choice E clearly states that comparison.

Whereas if you look choice D, it is missing the "COLLEGE" part of the comparison. It only states the "charge" part.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions regarding this.

Regards,
Payal

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2014, 17:54
I chose E as well, and was surprised to know that the correct answer is D :arh

Can some instructor please help with this one? Choice E completes the sentence logically, while the only thing going for Option D is that it maintains parallel structure gracefully!

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink]

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A survey compares entities/actions within a specific time frame. Here, the intent is to compare how much certain institutions (currently) charge versus how much some other institutions (currently) charge. In other words, the survey is comparing two "dynamic" entities -- based on how much they charge today:
1. X institutions (currently) charge over $16K.
2. More than 3X institutions (currently) charge under $8K. (Set C of institutions)

Choice E converts St. 1 about institutions that currently charge over $16K (a dynamic set) into a statement about institutions that have charged over $16K over the course of history ("institutions charging over $16K"). These institutions (Set A) may or may not be charging over $16K today. Additionally, other institutions that traditionally did not charge over $16K (Set B) may have hiked their fees and could be charging over $16K today.

The survey compares Set C to "Set A + Set B" but the wording of Choice E makes it compare Set C (a dynamic set) to only Set A (a static set).

By including the verb, "charge" (versus the adjective, "charging"), Choice D makes it clear that the survey correctly compares institutions that currently charge under $8K to those that currently charge over $16K.
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