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According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
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Hi Marty -

Whenever doing comparisons on the GMAT -- do you always look out the understand -- are two nouns being compared OR are two clauses being compared ? I think i struggle to understand based on the comparative structure - are 2 nouns being compared or are 2 clauses being compared

Laos has a land area as large as area of Great Britain

Would you agree in this case -- nouns are being compared
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
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Nistha86 wrote:
What is wild animal modifiying here?since it's after comma@banuel

Posted from my mobile device

In this sentence, "wild animals" does not modify anything.

"Wild animals" appears after a comma because it's the subject of the main clause of the sentence, which begins after the comma.

The core of that clause is "wild animals ... have."

The comma serves to separate what precedes the comma, which is a modifier, from the clause that follows the modifier.
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
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vyomshrivastava wrote:
How do I exactly know what is being compared, fat of wild animals or wild animals themseleves? I always get confused with this! Someone please help :)

Hi Vyom, I do think the original sentence is quite clear in terms of intended meaning:

- Wild animals have less total fat
- Livestock fed on grain have more total fat
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
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aashusuman1 wrote:
In option B .

Why is "Wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain" non ambiguos:
Is it not leading to two meanings ?

1. Wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain have less total fat ( Order )
or
2. Wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain have ( Comparison)

#2 is the only logical way to interpret the construction: we're comparing the amount of fat in wild animals to the amount of fat in grain-fed livestock, and concluding that the wild animals have less.

If I write, "Tim has fewer Legos than Tom," it wouldn't make any sense to interpret this to mean that "Tim has fewer Legos than Tom has fewer Legos," or that "Tim has fewer Legos than he has Tom," right? So it must mean that we're comparing how many Legos Tim has to how how many Tom has.

If there's only one coherent meaning, there's no ambiguity.

I hope that clears things up!
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
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IN2MBB2PE wrote:
GMATNinja wrote:
aashusuman1 wrote:
In option B .

Why is "Wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain" non ambiguos:
Is it not leading to two meanings ?

1. Wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain have less total fat ( Order )
or
2. Wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain have ( Comparison)

#2 is the only logical way to interpret the construction: we're comparing the amount of fat in wild animals to the amount of fat in grain-fed livestock, and concluding that the wild animals have less.

If I write, "Tim has fewer Legos than Tom," it wouldn't make any sense to interpret this to mean that "Tim has fewer Legos than Tom has fewer Legos," or that "Tim has fewer Legos than he has Tom," right? So it must mean that we're comparing how many Legos Tim has to how how many Tom has.

If there's only one coherent meaning, there's no ambiguity.

I hope that clears things up!


Great discussions in this post ... maybe a good item to cover next SC Video would be "Ellipsis" .... I picked A as the right answer because I thought "they" is referring to "studies". As per the rulebook of Pronoun, "they" can refer to both "living" and "non-living" things, such as - we use "they" to refer to companies, why "they" cannot refer to studies? Is this an exception to the rule?

Also, for (C), Why can't we compare the "total fat" content b/w the animals, is not what (C) is doing? I still do not understand why it produces an illogical meaning ...

GMATNinja AndrewN Please help ... this question is killing me ...


Hello IN2MBB2PE,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, "they" can refer to both non-living and living things; its usage is incorrect here because "they" cannot logically refer to "studies", "wild animals", or "livestock": taking "wild animals" or "livestock" as the referent of "they" would illogically imply that animals hold an opinion on cardiac health, and the noun "studies" cannot logically be said to take the action of "thinking".

A noun such as "study", "book", "article", etc, can be said to "say" something, "convey" something, or take any other verb that refers to conveying information, but it cannot be said to "think", as in formulating thoughts; the action of "thinking" can only be ascribed to the author of the work.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
how could B be the answer , fat of wild animals is compared with livestock
it should be "WILD ANIMALS HAVE LESS TOTAL FAT THAN LIVE STOCK FED ON GRAIN HAVE "
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
Ridhimajain96 wrote:
how could B be the answer , fat of wild animals is compared with livestock
it should be "WILD ANIMALS HAVE LESS TOTAL FAT THAN LIVE STOCK FED ON GRAIN HAVE "



Hello Ridhimajain96,

I will be glad to help you out with this one. :-)

Following is the excerpt from the passage that presents the comparison in Choice B:

...wild animals have less total fat than livestock...

In the above structure, wild animals have been correctly compared to livestock.

The thing is the verb have or the helping verb do in place of have is understood after than because such omission does not lead to any ambiguity in comparison.

In total, there are three nouns in the above-mentioned structure - wild animals, livestock, and total fat. Needless to say that only the first two noun entities can be logically compared in the context of this sentence. Wild animals cannot be logically compared to total fat.

Such omissions are NOT allowed when doing so leads to ambiguous comparison.

You may go through our elaborate article named HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON to understand in which sentences we must use the helping verb in the second part of the comparison and in which sentence we not in the following link:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/how-far-ellipsis-is-permissible-in-comparison-148973.html


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha







EGMAT

According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat from wild animals and meat from domesticated animals, wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is good for cardiac health.

A. wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is
B. wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be

THIS STRUCTURE SUGGESTS THAT WILD ANIMALS HAVE TOTAL FAT AND LIVESTOCK ,BUT WILD ANIMALS HAVE TOTAL FAT LESS THAN LIVESTOCK
C. wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be
D. total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed on grain and they have more fat of a kind thought to be
E. total fat is less in wild animals than that of livestock fed on grain and more of their fat is of a kind they think is


1.WILD ANIMALS HAVE LESS TOTAL FAT THAN LIVESTOCK
2.LIVESTOCK HAVE TOTAL FAT LESS THAN LIVE STOCK
3.LIVESTOCK HAVE LESS TOTAL FAT LESS THAN LIVESTOCK HAVE.
MA'AM ,CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN ALL THREE COMPARISONS. THEY ARE VERY CONFUSING
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
Hello JAIN09,

I apologize for getting back to this post so late.

A. wild animals have less total fat than do livestock
B. wild animals have less total fat than livestock



Both these structures correctly present the intended comparison. The only two logical entities that can be compared in these structures are wild animals and livestock.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha

Hi Shraddha
would you please elaborate further about the sentence B.
I think i must miss something, because i thought sentence B is ambiguous.
there are two ways to understand it
#1wild animals have less total fat than livestock [/i] have
#2 wild animals have less total fat than livestock [/i]

Please,
Waiting for your reply

Thanks in advance

Have a lovely day
>_~
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
GMATNinja wrote:

Quote:
B. wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be

There’s no pronoun here, so that’s cool. And I think the meaning works: “wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain” is fine. The second part seems fine, too: “wild animals have… more of a kind of fat thought to be good for cardiac health.”

I don’t see any huge issues, so let’s keep (B).

Quote:
C. wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be

As described in our rambling guide to the word “that”, “that” is a singular pronoun in this type of situation. In (C), I guess it has to refer to “total fat,” but that doesn’t really make sense: “wild animals have less total fat than the total fat of livestock fed on grain…”

That’s kind of a mess. Wild animals have less fat than livestock, but it wouldn’t make sense to say that “wild animals have less total fat.. than the total fat…” That comparison is thoroughly wrong. (C) is out.



GMATNinja egmat

My logic for this question is as follows,

In this first part of options B & C we are comparing total fat in wild animals to that in livestock. Considering this can we not think of
B - as comparing the "total fat in wild animals" to "livestock" (as in the animals)
C - the that here can refer to fat in "total fat" & this clears up the above confusion

Can you help me understand where I am wrong in the above analysis?
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
GMATNinja

Thanks for your reply.

Both in option B & In the example you gave "I have a smaller house than my neighbor has." Can i say that the "than" creates a parallelism effect & hence the fat/house is implied on the other side?

Also is this an elliptical clause.
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
A. wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is

what i want to know is "wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain" - is this part correct grammatically ?

What is the rule for "do" ? where should it be used ?
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
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nlx23 wrote:
A. wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is

what i want to know is "wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain" - is this part correct grammatically ?

What is the rule for "do" ? where should it be used ?

Hi nlx23, do in option A correctly substitutes for have.

Note that do, does and did are all forms of the verb to do. These forms of to do verbs are very flexible; they can stand for the main verb in the sentence.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses to do verbs, their application and examples in significant detail. If you or someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
GMATNinja wrote:

Quote:
B. wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be

There’s no pronoun here, so that’s cool. And I think the meaning works: “wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain” is fine. The second part seems fine, too: “wild animals have… more of a kind of fat thought to be good for cardiac health.”

I don’t see any huge issues, so let’s keep (B).

Quote:
C. wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be

As described in our rambling guide to the word “that”, “that” is a singular pronoun in this type of situation. In (C), I guess it has to refer to “total fat,” but that doesn’t really make sense: “wild animals have less total fat than the total fat of livestock fed on grain…”
the most straightforward issue.

Please help me explain this question...
why the comparison in C is wrong? wild animals have less total fat than the total fat of livestock. this compares the total fat of both animals. on Contrary, B compares total fat with the number of livestock.
comparison in B looks illogical whereas in C looks correct.
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
GMATNinja wrote:
A few of my best students have gotten their asses thoroughly kicked by this one, so please don’t feel badly if you struggled with it. (And most of the early responses look great!) Success on this question is mostly about your ability to be incredibly literal with the meaning, particularly as it relates to the pronouns in the sentence. (For more on pronouns, check out our good old YouTube webinar on the topic.)

Quote:
A. wild animals have less total fat than do livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat they think is

“They” has to refer back to a plural noun, but our only options are “studies” (which makes no sense, because studies can’t think) or “wild animals” (which also makes no sense, unless you think wild animals moonlight as nutritionists. (A) is out.

Quote:
B. wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be

There’s no pronoun here, so that’s cool. And I think the meaning works: “wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain” is fine. The second part seems fine, too: “wild animals have… more of a kind of fat thought to be good for cardiac health.”

I don’t see any huge issues, so let’s keep (B).

Quote:
C. wild animals have less total fat than that of livestock fed on grain and have more fat of a kind thought to be

As described in our rambling guide to the word “that”, “that” is a singular pronoun in this type of situation. In (C), I guess it has to refer to “total fat,” but that doesn’t really make sense: “wild animals have less total fat than the total fat of livestock fed on grain…”

That’s kind of a mess. Wild animals have less fat than livestock, but it wouldn’t make sense to say that “wild animals have less total fat.. than the total fat…” That comparison is thoroughly wrong. (C) is out.

Quote:
D. total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed on grain and they have more fat of a kind thought to be

This comparison is very clearly wrong: “total fat… is less than livestock.” You could, I suppose, also argue that the “they” isn’t 100% clear – but the illogical comparison is the most straightforward issue. (D) is out, too.

Quote:
E. total fat is less in wild animals than that of livestock fed on grain and more of their fat is of a kind they think is

There’s a lot of clunkiness here, but the biggest issue is the word “they”: the only possible referents are “wild animals”, “livestock”, or “studies.” And none of those are likely to “think [that fat] is good for cardiac health.” (E) is gone, and (B) is the best answer.


Dear GMATNinja,

Thanks for detailed explanation.

"Dear Team,
I have a doubt in option B. Comparison is done between ""wild animals have less total fat"" and ""livestock"" which is illogical. It should be ""livestock's "". Kindly suggest

According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat from wild animals and meat from domesticated animals, wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be good for cardiac health.

Thanks in advance

bb generis
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
GMATNinja VeritasKarishma
Quote:
B. wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain and more of a kind of fat thought to be

I struck off B as it had a passive voice construction. Where am i going wrong in thinking that "passive construction is almost always wrong on GMAT". I reasoned that since we do not know here who does the thinking in "kind of thought to be", hence (B) can't be the right answer choice.
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
Hi,

I am having trouble in identifying what are being compared especially in D.
D states that "total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed of grain"---> Doesnt this mean that total fat of wild animals is less than total fat of livestock.
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Re: According to recent studies comparing the nutritional value of meat fr [#permalink]
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krishnabalu wrote:
Hi,

I am having trouble in identifying what are being compared especially in D.
D states that "total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed of grain"---> Doesnt this mean that total fat of wild animals is less than total fat of livestock.


Hello krishnabalu!

In option D, it is comparing fat to animals, which isn't parallel. An easy way to check for this is to eliminate any prepositional phrases you can find. Prepositional phrases are there to add extra information - but they can also confuse readers! Here is what it looks like if we cross them out:

total fat of wild animals is less than livestock fed of grain

If we eliminate the extra information, we can clearly see that this option is trying to compare total fat to livestock, which is NOT parallel! It should compare fat to fat, or animal to animal.

If we look at the correct option, we see a parallel comparison:

(B) wild animals have less total fat than livestock fed on grain

This option is comparing animals to animals, which is parallel. The basis for comparison is their total fat, which is clearly indicated here.

I hope this helps!
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