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Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo

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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jul 2010, 07:29
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59. Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it


i see one more split here: the use of the word "insecure"

the use of this word in C and E option, they does not mean the same so one can easily reject the options

Now we are left with A,B and D : Again the D the use of the word is awkward, so we reject D

Between A and B, i choose B as A is wordy

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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jul 2011, 22:02
Please explain clearly whats wrong in D???is it passive?
also pls. explain when to use "it" and when to use "that"?
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jul 2011, 02:33
'B' seems to be more appropriate as , 'would' should be appropriate than 'was'
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 30 Aug 2011, 00:32
C,E) 'it' is ambiguous and could refer to algeria or morocco.
D) 'assumed that without that' is awkward.

so it really is between A and B. 'insecure' could mean 'lacking confidence'.

B is clear and the best ans.
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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Multiple issues:
1. This construction implies a conditional. Check the if constrcution.
Also note that, not every conditional requires an if.Also, then can be correctly omitted from If-then constructions.
One more rule. was cannot be used in conditional's mail clause. Conditional calls for would
We have a split between if and non-if clauses. Both splits are correct, because the non-if clause still correctly indicates the meaning of a conditional. subject assumed that without something, something would happen - A clear conditional.
Choice A uses was in place of would - incorrect
Choice B correct use of would
Choice C - again, incorrect was
Choice D - could - an acceptable conditional but changes the meaning
choice E - would - correct

Other issues
A - wordy, awkward
B - correct
C - not ever: wordy ; what does pronoun it refer to? Morocco, Algeria or grip?
D - that - incorrect pronoun, could: changes meaning.
E - Correct verb, correct tense. but - the inversion? Only in poems, not on the gmat. and the pronoun it again.
(Note however that I have seen many OG problems whose correct choices have a pronoun with multiple possible antecedents. I would suggest that one doesn't eliminate such choices right away only on this basis)
One more issue: Secure about theri grip in C has different meaning than intended; intended meaning is a secure grip.
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 22 Sep 2011, 08:13
seofah wrote:
59. Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it


Hi Friends,
I have problem in relating the pronouns such as "it" and "they" with actual nouns ( if there are multiple nouns and pronouns).
Anybody, please guide me a practical way out for pronoun reference w.r.t. subject/object etc.
Regards
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 08 Dec 2011, 03:05
seofah wrote:
bmw, thanks for bringing the question back!
OA is B

Lets see B:
Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure

Oranges agree with each other
Blues agree with each other

beckee, the above is slightly different to what you stated; you may wish to revisit or show that I am bullsh*tting :-D

For analysis of other choice, see below:
botirvoy wrote:

59. Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
wrong usage of contional sentence -"was" is wrongly used; change of meaning via "insecure"
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure CORRECT -OA!
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
wrong usage of contional sentence; "was not ever"?? -out!
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
"that" is ambiguous; badly constructed
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it
inverted; does not tally well with ununderlined section;wrong usage of contional sentence


pls, help.

you said that in A and C , "was" is wrong. Do you mean

the pattern : if X did somthing, Y would do something

is correct

and the pattern : if X did something, Y did something

is wrong

is that right? you mean that gmat grammar permits only the first pattern, not the second pattern.

pls, help.

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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jan 2012, 22:59
Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it

Query - There is NO "if-then" statement how to identify if we require conditional

P.S. Please don't post your answer, i know B is correct and why others are wrong.

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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 11 Jun 2012, 03:31
My understanding :

A : If ( didn't hold )................. WAS = eliminated
C : Was .............. if they didn't hold = eliminated
D : assumed THAT........ without THAT = eliminated

of E n B :

E : ...............if they didnt hold IT = Morocco is not a thing to hold = eliminated
B : ............... without IT ie without Morocco = logical form
Leading to B

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New post 11 Jun 2012, 19:35
in option there is 'if...then construction' and hence the second statement should be using 'would'. check MGMAT SC for tenses
in option e and c 'it' seems to refer to algeria.
in option d the whole statement reads 'that without that' which is awkward

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New post 20 Jul 2012, 10:36
Came down to choosing between A and B for me.

B has the correct setup of "it" correctly referring Morocco and also would never be secure sounded the best option among the alternatives.
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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WhyabloodyMBA wrote:
Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.

(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it


Let's try to solve this with the e-GMAT process.

Meaning:
The sentence is telling us that Morocco was of interest to the French throughout (for the entire time) of the first half of the 20th century (so 1900-1950 approximately) for two reasons:
- It (referring to Morocco) was close to the Strait of Gibraltar and;
- It (referring to Morocco) was needed to keep a strong grip on Algeria, and without Morocco, this grip on Algeria would not last

Error analysis:
Clause 1: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century
Clause 2: because they assumed
Clause 3: that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.

Clause 1 has correct subject verb agreement as well as correct placement of modifier "affording strategic..." clearly modifying "Morocco." Correct tense. No errors here.
Clause 2: correct subject verb agreement, correct tense. No errors here.
Clause 3: "they" and "their" refers to "the French" which is correct. Therefore, there is no pronoun error. However, there is tense error with the second part of clause 3 "their grip on Alberia was always insecure." It cannot be that the French always had an insecure grip on Algeria since the conditional statement is setting up a hypothetical situation. Therefore the word "would" be more appropriate here resulting in: their grip on Algeria would always be insecure.

Answer Choice Analysis:
A: wrong for reason mentioned above
B: correct answer.
C: their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it. Repeats the same error as choice a. Also uses "not ever secure" which is needlessly wordy and awkward. The "it" in this choice can refer to "grip on Algeria" or "Algeria" or "Morocco". Leads to confusion. Incorrect.
D: What is "that" referring to? It's not the right pronoun to refer to Morocco; a simple "it" is enough. Incorrect.
E: repeats pronoun error from choice c.

Correct answer: B

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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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69. Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it

[Reveal] Spoiler:
This question has been already disscused many times on forum but I have one question. The OG guide has explaination for D is " It, not that , should be used to refer back to Morocco". Is it true in all cases ?

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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 16 Aug 2012, 18:49
The word "that" is used to refer to a concept--in this case, it feels like it would actually refer to "strategic proximity".

"I love him." That is what I said. That refers to the phrase. I can't say for sure that it is ALWAYS this way, but generally that replaces a phrase or a concept, not an object.
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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machichi wrote:
The word "that" is used to refer to a concept--in this case, it feels like it would actually refer to "strategic proximity".

"I love him." That is what I said. That refers to the phrase. I can't say for sure that it is ALWAYS this way, but generally that replaces a phrase or a concept, not an object.


Thanks for your response but does not look like that it is always true. I just found below defination for that and it as pronoun. I know OG author won't be wrong but would like to understand that can we generalize this idea or it is just applicable in few instances :?:

Pronoun that :
1.(used to indicate a person, thing, idea, state, event, time, remark, etc., as pointed out or present, mentioned before, supposed to be understood, or by way of emphasis): That is her mother. After that we saw each other.
2.(used to indicate one of two or more persons, things, etc., already mentioned, referring to the one more remote in place, time, or thought; opposed to this ): This is my sister and that's my cousin.
3.(used to indicate one of two or more persons, things, etc., already mentioned, implying a contrast or contradistinction; opposed to this ): This suit fits better than that.
4.(used as the subject or object of a relative clause, especially one defining or restricting the antecedent, sometimes replaceable by who, whom, or which ): the horse that he bought.
5.(used as the object of a preposition, with the preposition standing at the end of a relative clause): the farm that I spoke of.

Pronoun IT
1.(used to represent an inanimate thing understood, previously mentioned, about to be mentioned, or present in the immediate context): It has whitewall tires and red upholstery. You can't tell a book by its cover.
2.(used to represent a person or animal understood, previously mentioned, or about to be mentioned whose gender is unknown or disregarded): It was the largest ever caught off the Florida coast. Who was it? It was John. The horse had its saddle on.
3.(used to represent a group understood or previously mentioned): The judge told the jury it must decide two issues.
4.(used to represent a concept or abstract idea understood or previously stated): It all started with Adam and Eve. He has been taught to believe it all his life.
5.(used to represent an action or activity understood, previously mentioned, or about to be mentioned): Since you don't like it, you don't have to go skiing.
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 29 Aug 2012, 03:54
Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.

D : ........Because French (THEY) assumed THAT.......... without THAT......... ( Does this sent at all makes sense?),

Thus not a genralisation but contextually THAT here simply doesn't work ..................... and IT comes into the picture to refer back to Morocco.

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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 29 Aug 2012, 06:46
What happens between the use of that and it, as I see, is that while – that- could be used only in places where you can physically point one or the other, usually the distant thing, such as only in conversations with someone else; to that extent, the more informal usage of the demonstrative pronoun is not usable interchangeably with - it-
Hence the concept cited by GMATPrep in this case is universal, IMO. This is a general point, and save for the disclaimer that there may be some odd cases, where this rule may be breached,of which I am not aware.
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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2013, 23:41
1.(used to indicate a person, thing, idea, state, event, time, remark, etc., as pointed out or present, mentioned before, supposed to be understood, or by way of emphasis): That is her mother. After that we saw each other.
2.(used to indicate one of two or more persons, things, etc., already mentioned, referring to the one more remote in place, time, or thought; opposed to this ): This is my sister and that's my cousin.

those things are incorrect on gmat. sory

on gmat, "this"/"that" is never used as stand alone pronoun. Ron said.

there pronouns are used in paralel strucuture to refer to a noun in previous phrase. the noun refered is different from the noun in previous phrase

my spirit to learn gmat is good, and that of my friend is good aslo.

"that" refers to "spirit of my friend" which is different from the spirit of mine

on the other hand, "it" pronoun is different. "it" refer to the same thing which appear in the previous phrase

my spirit to learn gmat is good; it is high

"it" refers to total "my spirit to learn gmat"
we can not say
my spirit to learn gmat is good; that is high
above sentend is wrong on gmat though correct in general English.

come back to the problem
Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that// if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.//
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it

this is great question.
according to above analysis, "that" in D is wrong.
in E, inverted "would" is wrong. there is no this structure on general grammar.

the problem I doubt is about A and C

because the authou assumed, we need hypathetical sentence "if did, would do" . there is no "would" in A and C. Wrong.

the pattern in A and C dose exist but is used to say about past observation, which is not the case in the question. for example,

if in the past, any one passed gmat, he/she get hight scholarship

this is correct sentence but this pattern is wrong in the posted problem

pls, comment/supplement/modify the above thinking. Thank you
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New post 13 Jun 2013, 06:13
I go with B since it is better structured between the two sentences which use would. However, OG's explanation to why E is wrong is confusing. OG says Choice is awkward( Agreed) and the pronoun it could refer to either Morocco or Algeria.

But the same goes with their correct answer B. Both of them use their grip on Algeria.

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Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo [#permalink]

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Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.

(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
Wrong. Grammar problem. If + simple past, then + would ==> "was" is incorrect.

(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
Correct. Normally, pronoun should refer to CLOSEST antecedent --> "It" refers to "Morocco" correctly.

(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
Wrong. Grammar problem. Same as A. "was" is incorrect.

(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
Wrong. "that" is wrong, "it" is correct. (We use "that/those" for different copies of antecedents).

(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it
Wrong. The structure of E is: X was of interest to Y because Y assumed that never would Y's grip on Z be secure if Y did not hold "it". if "it" refers to CLOSEST noun --> "it" refers to Z (Algeria). That's wrong.

TAKEAWAY: be ware of "middle man", (noun/noun phrase between antecedents and pronouns)
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Kudos [?]: 3603 [1], given: 123

Re: Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo   [#permalink] 23 Aug 2013, 14:27

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Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Mo

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