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All of John's friends say they know

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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jul 2010, 10:34
I went for D but now clearly understand that it should be E.

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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jul 2010, 19:39
marked B ...but I undrstand its E thnx

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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jul 2010, 15:20
Testluv wrote:
Hi,

in inference questions that ask for what "must be true?", it is a great strategy to deal with every statement as a fact. A big mistake many people make with this question type is to identify conclusion and evidence. There's no point in doing that.

What you should do is exactly this:

--treat every sentence as a fact, as true--no doubt about it
--see if you can combine the facts to arrive at a deduction
--aggressively scan for a choice that matches that deduction (you don't have to decide whether a choce is right or wrong the first time you read it--you just go through the choices aggressively looking for one that matches your prediction)
--select that choice, not care one whit about the other choices, and move on.

Let's do that here.

The first sentence is pretty easy to understand: All of Jon's friends say they know a heavy smoker who is, yet, healthy. But the second sentence tells us that John doesn't know anyone like that, and we also know it must be true that:

Quote:
it is quite certain that he is not unique among his friends in this respect


Therefore, despite what they "say", at least one of his friends is lying--that's it, that's our deduction.

Let's scan for the match..

Then, choice E clearly matches.

The passage does not establish that all of John's friends know the same life-long smoker. If we deny choice C--if John's friends didin't all know the same smoker--then no part of the passage is falsified. Thus, the passage has not proved that choice C must be true.


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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2010, 02:45
E looks fine to me but at the same time A can also be a contender. Expert pls advise what is wrong with A?
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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2010, 12:23
RenukaD wrote:
E looks fine to me but at the same time A can also be a contender. Expert pls advise what is wrong with A?



Hi,

we can't infer anything about smokers themselves lying. We can infer that some people who say they know healthy heavy smokers are lying.

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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2010, 19:57
Testluv wrote:
RenukaD wrote:
E looks fine to me but at the same time A can also be a contender. Expert pls advise what is wrong with A?



Hi,

we can't infer anything about smokers themselves lying. We can infer that some people who say they know healthy heavy smokers are lying.


Thanks Testluv . Now it is clear to me :)
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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 04 Aug 2010, 00:47
alexBLR thanks ...........good explanation .....I was floored and went for B.....

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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 12 Sep 2010, 03:58
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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 13 Sep 2010, 02:42
I went with 'C'..Didnt understand the 'unique' part.Now its clear..
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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 22 Sep 2010, 20:16
I went for D, but I guess E would be stronger to make John not unique. Thanks

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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 01 Oct 2010, 14:29
E seems more reasonable than D, because for John not to be unique amongst his friends only one needs to not be telling the truth (i.e. "Some" is more reasonable than the more extreme "Most"). . .so E.

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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 03 Dec 2010, 08:40
I don't fully understand the difference b/n some and most. Some could mean half, less than half or more than half most means definitely more than half. Am I right? And if that is the case how would one be able to tell the difference between the two choices? :roll:
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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 03 Dec 2010, 12:51
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mariyea wrote:
I don't fully understand the difference b/n some and most. Some could mean half, less than half or more than half most means definitely more than half. Am I right? And if that is the case how would one be able to tell the difference between the two choices? :roll:


Some means 'at least 1'.
Most means 'greatest quantity'.
e.g. He got the most votes.
If there were 3 people, he could have had 40 votes. So it isn't necessarily more than half. Just 'any majority'.
Most of his friends would imply more than 50% since there will be two groups only - his friends who are telling the truth and his friends who are not telling the truth.

We can say that at least 1 of his friends is lying (so that he is not unique). There is no reason to say that more than 50% of his friends are lying.
Though, ambiguous question according to GMAT standards. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 03 Dec 2010, 17:04
vaivish1723 wrote:
All of John’s friends say they know someone who has smoked 40 cigarettes a day for the past 40 years and yet who is really fit and well. John does not know anyone like that and it is quite certain that he is not unique among his friends in this respect.
If the statements in the passage are true, then which one of the following must also be true?
(A) Smokers often lie about how much they smoke. the question has nothing to do about smokers lying but more about John's friends
(B) People often knowingly exaggerate without intending to lie. we can deduce this from the argument
(C) All John’s friends know the same lifelong heavy smoker. no in fact this is counter to the stmt which mentions John is quite certain he is not unique among his friends in this respect
(D) Most of John’s friends are not telling the truth. we don't know how many of his friends are telling the truth or not
(E) Some of John’s friends are not telling the truth.correct at least one friend (which qualifies as some) is not telling the truth

Oa is
[Reveal] Spoiler:
e


Why cant c be OA?

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Re: All of John s friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 06 Dec 2010, 06:34
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
mariyea wrote:
I don't fully understand the difference b/n some and most. Some could mean half, less than half or more than half most means definitely more than half. Am I right? And if that is the case how would one be able to tell the difference between the two choices? :roll:


Some means 'at least 1'.
Most means 'greatest quantity'.
e.g. He got the most votes.
If there were 3 people, he could have had 40 votes. So it isn't necessarily more than half. Just 'any majority'.
Most of his friends would imply more than 50% since there will be two groups only - his friends who are telling the truth and his friends who are not telling the truth.

We can say that at least 1 of his friends is lying (so that he is not unique). There is no reason to say that more than 50% of his friends are lying.
Though, ambiguous question according to GMAT standards. I wouldn't worry about it.


That was very helpful Karishma! Thank you :)
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All of John's friends say they know someone who has smoked [#permalink]

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New post 17 Dec 2010, 07:07
All of John's friends say they know someone who has smoked 40 cigarettes a day for the past 40 years and yet who is really fit and well. John does not know anyone like that and it is quite certain that he is not unique among his friends in this respect.

If the statements in the passage are true, then which one of the following must also be true?

(A) Smoking often lie about how much they smoke.
(B) People often knowingly exaggerate without intending to lie.
(C) All John's friends know the same lifelong heavy smoker.
(D) Most of John's friends are not telling the truth.
(E) Some of John's friends are not telling the truth.

Last edited by Zarrolou on 05 Jun 2013, 00:22, edited 1 time in total.
Edited the question.

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Re: need help in CR to sort out doubt ?? [#permalink]

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New post 17 Dec 2010, 12:33
aimkp wrote:
All of John's friends say they know someone who has smoked 40 cigarettes a day for the past 40 years and yet who is really fit and well. John does not know anyone like that and it is quite certain that he is not unique among his friends in this respect.
If the statements in the passage are true, then which one of the following must also be true?
(A) Smoking often lie about how much they smoke.
(B) People often knowingly exaggerate without intending to lie.
(C) All John's friends know the same lifelong heavy smoker.
(D) Most of John's friends are not telling the truth.
(E) Some of John's friends are not telling the truth.


Hi!

Here we have an inference question - we're looking for a conclusion that MUST be true based on one or more of the statements in the stimulus.

Inference stimuli are not arguments (i.e. they don't contain evidence, a conclusion and rely on assumptions) - they're usually just a loose collection of facts. Accordingly, it's very difficult to predict the answer to an inference question. Instead, we evaluate each choice, asking if it MUST be true.

Paraphrasing the stimulus:

All John's friends make a claim; John can't make the same claim; it's certain that some of his friends can't as well.

To the choices:

A) Assuming the first word should be "smokers" - no info about what smokers say about their own habits - outside the scope, eliminate A.

B) People "often"... as soon as you see the word "often", we know that B is too extreme. We can't extrapolate about what often happens based on a small sample size. In general, beware of extreme answers on inference questions.

C) The stimulus actually tells us that some of John's friends are in the same position as John, i.e. they can't really make the claim. (C), therefore, must be false - eliminate.

D) We know that John isn't unique, but "most" is too extreme - eliminate (D).

E) Perfect! If John isn't unique among his friends in not being able to make the claim, but ALL of his friends have made it, then SOME of them must be lying - choose (E)!

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Re: need help in CR to sort out doubt ?? [#permalink]

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New post 26 Dec 2010, 16:05
To skovinsky,

My ans is D. Would you explain a little bit why can't it be D?

From my view, What if John is really unique, would the ans is D?
Moreover, the question state quite clear that all of his friends know sbd smoke hard but still healthy.
Since the question is extreme, our answer should extreme too.

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Re: need help in CR to sort out doubt ?? [#permalink]

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New post 26 Dec 2010, 18:38
Thanet wrote:
To skovinsky,

My ans is D. Would you explain a little bit why can't it be D?

From my view, What if John is really unique, would the ans is D?
Moreover, the question state quite clear that all of his friends know sbd smoke hard but still healthy.
Since the question is extreme, our answer should extreme too.

thanet


+1 E

Cannot be D because the argument mentions "...he is not unique among his friends in this respect". In this sense, probably there is only one of his friends who is providing wrong information. Thefore, you cannot say that MOST of his friends are not telling the truth.
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Re: need help in CR to sort out doubt ?? [#permalink]

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New post 26 Dec 2010, 21:50
Good explanation.

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Re: need help in CR to sort out doubt ??   [#permalink] 26 Dec 2010, 21:50

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