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Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f

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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2012, 08:39
shikhar wrote:
Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed. Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
Out of Scope
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
Out of Scope again
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
shungite is made entirely of carbon, nothing new here
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
left over choice, unknown crystalline structure != spherical molecules
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.

if this is the case, it helps the argument

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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jun 2012, 11:00
noboru wrote:
and what about E?
If the sunghite is formed only under distinctive conditions (different from those of the lab and therefore different from the Earth's crust).



Hi noburu,

I precisely see your point here simply because I had the same choice & explanation. I'm shocked to see why nobody has replied to this.

Probably, distinctive conditions - in which shingite is formed, here probably what I reckon the framer of the question/others in the forum consider is - dist.cond. refers to the same dist.cond of the lab. Not the actual meaning of distinctive conditions, i.e., varied conditions and hence discoverers can get no clue of it... incomplete question i feel...

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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jun 2012, 23:54
raghupara wrote:
noboru wrote:
and what about E?
If the sunghite is formed only under distinctive conditions (different from those of the lab and therefore different from the Earth's crust).



Hi noburu,

I precisely see your point here simply because I had the same choice & explanation. I'm shocked to see why nobody has replied to this.

Probably, distinctive conditions - in which shingite is formed, here probably what I reckon the framer of the question/others in the forum consider is - dist.cond. refers to the same dist.cond of the lab. Not the actual meaning of distinctive conditions, i.e., varied conditions and hence discoverers can get no clue of it... incomplete question i feel...



Sunghite just houses these fullerenes... So, that's a little out of scope..

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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2012, 08:42
what is the difficulty level of this question?
I went with C :(

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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2012, 09:18
Ron's explanation in mgmat forum.

(b) is wrong because it's irrelevant.

the point is that fullerenes occur in nature. if the naturally occurring fullerenes are like the ones manufactured in the lab, then we can infer conclusions about the state of the primeval earth.

the occurrence of fullerenes elsewhere - even if they're found on the shelf of the local grocery store - does nothing to undermine this connection.
nothing.

--

choice (d), on the other hand, basically says "hey man, the natural fullerenes and the lab fullerenes are apples and oranges."
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2012, 08:38
in this question I want to discuss one important point. pls discuss with me

normally , I prethink an assumption for weaken/strengthen question.

prethink: author assume that there is only ONE condition which make the F. if there is 2 conditions we can not infer the condition on the earth.

go to answer choices, look for the information which said F can be made at 2 conditions.

I do not find this information. but though I can not find this information I can find the choice D easily because d said that there is 2 kinds of F.

dose my prethought assumption brings me closer to the correct choice D?

if I do not prethink, my accuracy is lower. if I prethink my accuacy is much higher though the prethinking is not exact.

experts, pls explain why prethink help me.
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 06 Feb 2013, 00:29
gmatpill wrote:
paragkan wrote:
shikhar wrote:
Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed. Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.


Why can't the answer be B? The very fact that a meteorite also contained F implies that a similar meteorite could have collided with Earth and caused F to be inducted into Earth's crust artificially. So, studying this might not necessarily tell anything about Earth !!!



paragkan,

You are right that B does weaken too. But between B and D - D is a better answer because it "most seriously" undermines the argument.
B weakens a little bit because if F is found on a small meteorite from outer space, it's possible that the F in shungite is not "natural" and actually came from outer space instead. If that is the case, then we can't get a good idea of the Earth's crust at the time of formation - because that formation happened in outer space. Thus, the argument isn't valid anymore.
BUT, we don't know for SURE whether the F in shungite came from outer space so we can't necessarily say the argument is not valid. It's just that it *might* be invalid if the F is coming from outer space.


Hi,

Can you please let me know how you have eliminated C.

My reasoning was as the fullerness is formed directly from rock, unlike in lab so conditions might be different during formation.......
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 25 Mar 2013, 06:18
Hi,

Can you please let me know how you have eliminated C.

My reasoning was as the fullerness is formed directly from rock, unlike in lab so conditions might be different during formation.......[/quote]


C is wrong because it doesn't tell us anything about the conditions of the fullerine instead it focuses on the synthesis mineral in which it is found


I chose B simply because I was running out of time but D is a better answer.
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Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 10 May 2013, 07:21
Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?
A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions

Last edited by Zarrolou on 10 May 2013, 07:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 24 Jun 2013, 23:38
D is the straight answer.

Because

Fuller... is spherical shaped molecules made of carbon. If naturally discovered Fuller... is different from the artificial one, It is not the same substance that we are looking for in shungite

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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2013, 00:17
Although D looks close yet it is not definitive as it doesnt say the natural fullerene "the stucture of which is now known" is different or same as the lab fulleren.

Any help on this ??
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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Although D looks close yet it is not definitive as it doesnt say the natural fullerene "the stucture of which is now known" is different or same as the lab fulleren.

Any help on this ??


Hi adg142000

I’m glad to help.

This question uses a very common flaw of reasoning:
Fact: X leads to A
Fact: Y leads to A
Conclusion: X = Y.
This is wrong. Same ending does not mean same beginning.

Back to the question.

Fact: fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory
Fact: fullerenes also have been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite.
Fact: laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure
Conclusion: We could know about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed.

Assumption: the previous structure of fullereness formed in lab and that of fullererness formed in nature is the same.

What if scientists synthesize fullerness from substance X. But in nature fullerness was actually formed from substance Y ==> We cannot say the condition of the Earth’s crust at the time fullerness naturally formed is the same as the condition of lab at the time fullerness synthesized artificially.

What D says:

D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
D clearly says: we don't know what previous structure of fullererness formed naturally.
For example: The flow is: carbon 12 ==> carbon 14 ==> fullererness. Assume the lab synthesizes fullererness from carbon 12, but in nature, fullererness was formed from carbon 14 ==> cannot say the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed is the same as the condition in lab.

Hence, D weakens the conclusion and is correct.

Hope it helps.
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jul 2013, 00:31
pqhai wrote:
adg142000 wrote:
Although D looks close yet it is not definitive as it doesnt say the natural fullerene "the stucture of which is now known" is different or same as the lab fulleren.

Any help on this ??


Hi adg142000

I’m glad to help.

This question uses a very common flaw of reasoning:
Fact: X leads to A
Fact: Y leads to A
Conclusion: X = Y.
This is wrong. Same ending does not mean same beginning.

Back to the question.

Fact: fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory
Fact: fullerenes also have been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite.
Fact: laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure
Conclusion: We could know about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed.

Assumption: the previous structure of fullereness formed in lab and that of fullererness formed in nature is the same.

What if scientists synthesize fullerness from substance X. But in nature fullerness was actually formed from substance Y ==> We cannot say the condition of the Earth’s crust at the time fullerness naturally formed is the same as the condition of lab at the time fullerness synthesized artificially.

What D says:

D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
D clearly says: we don't know what previous structure of fullererness formed naturally.
For example: The flow is: carbon 12 ==> carbon 14 ==> fullererness. Assume the lab synthesizes fullererness from carbon 12, but in nature, fullererness was formed from carbon 14 ==> cannot say the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed is the same as the condition in lab.

Hence, D weakens the conclusion and is correct.

Hope it helps.


IT does not clarify anything?

Though I would believe and request others feeling so to affirm my choice and confirm that this is an unlikely question (aka Kaplan 800 and most choices and question facts are all indeendent facts than any assumtion, main uestion or in fact conclusion linking it to experiment for ABCXYZ

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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jul 2013, 01:49
gchawla123 wrote:
Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?
A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions


Premise: Laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure
conclusion: Naturally occurring fullerenes should help test the state of the earth's crust at the time these fullerenes were formed because of the distinctive conditions required at that time

Assumption: Naturally occurring fullerenes are similar to those synthesized in the lab.

However if as D says if the naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a structure that was not known when the author made the argument then what is hypothesized about natural fullerenes could not be correct. So the argument is undermined by D.
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jul 2013, 02:17
Actually I think "previously unknown crystalline structure" means , a structure that was not known at the time the author made the argument. The knowledge about the structure at present exists. I have edited my previous post.
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jul 2013, 01:32
shikhar wrote:
Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed. Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.



A tough to read variant of the "weaken" spectrum, the question is best tackled to gain competitive advantage though it will never be used to bump you to a difficult track by the CAT also there will be a lesser negative if possible of attempting such a question. However, to read thru carefully, one must note that their synthesis and discovery in nature were distinct events. However we do know from the lab findings (second premise) that there is a Temperature and pressure equilibrium to get the fullernes made, which is what the conclusion is referring to as a test case matching thse can be tried to evaluate earth's unknown history in making the crust

Given that

A. is "neither here nor there" but does make the experiment tough to engineer
B. I would say "neither here nor there" to be consistent
C. extra information "made you look"
D. that makes them incomparable in the two cases of the lab and in nature D is by fa more promising but read all the options and recheck
E. could apply but right now not fitting into my choices

D is correct.

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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2013, 03:11
Is A really out of scope? for me it was between A and E but in option A it took careful experimentation but it was still possible but in option E it ruled out that case.
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 31 Mar 2014, 02:28
B) This one is close. It seems to offer an alternate explanation for the formation of fullerene. But what should be considered
is, even if fullerene is formed in outer space does that change anything(temperature and pressure,for instance) if it is also
formed in earth? No, it does not.
C)This one provides more evidence to the argument and thus is strengthening the argument.
D)CORRECT. This choice undermines the argument by attacking the premise by suggesting that naturally occurring
fullerene and synthetic fullerene differ in their structure. Since the objects of comparison are not similar, the comparison
between the conditions these were formed does not stand.
If we're actually talking about two completely different kinds of fullerenes, then any information about the conditions
precipitating the growth of one kind can't be taken to apply to the growth of the other kind.

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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2014, 23:45
B just”some”,not enough to attack
C amounts no necessary with the formed process
D structure of naturally one ≠ laboratory one, bingo!

If they don’t share the same structure, then what happen to form a syntheis fullerenes has nothing to do with natural ones!

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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of   [#permalink] 08 Jul 2014, 23:45

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