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Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break

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Re: Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 15 Aug 2017, 18:10
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AbhinavBankhwal wrote:
b]mikemcgarry[/b]

Hi Mike,

I have stumbled upon this question couple of times now, and every time I have marked the wrong answer.

Could you please provide an elaborate explanation as to how 'had receded' and has receded' make a difference. I not being able to resolve the tense properly.

Maybe this is because I an being able to clearly comprehend the meaning of the phrase 'Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break apart'

Two questions -
1) Did the fear persist last year and it receded last year itself? In this case 'had receded'
2) Did the fear persist last year but it recede now? In this case 'has receded'

Hope I am thinking in the right direction. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Dear AbhinavBankhwal,

I'm happy to respond. :-) This is a fantastic question, as many Veritas questions are.

Here's a relevant blog article:
GMAT Verb Tenses: The Perfect Tenses

I suspect you don't understand how the perfect tenses work.

The past perfect, "had receded," has a relatively limited use. It is only used when we want to show that one past action came before another past action. That is the only use of the past perfect. After the comma, everything is in the present & future, so the past perfect is 100% incorrect.

The present perfect is tricky. It is certainly used when an action began in the past and is still going on in the present.
The Earth has been revolving around the Sun for more than 4/5 billion years.
The present perfect is also used when the action is in the past, but somehow the effects or influence of the action are still at work in the present. It provides a contrast to the simple past, which implies no continuing effect.
a) I read Moby Dick.
b) I have read Moby Dick.
Both are 100% grammatically correct. They have different implications. Version (a) has the implication of "Been there, done that!" Version (a) implies that the entire experience of this novel is in the past for me and that I have moved on. By contrast, version (b), which is what I actually would say, implies that the book somehow has an ongoing affect in my life, even though the action of reading it was in the past.

In this sentence, the fear "has receded"--the action of receding is in the past, but somehow, it's not forgotten. The threat of economic trouble has morphed from one form to another.

My friend, you need to learn much more about the prefect tenses. I am going to recommend Magoosh. We have a large library of SC lesson videos covering all the grammar you need to know. Here's a sample SC question:
The publication of Joyce's Ulysses
When you submit your answer, you will see a full explanation video and related lessons. The immediate feedback on individual question combined with the extensive lesson library will give you the SC background you need.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 16 Aug 2017, 21:27
As per the rule like can follow a noun phrase,adjective phrase or a pronoun, but in the context like is followed by two DC markers that and which both essential and nonessential modifier with the has.. clause.hence its a very bad pattern for gmat to follow in E.

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Re: Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 17 Aug 2017, 06:53
mikemcgarry wrote:
AbhinavBankhwal wrote:
b]mikemcgarry[/b]

Hi Mike,

I have stumbled upon this question couple of times now, and every time I have marked the wrong answer.

Could you please provide an elaborate explanation as to how 'had receded' and has receded' make a difference. I not being able to resolve the tense properly.

Maybe this is because I an being able to clearly comprehend the meaning of the phrase 'Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break apart'

Two questions -
1) Did the fear persist last year and it receded last year itself? In this case 'had receded'
2) Did the fear persist last year but it recede now? In this case 'has receded'

Hope I am thinking in the right direction. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Dear AbhinavBankhwal,

I'm happy to respond. :-) This is a fantastic question, as many Veritas questions are.

Here's a relevant blog article:
GMAT Verb Tenses: The Perfect Tenses

I suspect you don't understand how the perfect tenses work.

The past perfect, "had receded," has a relatively limited use. It is only used when we want to show that one past action came before another past action. That is the only use of the past perfect. After the comma, everything is in the present & future, so the past perfect is 100% incorrect.

The present perfect is tricky. It is certainly used when an action began in the past and is still going on in the present.
The Earth has been revolving around the Sun for more than 4/5 billion years.
The present perfect is also used when the action is in the past, but somehow the effects or influence of the action are still at work in the present. It provides a contrast to the simple past, which implies no continuing effect.
a) I read Moby Dick.
b) I have read Moby Dick.
Both are 100% grammatically correct. They have different implications. Version (a) has the implication of "Been there, done that!" Version (a) implies that the entire experience of this novel is in the past for me and that I have moved on. By contrast, version (b), which is what I actually would say, implies that the book somehow has an ongoing affect in my life, even though the action of reading it was in the past.

In this sentence, the fear "has receded"--the action of receding is in the past, but somehow, it's not forgotten. The threat of economic trouble has morphed from one form to another.

My friend, you need to learn much more about the prefect tenses. I am going to recommend Magoosh. We have a large library of SC lesson videos covering all the grammar you need to know. Here's a sample SC question:
The publication of Joyce's Ulysses
When you submit your answer, you will see a full explanation video and related lessons. The immediate feedback on individual question combined with the extensive lesson library will give you the SC background you need.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)



Thanks a lot Mike, for your valued response. It did help. :-)

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Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 22 Aug 2017, 16:26
Quote:
'Like' when used for comparison can be followed by a noun, or a pronoun or a noun+ noun modifier. It does not matter even if a relative clause that has a verb follows and modifies the noun as the clause is after all a modifier in the context





I think the issue is "like" can be used as a conjunction which I didn't know until 10 seconds ago. Therefore like does make it unclear if you think it's being used as a conjunction here. As an adjectival clause the sentence does work. I don't think D is wrong but E may be a little clearer

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Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 12 Sep 2017, 00:20
Hello mikemcgarry, GMATNinja, and other experts

I searched a lot about that+which used together and this is what I have understood. Please let me know if this makes sense.

Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break apart had receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation of the kind that has plagued Argentina for the past two decades.


Correct option: has receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, like that which has plagued Argentina for the past two decades

1) Although shows a contrast................and is a dependent clause. (Dependent clause,Independent clause)
Although+noun (fear)...............comma noun (that must be parallel to fear).
2) Subject verb pairs:
a) fear......................has receded
b) that (modifies last year)...................might break
c) risk....................could be
d) that (stagnation) ............has plagued

"that which has plagued....." is a dependent clause.

Can we also say: like the one that has plagued..........

examples:
The Northern states were hit by an ice age, like the one that hit the states centuries ago.
The Northern states were hit by an ice age, like that which hit the states centuries ago.


What are some ways to use "that which " construction?
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Re: Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 13 Sep 2017, 13:35
Shiv2016 wrote:
Hello mikemcgarry, GMATNinja, and other experts

I searched a lot about that+which used together and this is what I have understood. Please let me know if this makes sense.

Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break apart had receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation of the kind that has plagued Argentina for the past two decades.


Correct option: has receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, like that which has plagued Argentina for the past two decades

1) Although shows a contrast................and is a dependent clause. (Dependent clause,Independent clause)
Although+noun (fear)...............comma noun (that must be parallel to fear).
2) Subject verb pairs:
a) fear......................has receded
b) that (modifies last year)...................might break
c) risk....................could be
d) that (stagnation) ............has plagued

"that which has plagued....." is a dependent clause.

Can we also say: like the one that has plagued..........

examples:
The Northern states were hit by an ice age, like the one that hit the states centuries ago.
The Northern states were hit by an ice age, like that which hit the states centuries ago.

What are some ways to use "that which " construction?

Dear Shiv2016,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

I will remind you, my friend, that it is impossible to arrive at SC mastery simply by learning rules. There inevitably will be parts of the language you don't understand purely through a rule-based approach. My short answer to your question is: you need to read. You need to develop a habit of reading, an hour a day, above and beyond any GMAT-specific preparations you are doing. You need to push yourself to read high-level sophisticated material, so that you develop intuition for such structures. It's through this intuition, in addition to knowing the rules, that mastery will come.

The word "that" has several different roles. See:
GMAT Sentence Correction: The Many Uses of ‘That’

In this structure, we are using "that" as a demonstrative pronoun. The pronoun "that" is often used in comparisons in this way:
Canada has a modest and small capital, like that of Australia.
The first symphony of Johannes Brahms was an unqualified success throughout Europe, unlike that of any other composer.


Because the pronoun "that" refers to an element that is similar to, but not identical to, something the first part of the sentence, the word needs clarifying modification. In the two sentences above, a prepositional phrase was enough, but sometimes, we need a full clause to clarify the identify of the target of the pronoun. In this case, we use the "that which" structure.
1) Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break apart has receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, like that which has plagued Argentina for the past two decades.
2) Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break apart has receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, of the kind that has plagued Argentina for the past two decades.
3) Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break apart has receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, like the one that has plagued Argentina for the past two decades.
Here, #1 is perfectly correct, elegant, and exactly as a well-spoken person would phrase it. Versions #2 and #3 are casual and inferior: one would hear these embarrassing forms in colloquial American conversation, especially among people who are not well-spoken, but these are far too informal and casual ever to appear on the GMAT.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 01 Oct 2017, 03:32
Is usage of which correct here.

Which is always preceded by comma.
Exception (in which or similar phrase)

Why C is incorrect?

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Re: Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 01 Oct 2017, 05:18
Hi Mike,

I still did not understand why #3 in your example is incorrect.

'That which' used in comparison context is always correct?

Please confirm.

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Re: Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break [#permalink]

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New post 03 Oct 2017, 10:23
abrakadabra21 wrote:
Is usage of which correct here.

Which is always preceded by comma.
Exception (in which or similar phrase)

Why C is incorrect?

Dear abrakadabra21,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

Here's choice (C):
(C) receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, just as it has plagued Argentina for the past two decades
I can understand why a non-native speaker would be tempted by this wrong answer. It is terribly awkward to a native ear. The big problem is the awkward inclusion of the grossly unnecessary pronoun "it." Without that pronoun, and without the word "just," choice (C) would be elegant:
(C') receded, the risk now could be prolonged stagnation, as has plagued Argentina for the past two decades
That's incredibly sophisticated, and it's precisely the sort of structure that folks still learning English would be inclined to dismiss as wrong.

My friend, remember that the best way to become familiar with the "feel" of the English language is to develop a consistent habit of reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
Chef wrote:
Hi Mike,

I still did not understand why #3 in your example is incorrect.

'That which' used in comparison context is always correct?

Please confirm.

Dear Chef

My friend, do you realize that I have several posts on this quite long thread? Do you understand how ambiguous your question is? You are asking about #3 in my example where? Which of multiple posts?

My friend, the reason I am pointing this out is because how you do anything is how you do everything. If you aspire for GMAT excellence, you have to bring the mindset of excellence to every single thing you do. An action done with imprecision or inattention is a lost opportunity to build the highly focused skills you will need on test day. A high level of attention is not simply something you can manifest magically on test day without any preparation--you have to hone the quality of your precise attention in every single thing you do, build it like a muscle, so it is ready for the challenge of the test.

If you want to ask about an example, give the exact date of the post, and copy the section about which you are asking--it might be easiest to quote the section about which you are inquiring. Also, make sure you are asking the highest quality question you can. How you do anything is how you do everything.

Does this make sense, my friend?
Mike :-)
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Re: Although the fear last year that the trade zone might break   [#permalink] 03 Oct 2017, 10:23

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