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Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union

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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Apr 2016, 07:42
mitulsarwal wrote:
There is no strict rule that such a modifier always modifies the subject of the previous clause. On GMAT such modifiers mostly modify the subject of the previous clause(or entire clause when expressing result)but that can't be a rule.

The correct usage is as follows:
An end modifier introduced by a present participle and separated by commas mostly modifies
(i) the subject of previous clause
(ii)the whole clause, if it is expressing result
(iii) may refer back to an in between noun in the previous clause. Such a construction is considered correct.

To select the correct antecedent you need to consider the meaning. If you find a logically connected noun referent, that's all correct.

Example: I watched the sun rise over the ridge, blazing over houses, farms, and fields.
Here "blazing over houses, farms, and fields" is not modifying "I" but "Sun" and this is perfectly alright.



>> Pls award KUDOS if it really helped.

I am trying to rub my head around this!! why do I feel like everything is wrong about what's written here? :P :P :lol:
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Apr 2016, 08:56
Icecream87 wrote:
mitulsarwal wrote:
There is no strict rule that such a modifier always modifies the subject of the previous clause. On GMAT such modifiers mostly modify the subject of the previous clause(or entire clause when expressing result)but that can't be a rule.

The correct usage is as follows:
An end modifier introduced by a present participle and separated by commas mostly modifies
(i) the subject of previous clause
(ii)the whole clause, if it is expressing result
(iii) may refer back to an in between noun in the previous clause. Such a construction is considered correct.

To select the correct antecedent you need to consider the meaning. If you find a logically connected noun referent, that's all correct.

Example: I watched the sun rise over the ridge, blazing over houses, farms, and fields.
Here "blazing over houses, farms, and fields" is not modifying "I" but "Sun" and this is perfectly alright.



>> Pls award KUDOS if it really helped.

I am trying to rub my head around this!! why do I feel like everything is wrong about what's written here? :P :P :lol:


Not everything is wrong about that post; rather the post is mostly correct. I would say that the first 2 points [(i) the subject of previous clause , (ii)the whole clause, if it is expressing result ] are absolutely correctly stated, whereas I differ with the third point (that a present participle modifier "may refer back to an in between noun in the previous clause.")

The example sited is probably wrong. The modifier "blazing over houses, farms, and fields" refers to "I", NOT "sun", and therefore wrong meaning is conveyed.
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Apr 2016, 02:21
Hi sayantanc2k,

Thanks for answering, I just felt like there were several inconsistencies with what I read. Please correct me if I am wrong, this is how I see things:

(i) the subject of previous clause
- a comma + ING modifier can modify the subject of the clause ONLY when placed before the clause
EXAMPLE Modifying subject: wearing high heels, I talked to my friend (my heels had nothing to do with my talking to my friend). Therefore high heels only modify ‘me’

- when place before the clause it can also modify the entire clause (by bringing additional info)

EXAMPLE Modifying the entire clause: Using my phone, I talked to my friend (How did I talk to my friend? By using the phone. This modifies the entire clause)

(ii) the whole clause, if it is expressing result

- when placed after the clause, it always modifies the entire clause, but the ING modifier can now have TWO functions: bringing additional info or bringing the result)
EXAMPLE Modifying the entire clause bringing additional info: I talked to my friend, using my phone. (How did I talk to my friend? By using the phone.)
EXAMPLE Modifying the entire clause bringing result: I played with my phone, finishing the battery. (the result of playing with my phone was that I finished my battery)

(iii) may refer back to an in between noun in the previous clause. Such a construction is considered correct.

This is the role of a noun + noun modifier: the only time that an ING modifier holds the same role as a noun + noun modifier is when the ING modifier modifies the entire clause by bringing additional information and when the noun + noun modifier also modifies the entire clause.

EXAMPLE ING modifier and Noun + noun modifier playing the same role :
using ING modifier: Scientists detected high levels of radiation at crash sites around the world, suggesting that …
Noun + noun modifier: Scientists detected high levels of radiation at crash sites around the world, results that suggest that …
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Apr 2016, 04:47
Icecream87 wrote:
Hi sayantanc2k,

Thanks for answering, I just felt like there were several inconsistencies with what I read. Please correct me if I am wrong, this is how I see things:

(i) the subject of previous clause
- a comma + ING modifier can modify the subject of the clause ONLY when placed before the clause
EXAMPLE Modifying subject: wearing high heels, I talked to my friend (my heels had nothing to do with my talking to my friend). Therefore high heels only modify ‘me’

- when place before the clause it can also modify the entire clause (by bringing additional info)

EXAMPLE Modifying the entire clause: Using my phone, I talked to my friend (How did I talk to my friend? By using the phone. This modifies the entire clause)

(ii) the whole clause, if it is expressing result

- when placed after the clause, it always modifies the entire clause, but the ING modifier can now have TWO functions: bringing additional info or bringing the result)
EXAMPLE Modifying the entire clause bringing additional info: I talked to my friend, using my phone. (How did I talk to my friend? By using the phone.)
EXAMPLE Modifying the entire clause bringing result: I played with my phone, finishing the battery. (the result of playing with my phone was that I finished my battery)

(iii) may refer back to an in between noun in the previous clause. Such a construction is considered correct.

This is the role of a noun + noun modifier: the only time that an ING modifier holds the same role as a noun + noun modifier is when the ING modifier modifies the entire clause by bringing additional information and when the noun + noun modifier also modifies the entire clause.

EXAMPLE ING modifier and Noun + noun modifier playing the same role :
using ING modifier: Scientists detected high levels of radiation at crash sites around the world, suggesting that …
Noun + noun modifier: Scientists detected high levels of radiation at crash sites around the world, results that suggest that …


(i) and (ii) When placed after the clause, the -ing modifier could be invalid in absence of a suitable subject. Following is an example (from Manhattan SC guide):

Correct: I lifted the weight, WHISTLING "Beat It."
Wrong: The weight was lifted, WHISTLING "Beat It."

In the first sentence, the -ing modifier may be considered either a (pro)noun-modifier ( modifying I .. who lifted?), or a verb-modifier (modifying lifted... how lifted?). It may be more meaningful to consider it a (pro)noun modifier, since in the second sentence, in absence of the (pro)noun, the modifier becomes invalid. (i.e. cannot be used just a verb modifier).

(iii) I could not clearly understand which "in between" noun in the previous clause the modifier ("suggesting....") is referring to; what I understood is that the -ing modifier modifies the whole clause.
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jun 2017, 21:04
Quote:
Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union members to be enrolled in lower-end insurance plans imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend less time with each.

(A) imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend
(B) imposing stricter limits on medical services , requiring doctors to see more patients, and spending
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend
(D) that impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients, spending
(E) that impose stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients and spending


Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union members to be enrolled in lower-end insurance plans that [impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients], spending less time with each.

GMATNinja It is a tricky and super tough question. What is VERBing "spending" intended to modify in this sentence? Does the VERBing modifier modify the preceding clause in blue bracket []?
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jun 2017, 22:25
hazelnut wrote:
Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union members to be enrolled in lower-end insurance plans that [impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients], and spending less time with each.

What is VERBing "spending" intended to modify in this sentence? Does the VERBing modifier modify the preceding clause in blue bracket []?

Hi hazelnut, there should not be any and before spending.

The clause immediately before this participial phrase is:

lower-end insurance plans require doctors to see more patients

The reason this sentence is slightly tricky is that the participial phrase does not directly modify the subject of this clause: lower-end insurance plans.

However, the participial phrase does modify the doer (doctors) of the preceding action (to see).
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jul 2018, 06:22
EducationAisle wrote:
hazelnut wrote:
Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union members to be enrolled in lower-end insurance plans that [impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients], and spending less time with each.

What is VERBing "spending" intended to modify in this sentence? Does the VERBing modifier modify the preceding clause in blue bracket []?

Hi hazelnut, there should not be any and before spending.

The clause immediately before this participial phrase is:

lower-end insurance plans require doctors to see more patients

The reason this sentence is slightly tricky is that the participial phrase does not directly modify the subject of this clause: lower-end insurance plans.

However, the participial phrase does modify the doer (doctors) of the preceding action (to see).


Hi EducationAisle

Does it mean that comma + ing can modify not only the subject but also an object of the clause (if the object also does some action?).

E.g.1 Mary asked me to go out, taking our dog for a walk - but it seems ambigious.
E.g 2 Mary recommended that I ask Mike to go out, taking our dog for a walk - better? is that because of "that"?

Is there any rule/recommendation what -ing is to modify after sequence of several subjects and objects that all do some actions?
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2018, 08:59
Hero8888 wrote:
Hi EducationAisle

Does it mean that comma + ing can modify not only the subject but also an object of the clause (if the object also does some action?).

Hi Hero8888, you ask a good question. Rather than looking at Doctors as the object of the preceding clause (thereby creating a whole new rule, which would be both redundant and confusing), I would have a consistent rule as:

These type of Present Participial phrases modify the doer of the preceding action.

In most cases, the doer of the preceding action is the subject of the preceding clause, except in the sentence under consideration (incidentally, I have not come across any other such official question).

Quote:
E.g.1 Mary asked me to go out, taking our dog for a walk - but it seems ambigious.

Wonder why you think it is ambiguous. Even the context seems to make it quite clear that I should be taking our dog for a walk.
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2018, 09:00
Hero8888 wrote:
Hi EducationAisle

Does it mean that comma + ing can modify not only the subject but also an object of the clause (if the object also does some action?).

Hi Hero8888, you ask a good question. Rather than looking at Doctors as the object of the preceding clause (thereby creating a whole new rule, which would be both redundant and confusing), I would have a consistent rule as:

These type of Present Participial phrases modify the doer of the preceding action.

In most cases, the doer of the preceding action is the subject of the preceding clause, except in the sentence under consideration (incidentally, I have not come across any other such official question).

Quote:
E.g.1 Mary asked me to go out, taking our dog for a walk - but it seems ambigious.

Wonder why you think it is ambiguous. Even the context seems to make it quite clear that I should be taking our dog for a walk.
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jul 2018, 06:58
EducationAisle wrote:
Hero8888 wrote:
Hi EducationAisle

Does it mean that comma + ing can modify not only the subject but also an object of the clause (if the object also does some action?).

Hi Hero8888, you ask a good question. Rather than looking at Doctors as the object of the preceding clause (thereby creating a whole new rule, which would be both redundant and confusing), I would have a consistent rule as:

These type of Present Participial phrases modify the doer of the preceding action.

In most cases, the doer of the preceding action is the subject of the preceding clause, except in the sentence under consideration (incidentally, I have not come across any other such official question).

Quote:
E.g.1 Mary asked me to go out, taking our dog for a walk - but it seems ambigious.

Wonder why you think it is ambiguous. Even the context seems to make it quite clear that I should be taking our dog for a walk.

EducationAisle

Thanks a lot! So context plays a huge role. Can I assume that there will be a case when Present Participial phrase will modify slightly further action, jumping over the right preceding action, if the context allows?

E.g. Mary asked me to go out, nervously knocking on the table.
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jul 2018, 07:56
1
Hero8888 wrote:
E.g. Mary asked me to go out, nervously knocking on the table.

This does not seem to be a great construct because nervously knock on the table doesn't seem to have any discernible correlation with asking me to go out.

I would rather articulate this sentence as:

Nervously knocking on the table, Mary asked me to go out.

Also, going forward, the discussion would be more useful if we can limit the discussion to official questions.
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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Oct 2018, 21:56
chetan2u wrote:
Hi,
here 'that impose' is better than 'imposing' as 'that' relates to the word immediately preceding it
therefore A and B are out....

now there are 3 activities


a)impose stricter limits on medical services
b) require doctors to see more patients, and
c)spend less time with each.
in these a and b are independent and c is dependent on b....

C makes all a ,b ,c independent...... E makes b and c dependent on a..
only D makes a and b independent and c dependent on b.. therefore D is the ans...
hope i have been of some help..


how do I know which actions should be parallel and which should not be parallel?

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Re: Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than non union &nbs [#permalink] 26 Oct 2018, 21:56

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