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# Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of

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Magoosh GMAT Instructor
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Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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23 Aug 2012, 15:33
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Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise as king again.
(A) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise
(B) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(C) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(D) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, to arise
(E) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: Rex quondam rexque futurus [#permalink]

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24 Aug 2012, 00:44
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mikemcgarry wrote:
Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise as king again.
(A) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise
(B) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(C) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(D) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, to arise
(E) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise

Mike,

I always love your questions you post and find them very helpful, but I do not find this one to be of a great difficulty is it really considered 700? I did it in about 25 secs, it has very easy splits.

First off we need the "That" because we are talking about the thought/ theory/ idea about "the mythical figure" and not the mythical figure itself.

Second, again we need the idea that king Arthur will arise and come back not that he actually will be arising and coming back.
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Re: Rex quondam rexque futurus [#permalink]

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27 Aug 2012, 08:47
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geno5 wrote:
Mike,
I always love your questions you post and find them very helpful, but I do not find this one to be of a great difficulty is it really considered 700? I did it in about 25 secs, it has very easy splits.

Thank you for your kind words. To be honest, I am more or less guessing in the dark when I estimate the difficulty of a question I have just written. It's always hard to gauge what will seem obvious and what folks will find tricky.

Mike
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Re: Rex quondam rexque futurus [#permalink]

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23 Aug 2012, 23:08
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Good question Mike! Here is my analysis somewhat:

Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise as king again.

(A) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise
this sentence is the least ambiguous and structurally kosher.

(B) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
the use of present participle "arising" is inappropriate here as it seems to modify the phrase "in some future time of need"

(C) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
this option is ambiguous, for in using the infinitive, we do not know in what time context Arthur was/is king. It also has the "arising" issue found in B.

(D) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, to arise
once again, the time context is ambiguous.

(E) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise[/quote]
same issue as above

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Re: Rex quondam rexque futurus [#permalink]

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23 Aug 2012, 23:12
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macjas wrote:
Good question Mike! Here is my analysis somewhat:

Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise as king again.

(A) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise
this sentence is the least ambiguous and structurally kosher.

(B) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
the use of present participle "arising" is inappropriate here as it seems to modify the phrase "in some future time of need"

(C) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
this option is ambiguous, for in using the infinitive, we do not know in what time context Arthur was/is king. It also has the "arising" issue found in B.

(D) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, to arise
once again, the time context is ambiguous.

(E) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise

same issue as above [/quote]

In "D" how come the time context is ambiguous. The sentence clearly says "at one time". What's wrong with D?
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Re: Rex quondam rexque futurus [#permalink]

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27 Aug 2012, 01:52
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Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure ofArthur was at one time king of all of England and,in some future time of need, will arise as king again.

Intent of the sent : Ancient legend holds 2 things ...............1. X was the king at one time................AND.................. 2. X will arise as king again in the future

Vertical scan reveals : A n somewhat D to fit the equation ( maintaining parallelism )

A : Legend holds THAT...........Arthur WAS the king.......................AND......................WILL ARISE as king again.

D : Legend holds Arthur TO BE at one time king .............AND............... TO ARISE as king again ( TO BE form..........timeless verbs doesn't reveal the timeframe when the action took place ) = So not a proper choice = Eliminated

Furthermore THAT in A = cements its choice over D.

Leading to A = my take

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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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20 Nov 2014, 11:13
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ammuseeru wrote:
mikemcgarry wrote:
Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise as king again.
(A) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise
(B) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(C) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(D) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, to arise
(E) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise

Mike,
Can you help in eliminating wrong options in your way.

Regards,
Ammu

Dear Ammu,

I know I wrote this question a few years ago, but I am really not particularly happy with it. If I had to give it a grade now, I'd give it a grade of a B- of C+. It's among the first GMAT SC questions I ever wrote, and most of the questions I have written are far superior to this. Basically, this question is way too easy.

The idiom for the verb "hold" is a "that"-clause.
I hold that X is Y. = correct
Idiomatically, "hold" does not take the infinitive.
I hold X to be Y. = idiomatically incorrect
Thus, (C) & (D) & (E) are incorrect.

We also need parallelism between the two verbs --- "was" and "will arise", not "was" and "arising." Thus, (B) is wrong, and (A) is the only option left.

Does this make sense?
Mike
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Re: Rex quondam rexque futurus [#permalink]

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23 Aug 2012, 23:25
dheerajv wrote:
In "D" how come the time context is ambiguous. The sentence clearly says "at one time". What's wrong with D?

Hi Dheeraj, to me somehow using the construct "to be" implies something universal. "xxx is" or "xxx was" puts things in the perspective of time. This is at least how I understand it. Experts please correct me if I am wrong

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Re: Rex quondam rexque futurus [#permalink]

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24 Aug 2012, 07:22
(A) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise ---- the first part of the sub-clause is a clause with a verb and the second one too is similar

(B) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising --- the two parts are not parallel. Arising renders the second part into a phrase; wrong

(C) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising ---- same as B; wrong

(D) The mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, to arise; to be denotes timelessness, or even contemporariness, which it is not. Past tense was is the appropriate in this case. same thing what macjas has pointed out

(E) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise--- the first part is a phrase and the second part is a clause; wrong
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Re: Rex quondam rexque futurus [#permalink]

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24 Aug 2012, 10:02
A is right..holds that and parallelsim are the keys
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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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11 Sep 2012, 00:22
Thanks for the question. I overlooked A and chose D, despite the ambiguity in time. I really was not sure on whether the usage of "holds that" is correct.
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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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15 Dec 2012, 02:31
TO BE is most often then not is an incorrect choice (please correct me if i am wrong) , therefore , C / D/E are out.

B is wrong due to the use to "ARISING"

Correct Ans : - A

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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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30 Aug 2013, 02:30
D should be

holds Athure to have been the king.

is that rith?

"hold sombody to do something" is correct as " hold that sombody do something"

is that right?
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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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30 Aug 2013, 09:15
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vietmoi999 wrote:
D should be
holds Athure to have been the king.
is that rith?
"hold sombody to do something" is correct as " hold that sombody do something"
is that right?

Dear vietmoi999,
The construction "to hold that P did X" is perfectly correct. The construction "to hold P to do X" or "to hold P to have done X" is highly suspect ---- use of the the verb "to hold" plus the infinitive is a highly debatable construction. Some grammar experts would say it's permissible, others would say it is strictly wrong. You definitely will not see this structure as part of a correct answer on the GMAT.
Does this make sense?
Mike
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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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24 Dec 2013, 04:20
B: Wrong; Tense of arise is wrong. it refers to the future there should be will arise.
C: wrong; Same reason as above
E: wrong: Needs a That in the sentence to work.
A: right answer; Has will arise at end of the phrase and that at the beginning of the phrase

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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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20 Nov 2014, 04:57
mikemcgarry wrote:
Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise as king again.
(A) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise
(B) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(C) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(D) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, to arise
(E) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise

Mike,
Can you help in eliminating wrong options in your way.

Regards,
Ammu

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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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21 Nov 2014, 02:11
mikemcgarry wrote:
ammuseeru wrote:
mikemcgarry wrote:
Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise as king again.
(A) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise
(B) that the mythical figure of Arthur was at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(C) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, arising
(D) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, to arise
(E) the mythical figure of Arthur to be at one time king of all of England and, in some future time of need, will arise

Mike,
Can you help in eliminating wrong options in your way.

Regards,
Ammu

Dear Ammu,

I know I wrote this question a few years ago, but I am really not particularly happy with it. If I had to give it a grade now, I'd give it a grade of a B- of C+. It's among the first GMAT SC questions I ever wrote, and most of the questions I have written are far superior to this. Basically, this question is way too easy.

The idiom for the verb "hold" is a "that"-clause.
I hold that X is Y. = correct
Idiomatically, "hold" does not take the infinitive.
I hold X to be Y. = idiomatically incorrect
Thus, (C) & (D) & (E) are incorrect.

We also need parallelism between the two verbs --- "was" and "will arise", not "was" and "arising." Thus, (B) is wrong, and (A) is the only option left.

Does this make sense?
Mike

Yeah, it makes sense. Thank you Mike.

Regards,
Ammu

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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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26 Jan 2017, 08:21
mikemcgarry wrote:
The idiom for the verb "hold" is a "that"-clause.
I hold that X is Y. = correct
Idiomatically, "hold" does not take the infinitive.
I hold X to be Y. = idiomatically incorrect
Thus, (C) & (D) & (E) are incorrect.

We also need parallelism between the two verbs --- "was" and "will arise", not "was" and "arising." Thus, (B) is wrong, and (A) is the only option left.

Does this make sense?
Mike

Dear Mike,

How come "hold to be" is idiomatically incorrect? I'm not a native speaker so I can't tell which one is correct but there are too many examples of "hold X to be Y" shown in Google to be ignored:

"I now hold her to be a very competent, complicated, strong, deep-thinking, quick-witted, quick-draw, wonderful creature."
"The citizens of Antwerp hold him to be the instigator and ringleader of this atrocious plot."
"This uses a particular meaning of 'hold': to "hold X to be Y" means "to believe or maintain that X is Y""

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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of [#permalink]

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27 Jan 2017, 14:06
mynguyen62 wrote:
mikemcgarry wrote:
The idiom for the verb "hold" is a "that"-clause.
I hold that X is Y. = correct
Idiomatically, "hold" does not take the infinitive.
I hold X to be Y. = idiomatically incorrect
Thus, (C) & (D) & (E) are incorrect.

We also need parallelism between the two verbs --- "was" and "will arise", not "was" and "arising." Thus, (B) is wrong, and (A) is the only option left.

Does this make sense?
Mike

Dear Mike,

How come "hold to be" is idiomatically incorrect? I'm not a native speaker so I can't tell which one is correct but there are too many examples of "hold X to be Y" shown in Google to be ignored:

"I now hold her to be a very competent, complicated, strong, deep-thinking, quick-witted, quick-draw, wonderful creature."
"The citizens of Antwerp hold him to be the instigator and ringleader of this atrocious plot."
"This uses a particular meaning of 'hold': to "hold X to be Y" means "to believe or maintain that X is Y""

Dear mynguyen62,

I'm happy to respond.

I have a few things to say. First of all, grammar & idioms is NOT mathematical. In math, there's a black/white distinction: something is either right or wrong. Period. What's right is right for everyone, and what's wrong is wrong for everyone.

Grammar does not work that way. Everything associated with grammar & language is on a spectrum. Let's artificially say that there's some kind of 0 to 10 scale. Zero would be something that absolutely no native speaker would say. Let's say that little-kid talk and low quality slang would be around 2-3. Let's say that ordinary speech is about 4-6, and the higher numbers represent increasing levels of formality. A 10 would be the most sophisticated writing possible in English, the way an exalted author might write. Let's say that the language on the GMAT SC is 8+, that is, very sophisticated, much more sophisticated than ordinary speech.

This is precisely why it is an exceptionally poor idea to do a Google search to determine if some idiom is correct on the GMAT. You see, Google reflects the overall trends of the population, and so many Americans are about at 4-5 on that scale. Everyone who takes the GMAT is educated, but so many Americans are poorly educated--but no lack of education, however appalling, keeps people off the internet! Many American magazines and popular newspapers use grammatical forms that I consider absolutely embarrassing! There's a well-marketed self-proclaimed grammar authority known by the handle "Grammar Girl" who extols values of about a 5-6 on that scale. All of this falls well short of what the GMAT expects.

Would you hear "hold to be" in ordinary American colloquial conversation? Of course. But OK in ordinary American speech is NOT OK on the GMAT SC. The GMAT holds a much higher standard. In fact, some of what the GMAT would consider correct is so sophisticated that it would sound wrong to ordinary uneducated American native speakers.

If you want to know what is right on the GMAT, you cannot rely on general guides. You absolutely must use material that is specific to the GMAT. Here's a free GMAT Idiom ebook. I would also recommend that MGMAT books.

As someone who has studied the GMAT for years, here's what I can tell you:
hold that= 100% correct, totally legitimate
hold to be = hmmm; not 100% wrong, probably correct in colloquial speech, but I don't believe this appears as part of the correct answer in any GMAT SC question.

Finally, I would say: the absolute best thing any non-native speaker can do to get a sense for the idioms is to cultivate a habit of reading:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Re: Ancient Celtic legend holds that the mythical figure of   [#permalink] 27 Jan 2017, 14:06

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