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As an actress, and more importantly as a teacher of acting

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As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including

(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include

(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included

(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including

(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

Please explain with POE
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New post 21 Apr 2013, 01:47
To eliminate option B, the phrase "one of the most influential artists"modfies trained several generations of actors who include

But the intended meaning of the sentence says stella trained several generation generations of actors... "one of the most influential artists" can be stella or anyone which creates ambiguity in meaning ..
Is my understanding correct to eliminate the option B
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New post 21 Apr 2013, 02:06
B is not wrong for the reason as suggested by u .this is perfectly fine in B : Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors

the reason why B is wrong is because of this construction :actors who include Marlon Brando and
Robert De Niro.


"actors" are Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro but "actors" cannot include Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro

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New post 21 Apr 2013, 02:17
hi Rakesh,
.As posted by you " trained several generations of actors who include it should be "including" here…who can't modify plural actors……"thats a nice catch with respect to who

I think we can't use including here becoz there will be an unecessary tense change if you use including.The main verb of the sentence is trained which is in past tense ..Hence past tense included should be used . option C does that.

Just my opinion mate.
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New post 21 Apr 2013, 02:21
Quote:
.As posted by you " trained several generations of actors who include it should be "including" here…who can't modify plural actors……"thats a nice catch with respect to who


unfortunately this is not correct .
"who" can modify plurals .
think of this sentence : people who are lazy will never succeed in life

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New post 21 Apr 2013, 02:23
neha24 wrote:
B is not wrong for the reason as suggested by u .this is perfectly fine in B : Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors

the reason why B is wrong is because of this construction :actors who include Marlon Brando and
Robert De Niro.


"actors" are Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro but "actors" cannot include Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro


Hi neha,
Sorry for troubling you neha.can you explain this little more
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New post 21 Apr 2013, 02:49
Quote:
in your sentence what example you have given there is a verb and in the original sentence there is not a verb so who just doesn't make sense here.


i was referring to this statement of urs :
Quote:
who can't modify plural actors……


including a verb or not including a verb is irrelevant on this issue .the fact is that "who" can very well modify plurals

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New post 21 Apr 2013, 03:20
Quote:
Hi neha,
Sorry for troubling you neha.can you explain this little more


can u plz be specific as to what part u referring?

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New post 21 Apr 2013, 08:08
I agree with Neha on this...THe problem here is 'several generations of actors who include'...
This is awkward...

Had it been...'several generations of actors such as'...it would have been perfect...

Example of prlural connection for who...
The driver took the people for a ride who had been waiting,.who refers to 'people' which is plural...similarly as the case here actors..
The director took actors for a ride who had been waiting.

Hope this clarifies.
Thanks neha for good concepts for eliminating options. :)

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New post 07 May 2013, 04:31
All duplicate threads on this topic have been merged.

Please read and follow the Guidelines for Posting in Verbal GMAT forum before posting anything.

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New post 26 Aug 2013, 18:57
kimmyg wrote:
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

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modifier question:

stella should be placed after comma, so d,e are out
a,b, c are left
actors whose rank so c out
a, b left
here : actors including vs actors who include : actors who include is vague so i go with A

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New post 18 Nov 2013, 20:08
Great question. It took me 4.5 mins to get the question right. C though its wordy is the only sentence which isn't error prone.

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New post 27 Nov 2013, 05:58
this question is similar to question 48 og13 . it is tricky. why

relative clause can modify a far noun. relative clause can jump over the modifier of the noun to modify that noun. this situation happen frequently in many oa in the questions in og books. however this pattern is not prefered and we have a situation which I call "sometime incorrect, other times correct".

choice A represents the pattern which is not prefered. in other questions, this pattern can be correct but in this problem this pattern is wrong because we have better choice, choice c.

that is why this question is so tricky.

another point is "whose ranks include" . this phrase is logic.
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New post 15 Dec 2013, 06:46
kimmyg wrote:
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

Official Guide 12 Question

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Question: 49
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in c, what is meaning relation between "training " and "was one". is it a causal relation. it it is so, comma+doing can show the cause of the main clause. is that right?

please, comment.
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New post 07 Jan 2014, 03:57
kimmyg wrote:
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

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I chose the wrong answer but now understand why C is correct:

present participles modify the WHOLE preceding clause, thus "training" doesn't modify "theater", it modifies the whole clause. As far as "whose ranks included", not only is the idiom correct, it also removes ambiguity related to "generations of". So that's why C is correct..

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kimmyg wrote:
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
(D) one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
(E) one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

kinjiGC wrote:
Hi Mike,
Can you explain the OG question
Thanks, Kinjal

Dear Kinjal,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

The first thing I'll say is --- after the long introductory phrase before the underlined part, it's very natural to expect the name right away. Choice (D) & (E) are awkward in that they delay the name even further. Stella Adler is the focus of the sentence, the star of this particular sentence, so we want to get to her. Just as it wouldn't make sense to have a 3 hour movie in which we meet the star of the movie only in the last 30 minutes, so it doesn't make sense for the subject & focus of a sentence to be unnecessarily buried further & further in the sentence. That's one problem with (D) & (E). We will reject both of those.

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
Trainwreck modifier mistake!! The phrase beginning with "who" is an ordinary noun modifier, modifying the subject, Stella Adler. Noun modifiers much touch the noun they modifier. This is incorrect.

(B) Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
Most of this is good, until the end. We get a weird shift in verb tense in the final verb --- everything in the sentence is past tense until we get to present test "include." Why is this last verb in the present tense? That simply doesn't make sense with the rest of the sentence. This is incorrect.

(C) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
Brilliant! I have to say, as someone who regularly writes GMAT SC practice questions, I am always impressed by the brilliance of the folks at GMAC. This one is 100% correct. Unlike the "who" modifier in (A), the "training" modifier is a little more flexible ---- it can be thought of as modifying the entire independent clause, so it doesn't need to "touch" anything. The truly brilliant part is --- the sentence creates the expectation that the underlined section would end:
... several generations of actors, including ...
That would have been perfectly correct. Of course, if we just replaced the active participle "including" with the passive participle "included", that would be entirely incorrect:
...several generations of actors, included ...
Instead, the folks at GMAC came up with this very clever alternative:
...several generations of actors whose ranks included...
This is different from what one might have expected, but it's 100% correct. Here, the word "included" is not a participle, but a full bonafide verb, the verb of the clause beginning with "whose ranks." Because this structure was unexpected and less familiar, I see that many folks on this page rejected choice (C). That's the sign of a very well written question, if the correct answer is something that many people thing sounds wrong.

OA = (C)

laxieqv wrote:
btw, I double-check :P ...Robert was born in 1943 ....Brando 1924 ....clearly they were from two different generations

I don't know whether laxieqv, who posted that comment 9 years ago, is still following this post, but just FYI, in the first Godfather movie, Marlon Brando plays the elderly father Vito Corleone, and in the following, Godfather II, Robert Di Nero (a generation younger than Brando), played the young Vito Corleone in the flashback portions. I highly recommend both of those movies as classics.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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New post 22 Feb 2014, 21:49
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.


WHEN WE SAY.....

----- STELLA WAS-----influential---, TRAINING SEVERAL........ The portion after comma describes the preceding clause as to how STELLA was influntial...it modifies not stella but the entire clause and makes perfect sense.....

As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro..... CORRECT

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New post 24 Feb 2014, 13:29
Hi mikemcgarry,

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
Trainwreck modifier mistake!! The phrase beginning with "who" is an ordinary noun modifier, modifying the subject, Stella Adler. Noun modifiers much touch the noun they modifier. This is incorrect.




Regarding the modifier 'who' in your explanation for choice 'A',I have some doubt.Please consider the below ex:
a box of nails,which is on the floor.In this case which refers to box and not nails.
So that means its not necessary to have 'which' adjacent to the noun its modifying.

another ex from OG:
Although she had been known as an effective legislator first in the Texas Senate and later in the United States House of Representatives, not until Barbara Jordan’s participation in the hearings on the impeachment of President Richard Nixon in 1974 was she made a nationally recognized figure, as it was televised nationwide.

correct answer includes
later in the United States House of Representatives, Barbara Jordan did not become a nationally recognized figure until 1974, when she participated in the hearings on the impeachment of President Richard Nixon, which were

Here 'which' refers to the hearings.
So based on the above examples cant I say it is similar to 'who' too.

'who' need not be placed immediately after the noun its describing.so here who can still modify stella. Isnt it right?

Please correct me if I am wrong

Thank you

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kona wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,

(A) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
Trainwreck modifier mistake!! The phrase beginning with "who" is an ordinary noun modifier, modifying the subject, Stella Adler. Noun modifiers much touch the noun they modifier. This is incorrect.


Regarding the modifier 'who' in your explanation for choice 'A',I have some doubt.Please consider the below ex:
a box of nails,which is on the floor.In this case which refers to box and not nails.
So that means its not necessary to have 'which' adjacent to the noun its modifying.

another ex from OG:
Although she had been known as an effective legislator first in the Texas Senate and later in the United States House of Representatives, not until Barbara Jordan’s participation in the hearings on the impeachment of President Richard Nixon in 1974 was she made a nationally recognized figure, as it was televised nationwide.

correct answer includes
later in the United States House of Representatives, Barbara Jordan did not become a nationally recognized figure until 1974, when she participated in the hearings on the impeachment of President Richard Nixon, which were

Here 'which' refers to the hearings.
So based on the above examples cant I say it is similar to 'who' too.

'who' need not be placed immediately after the noun its describing.so here who can still modify stella. Isnt it right?

Please correct me if I am wrong

Thank you

Dear Kona,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

Here, we are running into the distinction of vital vs. non-vital modifiers (a.k.a restrictive vs. non-restrictive, or mission-critical vs. non-mission-critical). See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... modifiers/
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/that-vs-which-on-the-gmat/

A vital noun modifier can come between a noun and an ordinary modifier. They constitute an important exception to the Modifier Touch Rule. A vital noun modifier is "vital" for establishing the identity of the noun. For example:
... a box of nails,which is on the floor.
In this sentence, "of nails" is a vital noun modifier, because without it, the "box" could be any generic box --- a shoe box, a match box, a tissue box, a refrigerator box, etc. We have no idea. We need "of nails" to tell us exactly what kind of box. Because "of nails" is a vital noun modifier, it can come between the noun "box" and the modifying clause starting with "which."

Similarly, in
.... when she participated in the hearings on the impeachment of President Richard Nixon, which were televised nationwide.
In this sentence, "hearings" by itself would tell us nothing --- Congress has hearing all the time. If we add "on the impeachment", then it's a little more specific, although a few different figures have been up on possible impeachment charges in history, so this alone is not enough to guarantee the exact identify of the hearings. If we add the whole modifier, "on the impeachment of President Richard Nixon" --- OK, now we know exactly which hearings we are discussing. That entire phrase is necessary to establish the identity of the noun. It's a vital noun modifier, which means it can enjoy the privilege of coming between the noun "hearing" and the clause starting with "which". This is a valid exception to the Modifier Touch Rule.

BUT
Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including ...
Look at what comes between the noun "Stellla Adler" and the "who" clause: a verb and everything that follows the verb (that's called the "predicate"). We absolutely are not allowed to put a full bonafide verb or verb + predicate between a noun and its modifier. That is a grossly incorrect violation of the Modifier Touch Rule. That's why this answer choice should be taken out back and shot.

The Modifier Touch Rule is an important rule. It's not absolute, but it is important. We can't just shove any words we like between an noun and its modifier. The only thing we can put in there is a vital noun modifier that is essential for establishing the identity of the noun. This is a crucial distinction to understand for the GMAT SC.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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New post 24 Feb 2014, 16:59
Thank you Mikemcgarry :)

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