Ask MBA Crystal Ball

Dear Experts,

I request you to kindly evaluate my profile for MILR from Cornell University. However, I have listed a few more programs for backup though I’m interested only in MILR, Cornell University.

Programs Interested in: Full-time MBA / MS or Specialized Masters in HR
1. Tier-1 Schools
• MILR, Cornell University
• MS-HCM, Columbia University - School of Professional Studies (From 2019 Part-time program is being upgraded to Full time program)
2. Tier-2 Schools
• MBA (HR specialisation), Wisconsin School of Business, Madison
• Master of HRLR, Michigan State University

Class start year preference: Classes starting in Sept 2019

My Profile:
 General Info:
1. Indian + Male
2. Engineer + PGDM (HR)

 Academics:
1. Bachelor in Engineering (ECE) from Tier - 2 Institute, 2009, 63.87% (Top 25 percentile of the class)
2. Post Graduate Diploma in Management (HR) from Tier - 2 B-School, 2013, 5.15/7.0 CGPA (Top 25 percentile of the class)

 Work experience: 7 years, India
1. Boutique Consulting: (2009-2011, 22 m): Associate - Business Research | Role: Sector Research & Research report development for Textiles Industry

2. Government Skills Development Council: 2013-2014, 17 m): Manager - Affiliations (Partners & Industry) | Role: Sales Operations: 80%, Skill Research: 20% | Achievements: Largest number of partner empanelment by any Skill Council in India in a fiscal year; Selected to anchor the Skill Gap study with KPMG & Sector Skill Council (SSC) Optimization Study with McKinsey & Co.

3. Big-4 Consulting (2014-2017, 32 m): Senior Consultant - Customer Consulting | Role: CRM process designing, System Testing, Customer Experience Design | Achievements: Received 1 client appreciation award & 1 firm award

4. Education & Skills Think-Tank (May 2017- Till Date): Manager - Research & Partnerships | Role: Research, Project Management & Knowledge Management; Additional responsibility of managing the entire Talent Acquisition lifecycle for Research Associate (RA) roles | Managing a team of 4 members

 Internships: (2012-2013, 11 m, During PGDM(HR)): 3 HR internships including an international summer internship in an MNC in Germany HQ.
1. Summer Associate - Global University Relations, with Europe’s largest Engineering Company
2. Intern - HR Strategy, Planning & Policy, with India’s largest multi-brand retail chain
3. Intern - Early Careers Resourcing, with India’s largest private Life Insurance Company

 Extra-curricular:

1. Leadership in student bodies:
a) Forum Representative, ECE Forum: During my B.E, I was ECE Forum Representative where I have conducted large student events, introduced new events such as Spell Bee (1st time in India), etc.
b) Alumni Secretary, B-School (2011-2013): I have managed a team of 50 volunteers to implement the largest alumni outreach program culminating in largest turnout at the Alumni meet in our B-Schools history.
c) Convenor, HR Club, B-School (2012-2013): I also started a HR Club in my B-School wherein we have called Industry professionals for guest lectures, conducting knowledge circles, etc.

2. Research articles/papers published: More than 10 articles in HRM published in B-School
magazines/journals

3. Competitions:
a) Winner of best summer project in HR in multiple forums such as Institute of Management Consultants of India (IMCI), Indian Society for Training & Development (ISTD), etc.
b) Selected as the top-15 Management Student in India by Dewang Mehta Foundation after a multi-level National competitive process
c) I also competitively got selected for Harvard Project for Asian & International Relations (HPAIR), Boston from among 600 students globally
d) Winner of other competitions such as Mahindra SSG - Breakfast with the CEO Series, Infosys Aspirations 2020, etc.

 Test Scores:
1. GMAT: 700 (Q49, V35) IR3 | Actual Test date: Apr 2018; Plan to take another attempt soon
2. IELTS: 8.0/9.0 with all sections above 7.5 but score expiring in May 2018; Have to re-take or request for waiver

 Post-Masters/MBA Goal:
I did my 1st Masters(PDGM) quite early in my profession journey having less than 2 years of experience. Hence could not take an informed decision & leverage on the academic & career opportunities which was available in HRM in better known programs in India. I wish to embrace this opportunity to acquire, apply & assimilate knowledge of HRM & IR through this 2nd Masters/MBA and fulfil my career aspirations & passion to work as HR Business Partner/ HR leadership role in an MNCs.

My Questions for the Experts:

Q1. Now, I'm keen to transition into HR Business Partner roles in MNCs in US and hence, I wish to pursue MILR, Cornell to achieve my goal. However, I already have my 1st Masters in HR (PGDM-HR) from India & no work experience in HR but in Consulting, Business Research & Sales operations (Except 11 months HR internship experience).
[Note: The acceptance rate for the MILR program is typically between 35% and 40%.]

Do I even have a chance considering my profile and test scores described in the previous paragraphs?

Q2. For MILR, Cornell most of the students take the GRE. While the mean GMAT score for Cornell MILR is 680 (Q47, V36) & I have 700 (Q49, V35).
• But my verbal score is 1 point below the Verbal mean score.
• Additionally, I have only IR3.
• Besides we have to account for the fact that I’m Indian + Male + Engineer being from an overrepresented demographic segment

Will I have to retake the GMAT or my present score is competitive enough?

Thanking in advance

Dinesh-bhai,

With your kind of a profile, you should definitely explore international options as well, in addition to ISB which you already have on your list.

Your acads appear pretty solid. If you can combine that with the GMAT score that you are expecting, you'll put to rest any concerns Adcom might have about your intellectual capabilities.

With your experience of 6 years, you'd be able to talk about project management skills, team leading, international exposure etc etc that your competition will be highlighting.

The awards and the recognition under your belt can be used as an icing on the cake. By itself this will not give you an advantage in your application. You'd need to pull out something more from your hat.

Fortunately, there's one trump card you have that you could use to make your profile stand out in the pile. Unlike regular IT (which forms the broader pool that you fall in), you could use the embedded systems focus to make yourself unique.

As opposed to the mainstream IT applications domain (custom built or off-the-shelf) the challenges involved in your field can be substantially different. There are many ways in which you could leverage this advantage in your essays and bring out elements that the other IT guys can't talk about. More on that later, when we get into the specifics after getting your GMAT score.

When do you get your final GMAT score? A few points below or above what you are expecting will not dramatically alter what we've just discussed. Come back when you have a confirmed score and we can take the discussion forward in terms of schools that you can target and more about your application strategy.

Chak de phatte, buddy!

Hi Sameer,

Thanks for starting this wonderful thread ! Please evaluate my profile as well !

Details:

Male /29 Years/ India

Educational Background:
I was average in my school days with 77 % and 74% marks in 10th and 12th respectively.
I completed my engineering in Computer Science in the year 2003 with an overall of 74 %. I have also completed the 6months Young Professional Program ( Executive Education) from IIM Calcutta in the year 2005.

Even though I am a computer science graduate, I joined my family business in the year 2003. I have a total work experience of 7 years in my family business as a director. We are a FMCG company in Central India with a turn over of 70 crores and specialize in Flour Milling Operations. We presently operate two flour processing units with a total processing capacity of 30000 Quintals per day. We also run two bread manufacturing units under the franchise of Hindustan Unilever Limited. We produce and retail over 50000 breads and bakery products per day.

Extra Curricular:
I have represented my college and school in Cricket .
I am an expert at playing the keyboard.

GMAT : 710 ( Quant 50. Verbal 37)

I would like to hear your views upon the fruitfulness of an MBA for a profile like me.
Its easy for people to calculate their ROIs if they are from a service background. But for people like me, who arent very likely to sit for campus interviews because we are surely going to jump back into our businesses, calculation of ROI becomes a little tricky.

I want to do an MBA because I want to explore greater growth avenues, possible in my business or out of my current field of business . I wish to attend the college to widen my knowledge horizon which has a very limited window in my present business.

How fruitful can such courses be, for a Small/Medium Enterprise entrepreneur like me ?

Thanks and Regards,

Manish

Varun sir,

Sab kushal mangal, I hope.

If you are targeting programs starting in 2011, the countdown has already begun. Considering that you are still at a very early point in the thinking process, you've got a lot of catching up to do. I'm working with people who started on their essays almost 2 months back. Many of them have been hit hard by last year's woes - recession, uncertain economy, extremely competitive application process.

Don't assume you have a lot of time on hand. It would've been good to get done with the GMAT early on, so you could've started thinking about a whole lot of other questions that follow. Roll up your sleeves my friend and get cracking.

Will move on to your profile now:

Though are also an IT/Indian/Male, you have a slight advantage over the others from the same pool because of your Hardware and Marketing combo background.

Also, why restrict yourself to one country? When you are targeting a global degree, why not consider global schools? The process and requirements for most top schools are similar and you can always take the incremental effort required to apply to these schools.

• Looking at my profile, how much I need to get in GMAT to secure a call from ISB and Great Lakes

Considering the lower age & experience, I'd say a 730+ would be good. Combined with your BE performance, a strong GMAT score will nip any intellectual capability concerns in the bud.

• What kind of profiles would I get after graduating from these schools
You are already strong in the Marketing/PR domain. So you could target roles where you can use this experience.

If you intend to stick to the technology industry, it'll be easier for you to convince potential employers about the value you'd bring to their organisation right from day one. Your learning curve will be rapid. However, if you plan to move into another industry (manufacturing or service industry, for instance), your efforts will go up.

• On which aspect I need to work, so as to ensure a call from the above mentioned schools

Your post (the job profile section) covers what someone in your role is expected to do, not what you actually did. If you can confidently say that you were able to go beyond what the job description entailed, and provide concrete examples (e.g. what did all those trade shows and PR events translate into isn't clear). In your essays, Adcoms will want to know what you, as an individual, did to help make a sustainable impact on your organisation. Choose your examples well and display the excellent quality of work you've done in those 3 years.

• Is it good to target only Indian B schools as I do not have much awareness of International B school

Answered this earlier. Unless you have personal issues that stop you from exploring options abroad, do go ahead and spread your net wider.

• Can you suggest good B- schools outside India, for Marketing and Brand Mgmt

There are many that specialise in Marketing in its broad sense and several that offer you to the option of specialising in 'Product Management'. I'd need to know what your GMAT score is to recommend schools that fit your profile. Come back here when you have a firm score and we'll take this up again.

• How much Scholarship/financial aid can I get from the International B schools

If you are targeting the top schools, free funding is hard to come by. Lower ranked schools can offer you financial aid, schols or other options (GA, TA, RA work on-campus) to bring your overall cost down

• Any other valuable tip

Yes. The Ambani brothers have patched up. Shares prices expected to go up. Buy and hold.

Hope to hear from you again, buddy, when you have your impressive GMAT score. You might want to start the essay work in parallel.

Good luck for the test.

Ola Speedy-bandhu,

Let's start with your concerns first and lay them to rest before we move on to the main (and I think more important) queries.

>> My main worries are my age, the undergrad university not being famous, and the chance of being put in the Indian/IT/male category though I have a slightly different background than the typical IT guy.

- Age: I was older than you when I started my application process. Read the first post to see how that story panned out. We can't take 100% responsibility for the cruel jokes nature plays on us (no wonder aloe vera has a lot of fans). But beyond that focus on stuff that you can control. Make your profile attractive enough and people will look at you and go - 'inki twacha se inki profile ke strength ka pata bilkul nahi lagta'. We'll do some of that in this post.

- Undergrad University: Everyone isn't fortunate enough to get into an IIT. But with due respects, at the end of the day it's a technical institution (I'm ignoring their forays into management education). There's no guarantee that an extremely gifted technical guy who cracked the IIT-JEE would do equally well in the business world.

As a corollary, there's also nothing that says that guys who attended other institutions don't have what it takes to succeed in the business world. There's more to judging managerial potential than this. Adcoms know that and look for other elements from your profile before making a decision.

So all ye non-IIT junta out there...stop stressing out.

- 'being put in the Indian/IT/male category'

Be proud of your roots, man. Check out the guy from the HCL ad (who else finds the ad ridiculous, pls raise your hands). He's got the whole world at his feet. He makes I-bankers look like nincompoops. And he doesn't even use Axe Deos.

But on a serious note, again I feel this should actually work in your favour. Imagine being clubbed into a pool where you'd naturally stand out coz your profile isn't like the rest of the guys you are getting compared with.

Any more concerns that you want me to crush...do let me know. Happy to be of assistance.

With that we move on to your primary queries.

I had to read your Healthcare IT role 3 times for me to comprehend what you actually do. It is quite an unconventional role, my friend. And a pretty interesting one.

One quick tip. When you are writing your essays try to simplify the concept and use examples to make it easy for someone who's not from your industry to appreciate and understand. If you see heavy buzzwords and cliches, see if you can replace them with something that's more visual and common sense.

On the leadership topic, if you've already demonstrated this in your earlier role, that's good enough. Your current role definition is substantially different that the first one. It doesn't have the same team structure and the same mandates. If you've successfully been a leader, a technical guy, a team member, a salesman...but in different roles, I'd say that's damn good. You've shown potential and you've show flexibility. If I'm running an organisation, I'd rather have someone like you who can don many hats...rather than a self-proclaimed 'leader' who knows nothing more than throwing his weight around.

The 'Extra background info' section is really very interesting. If this is a self-driven initiative, find a way to project it properly. This is not part of your regular job-description. In my first job, I got the opportunity to be part of a similar experiment. The loosely applicable technical tag for what you are doing there is 'Corporate Venturing'. It's your idea, being funded and incubated by your current company, as opposed to an external VC team.

How you project this experience will be critical in showcasing your entrepreneurial abilities (see? another feather in the hat right there).

You've got many things to talk about (given your rich experience and your diverse exposure). Your challenge will be to pick and choose the gems from there and use them appropriately in your application. I hope you are already working on your apps.

Good luck.

Mundu saar, namaskaar!

Will start off with your last question first to eliminate the suspense.

>> 2. how much score will seal admission to a good MBA college?

No score will guarantee (or 'seal') an admission for you. If you score a perfect 800 on the test and fill up your essays with gobbledygook - disconnected, vague and ambiguous statements, that's a sure-shot recipe for rejection.

>> 1. still have to appear for GMAT but can i still get into top 10 MBA college with the profile i have ?

Will take a little more time to address this one.

On the face of it, (and also from the way your described it here) your professional experience so far has been more or less in the same league as the rest of the guys from the industry. Though you've mentioned that you are working as an ERP consultant (MM module etc), I'm not sure if you are a technical expert or a functional expert. Is your knowledge about Logistics processes transferrable to other industries or is it strongly tied to the automobile industry?

Also not to sure of what you want to do after jumping in the air during graduation ceremony of a top-school and tossing the graduation hat high in the air for your proud family to capture the Kodak moment. Do you want to continue in the ERP consultants role or move on to something else?

Ok. Flashback mode now. I worked for PwC as well (one point on basic hygiene before we move on. PricewaterhouseCoopers is a long name no doubt but you gotta get the name of your employer right, my friend). The good thing about the firm, irrespective of your role there (and the scandals for which it has been in the news lately), is the fact that it's known worldwide as a 'business' consulting firm - with Audit, Tax, Advisory services. I positioned myself in a way that I wasn't competing head-on with the IT heavyweights.

Your uniqueness can come from several areas - your qualification, the companies that you've worked for (manufacturing, professional services), your functional expertise (Logistics) and your current role (ERP is more about business than about technology).

Now the fun begins. You have all the basic ingredients. Take all the points above and create a recipe that's mouthwatering for the Adcoms.

Don't put off working on your essays till August. Work on your GMAT. But also start working on the basic essay topics. After you get a solid GMAT score, you can hit the ground running.

Chak de phatte, bro. Come back if you need inputs while you are working on that dhinchak application.

If you've wondered why our free evaluations on this thread have been a little slow, it's because we've been working hard behind the scenes to get testimonials like the one below. This one's from the MCB Facebook page:

"I would like to comment on my experience with Sameer & MBA Crystal Ball:

After reading the business week forum, I decided to use the MBA Crystal Ball report for evaluating my profile. At the moment, I was in the middle of my application, having applied to a few stretch schools and getting rejects. The report was extremely useful in terms of understanding my profile & giving me feedback about my stretch, reach & safe schools. One thing to note was that the advice was biased towards getting the candidate to the best school possible as opposed to the usual advice from consultants who try to play safe and never ask candidates to go for the stars.

After getting an interview call from one of my stretch schools, I contacted Sameer for a mock interview. Again, Sameer took the time to read all my essays & customized the interview to make very realistic. This was a good experience and a major confidence booster. I ended up getting an admit from that stretch school and am going to matriculate this fall!

A big thanks to Sameer & MBA Crystal Ball!"

Always good to get positive feedback from those who've battled against the odds to get into the top schools of their choice. Hope we have many more stories like this over the coming months.

rnemani-ji namaste,


We had been having trouble with our hosting servers for quite a while. I read your comment and got our website moved on to a new server. We lost the annual hosting charges that we had paid the earlier company. Talk about taking feedback seriously

Pls allow me 30 seconds to to vent my spleen and also attempt to package it in the form of advice. For anyone planning to host their new websites on a dependable, reliable server, my recommendation - stay away from Godaddy.com. For domain registrations, they are ok. For hosting, there are far better ones.
Aah! Frustration released. I feel light now. Let's get back to the main topic of this post.


Successful entrepreneurs are cool! But failed entrepreneurs who don't give up, rock big time. So hats off to you for hanging in there.


Haanji. If you think the current score doesn't reflect your potential, then I'd give it another try. Been a while since you spent time in a class, you could use your score to emphasise your kick-a$$ mental processing capabilities.


Ok. So here comes our story. Last season, we helped a candidate with his essays (point to be noted, as we'll come back to this) for the same two schools for the same Exec MBA programs. He didn't get into either one (honest transparent disclosure at the risk of adversely impacting our business). He got feedback from both and that's why I bring this up.

Berkeley gave him the feedback, basically pointing a finger at two things - one point highlighted in his recos and another parameter relating to his personal data. For confidentiality reasons, I can't get into the details. As we only had access to his essays, we had no clue what would go in the rest of the application till he gave us a post-facto update.

Wharton actually recommended that he re-apply and he'd have a very strong chance of getting an offer. The competition within his pool last year was intense.

These situations are always tricky as we're not sure if we should be happy that the essays were good or sad because the candidate didn't get into the program of his choice.


Interesting. I'd like to know more about this. If you don't want to share your stories here, we can continue the interaction offline. Maybe we can jointly do some analysis of the possible reasons (no charge for non-MBA related brainstorming, sir, just doing this out of personal interest). For all you know, it might be something that an expensive Exec MBA degree may or may not not help you fix.

Kem chho, Hiren bhai.


That's a common trap many applicants fall into. Going purely by the brand without doing an indepth research on whether the degree or diploma or certificate is going to add any value to their professional life. We aren't just talking about Indian institutions. This also applies to international business schools that offer easier alternatives for those who can't get into their flagship programs. It's targetted at people who don't mind paying a small fortune to get the established brands on the CV. But recruiters in the corporate world are aware of the difference.

So for everyone else reading this post, please do talk to people who've taken up the course before you do. See what they have to say and then sign up only when you are convinced.


I'm curious now, sirji. Which program was this? Send me a PM if you don't want to reveal it here. If it was a heavyweight, then you'd be able to use this to your advantage in your essays.


I don't think that's a weakness. And you've cited the right reason for it.


Developing one isn't a bad idea as it'll be a good way to add a new dimension to your daily or weekly routine. Select something that you are genuinely interested in. But don't do it just for the sake of your business school application. Don't think you can outwit the Adcoms. Woh log Alibaug se nahi aaye hain (as you are from Mumbai I assume you know what that phrase means).

Just a few months before submitting your MBA apps, it will look strange if you suddenly cultivated an immense interest in saving the world by joining an NGO or learning a new language or playing the Veena...we are talking about the stringed variety, not the Big Boss artist who goes 'Jee Salman-ji' with a seductive pout every Friday.


As a very broad answer, I'd say non-US. But the GMAT range we are talking about right now starts at 640 and goes all the way beyond 700. So let's continue with this once you have a concrete score in hand. Then maybe the MCB report will be a good option to think about.


Don't make generalised assumptions about schools. The results will catch you unawares. Whether you are aiming for European or American schools, you will be competing with apni public from India (with dhansoo experience anyway). So see how you can build an application that is strong enough to tackle competition from apne deshvaasi as well as pardesi junta.

If you want to go for 1-year program, do so. Decide on the end objective first and then take a call.

Here's a dhinchak analogy to highlight the futility of the logic you are currently proposing. If you are interested in going from Mumbai to Delhi, you won't buy a ticket to Thiruvananthapuram just because the air-tickets on that sector are easier to obtain, right?


Most of the good schools that are strong in marketing would require a competitive GMAT score. So, can we please club this one along with query 1?


Based on the level of preparation and the mock-test scores, you should get an idea of where your true score lies. After enough prep if you think you can crack the 700 barrier, I'd suggest waiting rather than rushing in an application with a considerably lower score.


Some industries and companies are particular about age. And business schools might be concerned if they view your transition strategy as being impractical. So use your essays to convince them that your plan is well-thought out and you are fully aware of what you are getting into.

I've known people who've shattered these general conceptions to move into very competitive industries when they were on the wrong side of 30. So it's all in the execution sirji. The non-IT background gives you a head-start, but what will you do after triggering the initial interest from Adcom is more important.

Hi Sameer!!
Please evaluate my profile & give guidance on how I should put my profile across o get an admission in my desired B-Schools....
Eagerly awaiting for your positive response!!!

Hey Mudit,

When it comes to PhD degrees, my knowledge isn't as diverse or indepth as it is for MBA programs. But let me share my thoughts based on my interactions with others who've been pursuing this.

At the PhD level, Strategic Management as an area of specialisation is a pretty competitive domain to get into. Despite the strong academic angle to the course, it still has a lot of market value beyond academic roles. Top-tier management consulting firms pick up Strat mgmt grads from the best schools.

If your long terms plans are to break into the top tier Indian academia, you could check out the IIMs or ISB for their doctoral programs. But even there, the competition for Strategy Mgmt is tough.

With international PhD programs, I know people who've taken a 2-step approach to PhD, by taking up a Masters degree (including MBA) in the university of their choice and then moving on to the PhD once they have a better understanding of the opportunities that the university has to offer.

If you can get into a top PhD program directly, nothing like it.

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The best things in life are free (if not freely downloadable)! Air, happiness, peace of mind. Even before Beyond The MBA Hype got released, guys have been searching on Google for a free pdf download of the book. Maybe a primary indication of the level of interest in the book... read more

DG sir, I haven't forgotten your queries Just been a little busy.


More than enough time in that case.


Can I answer this one in a slightly convoluted mannner, by sharing the thoughts of someone from another discussion forum? Check out the next post.

We just got a sign-up from a (soon-to-be) husband-wife pair. And I was asking them if it would be a better idea to stagger the MBA plans, so the financing and risk aspects can be better managed. But for personal reasons, they've decided to apply together.

I think your approach is a less risky one in comparsion.


I like your profile and your husband's as well. Reminds me of someone we helped 2 years back. He had a finance background (with similar responsibilities and experience level), plus an MBA from India.

He got admits to multiple schools (in the Us and outside) and took up one which offered him a scholarship. He now works in an international (non-US) private equity fund.


When are you both taking the test? Or is that also open for now?

Do you want to reach out offline [info at mbacrystalball dot com], so we can get dig a little more. There's time for R2 apps, but I'd like to highlight some risks that you are taking with your current strategy.

It's peak time for Round 1 apps. But if needed we could get into a quick call. You and hubby dear can join in together if you have a speaker phone at home (that's what the other couple used to do).

Been away for a while from these forums as it's peak season right now.


Yup, good decision. Your 6.5 yrs have plenty to talk about. So ok to pull the final nail in the test prep coffin and move on.


How would this be different from what you are already doing?


Excellent. Wish him luck from the MBA Crystal Ball team. Ask him if he'd like to share his application story on our blog. A little limelight won't hurt.


If your aim is to study in Europe, then you've covered all the good schools. Stop worrying about chances and just try to make your apps as strong as possible. Your partner should be able to review your apps and help out in making it super-strong.

Good luck.

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They do a fantastic job in explaining the brilliant entrepreneurial idea they have in mind, the skills & resources need to execute that plan and how an MBA will provide them with the perfect platform to launch their startup in technology, healthcare, education or any of the other ‘sunrise’ sectors. So far, so good.

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Devarshi,

A high GMAT will help. You've got a First class which would be fine for most schools and may not be the primary cause of a ding (if at all that's the result). You'd still be competing with others who have stronger GPAs and GMATs and work experience.

So aim for that high GMAT, by all means. But do focus on the real world accomplishments that are better indicators of your managerial and leadership potential.