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At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a

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At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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06 Aug 2010, 07:01
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At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a presentation on the numerous challenges facing the company, including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip.

A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patentinfringement suit and the declining sales for

B. which includes the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and declining sales of

C. included among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patentinfringement suit as well as a decline in sales for

D. among them the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the decline in sales of

E. among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as the decline in sales for

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Source: Some other forum
I do not agree with the official answer
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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06 Aug 2010, 07:57
It should be C ...How is it B? How come "Challenges which includes" be correct? Or is it that the presentation included 'the threat....' ?Please someone clarify

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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06 Aug 2010, 08:04
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A small correction rlevochkin - The OA is D and not B. Kindly refer to the below Manhattan Gmat forum link for more explanations:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/ann ... t7688.html

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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06 Aug 2010, 09:15
I got it wrong ...C

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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06 Aug 2010, 09:15
Sorry, it was a kinda crappy source I got this question from. I wanted to know the reasoning to it. Big TX.
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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06 Aug 2010, 12:14
The correct answer is D...
And the correct idiom is "sales of"
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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07 Aug 2010, 16:00
none of them are right, this is just crap

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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03 Nov 2012, 13:01
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At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a presentation on the numerous challenges facing the company, including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent infringement suit and the declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for
B. which includes the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and declining sales of
C. included among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as a decline in sales for
D. among them the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the decline in sales of
E. among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as the decline in sales for

Can some one explain what type of modifier is used in the correct option and some other usages of this type modifier.
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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03 Nov 2012, 13:29
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AbhiJ wrote:
At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a presentation on the numerous challenges facing the company, including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent infringement suit and the declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for WE CANT USE PARTICIPLE MODIFIERS WITH COMMA
B. which includes the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and declining sales of WHICH ILLOGICALY MODIFIES COMPANY.
C. included among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as a decline in sales for A SUIT CANT THREATEN YOU BUT YOU CAN FACE THE THREAT OF A SUIT.
D. among them the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the decline in sales of ABSLOUTELY CORRECT. THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE PHRASE.
E. among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as the decline in sales for A SUIT CANT THREATEN YOU BUT YOU CAN FACE THE THREAT OF A SUIT.

Can some one explain what type of modifier is used in the correct option and some other usages of this type modifier.

This type of modifier is called Absolute phrase. This type of phrase consists of noun and noun modifier and modifies a whole clause or sentence. An absolute phrase can't stand alone as a sentence, but often expresses an additional thought.
An absolute phrase is separated from the main clause by a comma; it may come before or after that main clause.
It is usually asked at 720+ level.

i)Sound can travel through water for enormous distances,
its acoustic energy prevented from dissipating by boundaries in the ocean created by water layers of different temperatures and densities.
ii) More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20% of the worlds fresh water, more than all of the North American Great Lakes combined.

Hope that helps
-s
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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04 Nov 2012, 06:39
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AbhiJ wrote:
At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a presentation on the numerous challenges facing the company, including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent infringement suit and the declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for
B. which includes the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and declining sales of
C. included among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as a decline in sales for
D. among them the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the decline in sales of
E. among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as the decline in sales for

Can some one explain what type of modifier is used in the correct option and some other usages of this type modifier.

I just wanted to add some thoughts on this SC question.

1st of all this questions has 3:2 split...if you look closely...at the end you have sales for and sales of...the correct expression is sales of
that leaves us with 2 options, which is B & D. If you examine carefully...in option B the two entities are not parallel hence it is not correct. A noun (the threat of a rival’s multibillion) and participle (declining sales).Participles can be made parallel with (present, past and adjectives).
Now coming to the "Including" Modifier.. any verb(ing) modifier can be used in two context (refer to e-gmat free videos on SC). ,verb(ing) refers/modifies the subject and not the immediate noun preceding it.
e.g. Joe killed the snake, using the stick.
Here the verb(ing) refers to subject Joe who used the stick. So in the sentence posted by you, meaning wise the including refers to the subject that is Investors, which is not the intended meaning.
Hope this clarifies all your questions on "ing" modifiers.
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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04 Nov 2012, 06:55
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I am not sure that the modifier in option D is an absolute phrase. Absolute phrase do not start with a preposition - among.
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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04 Nov 2012, 07:29
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If you have the Manhattan Sentence Correction Strategy guide, the Advanced section (at the end of the book) has the answer to your question. There are 4 exceptions to NOUN Modifiers including the one that is used here

If a phrase is important to a sentence and can not be placed anywhere else in the sentence then the modifier is not required to touch the noun being modified "Challenges" (in this case)

Normally your modifier should touch "challenges" but you cant separate "facing the company" so your modifier is now modifying the noun" challenges facing the company"

Any answer that has "included" and "among" is unnecessarily repetitive

Included already incorporated "among" so you need only one of those 2 words.

Option A and C are out

"Which" refers to the immediately preceding noun
So B is out

You are left with D and E

But i think all you wanted was the clarification on the modifier.

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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06 Nov 2012, 15:22
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A. Including <-> Among them = redundancy

B. Includes does not agree in number with Challenges

C. Included <-> Among these = redundancy, these

E. These, Sales for is unidiomatic

These as a pronoun is usually wrong and should be a red flag.

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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08 Nov 2012, 21:16
I used Manhantan SC Guide 5th, but do not see advanced section of the book.

I see the "pronoun and modifier" section.

the where do the 4 kinds of noun modifier you mention appear? pls, advise
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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08 Nov 2012, 23:29
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thangvietnam wrote:
I used Manhantan SC Guide 5th, but do not see advanced section of the book.

I see the "pronoun and modifier" section.

the where do the 4 kinds of noun modifier you mention appear? pls, advise

Absolute phrase- pg 242
The 4 exceptions of noun modifiers pg 238.
Hope that helps.
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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23 Jul 2014, 14:04
Marcab wrote:
AbhiJ wrote:
At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a presentation on the numerous challenges facing the company, including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent infringement suit and the declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for [color=#fff200]WE CANT USE PARTICIPLE MODIFIERS WITH COMMA[/color]

Can someone explain this point?
i looked in the Mgmat guide but i didnt find anything explaining it..

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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25 Jul 2014, 03:12
oss198 wrote:
Marcab wrote:
AbhiJ wrote:
At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a presentation on the numerous challenges facing the company, including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent infringement suit and the declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for [color=#fff200]WE CANT USE PARTICIPLE MODIFIERS WITH COMMA[/color]

Can someone explain this point?
i looked in the Mgmat guide but i didnt find anything explaining it..

Participle modifiers can be used after a comma to modify the preceding clause. No doubts about this. I think the problem here is that the subject of the preceding clause "investors"doesn't make perfect sense with the modifier, because it would mean the investors included the two issues ("threat" and "declining sales") in the list of threats themselves. It is not the implied anywhere in the original sentence. Apart from that issue, the sentence has an obvious problem with "declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip".

Just my humble opinion , I could be wrong

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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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09 Aug 2014, 11:53
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AbhiJ wrote:
At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a presentation on the numerous challenges facing the company, including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent infringement suit and the declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for
B. which includes the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and declining sales of
C. included among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as a decline in sales for
D. among them the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the decline in sales of
E. among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as the decline in sales for

Can some one explain what type of modifier is used in the correct option and some other usages of this type modifier.

Meaning : At the annual SHM investors heard numerous challenges. Among those challenges were two challenges : threat from a rival's MDPI and decline in sales of company's powerful microprocessor chip.

verbing modifier should modify the preceding clause and should make sense with the subject of the preceding clause. Here including modifies the challenges and doesn't fit well with "investors" subject of the preceding clause.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for
Rejecting the option A for the above reason and also sales of instead of "for".

B. which includes the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and declining sales of
which should replace challenges and includes has SV issue

C. included among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as a decline in sales for
included should modify the closest noun "challenges" that is correct. "included among these" construction doesn't seem correct. sales of should be used instead of "for".

D. among them the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the decline in sales of
This looks the least of the devil.

E. among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as the decline in sales for
"sales for" is the issue.

Doubts:
1) Any issue in "among them" and "among these"?
2) them should refer to the animate pronouns. Isn't it?
3) Any other errors?
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Re: At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a [#permalink]

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11 Aug 2014, 12:23
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kinjiGC wrote:
AbhiJ wrote:
At the annual stockholders meeting, investors heard a presentation on the numerous challenges facing the company, including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent infringement suit and the declining sales for the company’s powerful microprocessor chip.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for
B. which includes the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and declining sales of
C. included among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as a decline in sales for
D. among them the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the decline in sales of
E. among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as the decline in sales for

Can some one explain what type of modifier is used in the correct option and some other usages of this type modifier.

Meaning : At the annual SHM investors heard numerous challenges. Among those challenges were two challenges : threat from a rival's MDPI and decline in sales of company's powerful microprocessor chip.

verbing modifier should modify the preceding clause and should make sense with the subject of the preceding clause. Here including modifies the challenges and doesn't fit well with "investors" subject of the preceding clause.
A. including among them the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the declining sales for
Rejecting the option A for the above reason and also sales of instead of "for".

B. which includes the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and declining sales of
which should replace challenges and includes has SV issue

C. included among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as a decline in sales for
included should modify the closest noun "challenges" that is correct. "included among these" construction doesn't seem correct. sales of should be used instead of "for".

D. among them the threat of a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit and the decline in sales of
This looks the least of the devil.

E. among these the threat from a rival’s multibillion-dollar patent-infringement suit as well as the decline in sales for
"sales for" is the issue.

Doubts:
1) Any issue in "among them" and "among these"?
2) them should refer to the animate pronouns. Isn't it?
3) Any other errors?

Hi kinjiGC,

Thanks for posting your doubt here.

It is true that "comma + verb-ing modifier" modifies the preceding action and must make sense with the doer of the modified action. However, "including" is an exception to this rule. Preceded or not preceded by a comma, "including" ALWAYS modifies a noun entity. In this sentence, "including" modifies "the numerous challenges" because what follows "including" are some of the challenges that the company faced.

Hence, Choice A is not incorrect from "comma + including". It is incorrect, as you have already mentioned, for the use of preposition "for" after "the declining sales" and use of preposition "from" after "threat". The correct preposition in the context of this sentence will be "threat of".

Choice B - Again, there is no problem with the modification of "which" here because "facing the company" is a noun modifier that modifies "the numerous challenges" and cannot be placed anywhere. So "which" can jump over this modifier and correctly modify "challenges". But yes, singular Verb "includes" does not agrre in number with plural Subject "challenges".

Choice C: Again, "included" in this choice is not incorrect for the same reason already explained in Choice B. "these" is demonstrative pronoun and must be followed by a noun. Per the context of the sentence, "these" should be followed by "challenges". But it is not. Hence, use of "these" is incorrect. This choice also repeats both teh incorrect prepositions of Choice A.

Choice D: This choice is correct. Here, "among them...." is a Noun Modifier that correctly modifies "the numerous challenges". Note that "them" can be used to refer to animate as well as inanimate objects.

Choice E: This Choice repeats the "these" error of Choice C and the preposition errors of Choice A.

All your doubts have been addressed in the analysis here. Please study them well, compare it to your analysis, and understand what all you possibly missed in your analysis.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
SJ
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